Grandpappy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Even pyromancers in rift and fire wizards in warhammer didn't have stealth, just got out of a super fun game where an operative decided to camp me in spawn in huttball so I couldn't even get a single medal, he just sat outside my spawn and waited for me. I didn't even know the guy, but I could literally do nothing to him before I was killed in his 5 second knockdown out of stealth. Good balance bioware, you made rift and warhammer look good. Agreed - whoever designed the OP's must play one in game. I'm no slouch in PVP and have some expertise gear and I routinely get killed before the knockdown is over. Excuse me...I think I'll go roll an OP now before the nerf bat hits Edited January 17, 2012 by Grandpappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijthae Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 got %9 expertise , it takes 5 seconds for an operative to kill me in 2 cc if im not tank speced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neurosisxeno Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 got %9 expertise , it takes 5 seconds for an operative to kill me in 2 cc if im not tank speced. What 2 CC abilities? Because the big hit they have and Knockdown fills resolve, so I'm DYING to know what the second one is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muscarine Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The sole fact that the operative/smuggler class forces you to save your cc breaker / force cloak (in my case) in case they attack you screws balance. Dedicating most of the survivability part of your build and saving it for a single foe because you may get 3 shot'd otherwise is not defendable at all. Leaves you naked and under too much constant pressure, even if you don't act as a stupid 1v1'er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhaas Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_aug Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) This post made me laugh, hard. This has nothing to do with being an operative or not, only facts matters. Fact is: With 500+ expertise, you still drop to 30-40% hp during the knockdown (2s) vs average operative if you don't have your trinket up. This damage is completely unavoidable, no matter what you do. You can be the best pgm in the world you will still lose more than half your life in 2s by any keyboard turner playing a decently geared operative. There is nothing to argue, nothing to defend, this simple fact is enough to prove imbalance and anyone stating this is normal behavior has absolutely no idea what a good gameplay and a good balance class are. Period. Fact is: I routinely do less than 5k TOTAL DAMAGE through 3 attacks on my opener. I regularly hit for 1500 on Hidden Strike and ~1k on backstab, shiv, and lacerate. Hell, sometimes I hit lvl 15's for less than 2K (with hidden strike). Do I also hit for 10k+ sometimes through that combo? Yep. Not even close to every time though. It's balanced. You only remember the times you get killed though. And I have 411 expertise by the way. The simple fact is that all the people who don't play operative don't have a clue. They only remember when they get destroyed with 5K openers and are dead before the stun is over. They don't even notice the times they are carrying the ball and an operative opens on them for 1k damage and no knockdown because their resolve bar was already full. I posted videos and only a few people even watched/commented on them. It showed me doing massive damage as well as COMPLETE CRAP damage throughout hours of warzones. It also showed me getting caught by other operatives and then proceeding to kill them. Everyone needs to stop whining and start playing. Edited January 17, 2012 by big_aug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhaas Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Aren't all of you ashamed to be doing the exact same thing people were doing in regards to Rogues? Rogues were fine and all of you babies needed to L2P, and it's exactly the same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomnipotent Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 hes doing exactly what they are designed to do. Why were you rushing out without help, why were you not working with team ? I know... because you were rambo'ing it ... as usual in BG farming. This crusade you people are on, is so silly. Your hoping that posting post after post after post, an making each consecutive one more dramatic than the last will force bioware to give you what you want. Then you will move onto next class.... Beats me why you are on a pvp server in first place. You will notice a common thread to these complaints, its all done in BG farming. World pvp this doesn't happen. This argument always confuses me. Every time somebody defends their class with "bring your team" I just want to say, where's your team? Oh? you don't need one? Oh ok, guess not needing a team to do your job when everyone else does, isn't overpowered. Derp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Aren't all of you ashamed to be doing the exact same thing people were doing in regards to Rogues? Rogues were fine and all of you babies needed to L2P, and it's exactly the same here. At least rogues do not have ambush+cheap shot+garrote combined in one shot ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqsd Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Fact is: I routinely do less than 5k TOTAL DAMAGE through 3 attacks on my opener. I regularly hit for 1500 on Hidden Strike and ~1k on backstab, shiv, and lacerate. Hell, sometimes I hit lvl 15's for less than 2K (with hidden strike). Do I also hit for 10k+ sometimes through that combo? Yep. Not even close to every time though. It's balanced. You only remember the times you get killed though. And I have 411 expertise by the way. The simple fact is that all the people who don't play operative don't have a clue. They only remember when they get destroyed with 5K openers and are dead before the stun is over. They don't even notice the times they are carrying the ball and an operative opens on them for 1k damage and no knockdown because their resolve bar was already full. I posted videos and only a few people even watched/commented on them. It showed me doing massive damage as well as COMPLETE CRAP damage throughout hours of warzones. It also showed me getting caught by other operatives and then proceeding to kill them. Everyone needs to stop whining and start playing. I completely don't care if 10k combos during opener only happens once every full moon, can't you understand it should'nt happen at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 And, i open on a sroc once, didnt even break his bubble in a knockdown, so yes nerf opratives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I completely don't care if 10k combos during opener only happens once every full moon, can't you understand it should'nt happen at all? ITS BECAUSE OF BUFF STACKING/STIMS, do you need a spoon up ur arse with that info to finally get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqsd Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 ITS BECAUSE OF BUFF STACKING/STIMS, do you need a spoon up ur arse with that info to finally get it? Rofl, no, it's not. No other class can do such damage with absolutely no setup, even with full biochem, not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoslegionX Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 And, i open on a sroc once, didnt even break his bubble in a knockdown, so yes nerf opratives! lol realy u dont hit to hard then cause ive had ops break my sheild with 1 strike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewareplayer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Rofl, no, it's not. No other class can do such damage with absolutely no setup, even with full biochem, not even close. yes other classes can now stop crying. If a jugger charges you, foce crushes and then hits you for 8k+ with Smash, then you would be crying just as much. On top of that he isnt as squishy as a OP, and he can do it twice in 9 seconds. Its the adrenal + expertise, stop crying about operatives. Oh and i play Jugger not OP, before someone is telling me im trying to protect my class. Theres only one thing that needs looking at in pvp, that is Merc/commando healers who are guarded. Thats the only thing in Swtor pvp thats really unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Juggs aren't going to do 8K smash, most is 6.5K and like you said, that's all buffed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sointu Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I was once rolling over enemy team with my juggernaut, but then I took vibroknife to the knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I am a full champion Mara. Operatives on my server crit me for 4500 unstealthed with just their regular backstab, please tell me how that is at all balanced. Edited January 17, 2012 by JustinxDuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqsd Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) yes other classes can now stop crying. If a jugger charges you, foce crushes and then hits you for 8k+ with Smash, then you would be crying just as much. On top of that he isnt as squishy as a OP, and he can do it twice in 9 seconds. Its the adrenal + expertise, stop crying about operatives. Oh and i play Jugger not OP, before someone is telling me im trying to protect my class. Theres only one thing that needs looking at in pvp, that is Merc/commando healers who are guarded. Thats the only thing in Swtor pvp thats really unbalanced. First, juggs won't hit me for 8k, not even close. Actually they are lucky if they hit me for half, if i let them to. Second, Juggs have to SETUP something BEFORE doing their broken aoe, so i CAN COUNTER this because i can see it coming. Scoundrels just pop from stealth, CC you and take 2/3 of your half bar by just doing "1-2" while you can do absolutely nothing. There is no skill involved, no clever gameplay, no good or bad player, just broken maths which needs to be fixed ASAP. Edited January 17, 2012 by zqsd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewareplayer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) First, juggs won't hit me for 8k, not even close. Actually they are lucky if they hit me for half, if i let them to. Second, Juggs have to SETUP something BEFORE doing their broken aoe, so i CAN COUNTER this because i can see it coming. Scoundrels just pop from stealth, CC you and take 2/3 of your half bar by just doing "1-2" while you can do absolutely nothing. There is no skill involved, no clever gameplay, no good or bad player, just broken maths which needs to be fixed ASAP. He has to be in stealth, and be positioned behind you, which depending on where you are can be a quite a runway. Thats just as much "setting up" as me pressing charge and crush, which is pressing 2 buttons, that dont require skill either. Juggs aren't going to do 8K smash, most is 6.5K and like you said, that's all buffed up. if you have no clue then just shut the **** up man. I had hits off up to 6,7k WITHOUT adrenals and on 50 people, and only 1 expertise buff. Seriously why do you open your mouth if you have no clue whatsover? Edited January 17, 2012 by Freewareplayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 He has to be in stealth, and be positioned behind you, which depending on where you are can be a quite a runway. Thats just as much "setting up" as me pressing charge and crush, which is pressing 2 buttons, that dont require skill either. if you have no clue then just shut the **** up man. I had hits off up to 6,7k WITHOUT adrenals and on 50 people, and only 1 expertise buff. Seriously why do you open your mouth if you have no clue whatsover? 6.7k? They must have no expertise. I rarely break 5k on 50s on my Mara and I'm not biochem, all I use is a power relic and the pvp expertise stim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoslegionX Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 yes ops are hard to beat welcome to mmos there is always 1 or 2 classes that is realy good at 1 on 1 combat every one wants to be that class get used to it screaming nerf all the time dosent help... I will say this tho if any class needs to be buffed its snipers they have it the worst no mobility at all and have to crouch in order to use half there moves is ridiculas they are sitting ducks. ( i dont play a sniper either for all those who will **** on me and say oh must be a sniper )this is just from playing pvp games and noticing them. I may be wrong but i dont think i am.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freewareplayer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 6.7k? They must have no expertise. I rarely break 5k on 50s on my Mara and I'm not biochem, all I use is a power relic and the pvp expertise stim. How much is 5k + 30 %? Exactly 6,5k !!!! Bing Your a Marauder your smashes do 30 % less damage than a full dps jugg. So you are confirming my post. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) LOL!! So I'm on my 26 Gunslinger and I get attacked by a 50 Operative. He opens for 40% of my HP on a single hit. As soon as I go face down I hit my CC breaker and start running. He takes another 20% of my HP. I'm moving before the animation of my character being face down has even caught up. Long story short, I put an arrow in his knee and kited him. A bunch of my teammates and myself wiped him out. He had no where to run and couldn't get away. So, why is it that all you 50s can't do the same? Because you're terrible at PvP. That's why. Your reactions are slow, you're bad with your characters, you're mindless in your attacks and even worse with your defenses. MAN..I CANNOT WAIT FOR 50 BRACKET PVP!! 90% of you 50s are about to find out that it's not Operatives/Scoundrels...it's EVERY CLASS in the game that's clowning you. ...because you suck. Edited January 17, 2012 by Ossos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinxDuff Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 How much is 5k + 30 %? Exactly 6,5k !!!! Bing Your a Marauder your smashes do 30 % less damage than a full dps jugg. So you are confirming my post. Thank you. Didn't realize you were a Jugg. Juggs never beat my damage or me 1v1 on my server so I am content with Mara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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