Taloraan Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hey all, just had a question for the DPSers out there. Here's the situation: Basically, a guildmate and I have been our guilds' Main and Offtanks for several years and have recently discovered that you will only need 1 tank for Operations or so it seems. So, for the first time in a good while, I chose to DPS. Problem being, I'm a 50 Jugg AC (Vengeance spec) and have heard their DPS isn't up to par with the other DPS ACs (which I'm fine with since Juggs are also able to tank). So, ultimately, I was wondering if Juggs can pull their weight in Hardmode+ content DPS wise or if I'm gimping the guild in the long run. Thanks for reading and thanks for the feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedTony Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 get rid of the the dps jug man its not worth it. Truth is the vengeance jug is only slightly more powerful than the immortal jug while the immortal jug's survivability is A LOT better than the vengeance survivability. Trust me, I vengeance spec'd for 40 levels and went to immortal and was pissed how unbalanced vengeance was. The dev's need to fix it but untill than if u really wanna melee dps, do marauder or assassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varus_Praetor Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I haven't tried Immortal spec yet, but I grew so frustrated with Vengeance that I rerolled a couple of other characters to see if it was just the difficulty of the game. Turns out that while SWTOR is a bit harder than other MMO's I've tried, Jugg dps is woefully behind other classes, particularly at low levels. Both my BH and Sorc eat mobs and end fights with almost full health as opposed to my Jugg. Since you're level 50 and have already experienced the amazing SW story, I'd strongly suggest you try one of the other DPS classes. BH is powerful, but gets very spammy as Arsenal spec. Sorc hybrid madness build puts out insane dps, but is extremely spammy....think Arcane Mage from WoW. I have no Sniper experience, but everyone I talk to says they appear to be #1 dps right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avia Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Heh, you'll note that it seems to be mostly snipers that say that they are #1 dps. The differences aren't that extreme between most classes, it really depends on the person behind the character. I have noticed that Juggernauts as a class seem to be behind most others though (both in terms of tanking/threat generation, as well as raw dps output, regardless of spec). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedTony Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I haven't tried Immortal spec yet, but I grew so frustrated with Vengeance that I rerolled a couple of other characters to see if it was just the difficulty of the game. Turns out that while SWTOR is a bit harder than other MMO's I've tried, Jugg dps is woefully behind other classes, particularly at low levels. Both my BH and Sorc eat mobs and end fights with almost full health as opposed to my Jugg. Since you're level 50 and have already experienced the amazing SW story, I'd strongly suggest you try one of the other DPS classes. BH is powerful, but gets very spammy as Arsenal spec. Sorc hybrid madness build puts out insane dps, but is extremely spammy....think Arcane Mage from WoW. I have no Sniper experience, but everyone I talk to says they appear to be #1 dps right now. funny you should say that cuz i've been recently using my marauder character and right now i just hit level 15 with my character and WOW the dps output is rediculous. Even tho im only a 15, i can still notice a huge difference in dps, im only mad that i didnt use the marauder sooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I have been leveling a jugg in vengeance spec with vette as companion, i am only lvl 27 but i dont seem to have any problem with it. I leveled an operative as healer before, so the juggernaut vengeance levels faster than that, but i cant compare it to another dps class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erzsebet Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Hey all, just had a question for the DPSers out there. Here's the situation: Basically, a guildmate and I have been our guilds' Main and Offtanks for several years and have recently discovered that you will only need 1 tank for Operations or so it seems. So, for the first time in a good while, I chose to DPS. Problem being, I'm a 50 Jugg AC (Vengeance spec) and have heard their DPS isn't up to par with the other DPS ACs (which I'm fine with since Juggs are also able to tank). So, ultimately, I was wondering if Juggs can pull their weight in Hardmode+ content DPS wise or if I'm gimping the guild in the long run. Thanks for reading and thanks for the feedback! Yes absolutely i simply love the vengeance tree, everyone who thinks it isnt all that, either sucks or isnt 50 or just is really bad with it. I do HM's and ops, vengeance is amazing dps. Also to the whole maurader thing, i think both are viable, but personally i seem to beat every single maurader i come across or dps with. And ive played both as i love melee dps, i prefer vengeance. Edited January 19, 2012 by erzsebet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goare Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Tanked the new instance tonight (hardmode) as an 8/31/2 Guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damukag Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Give Rage a try before you reroll. It's been ignored for PvE as the 'PvP tree' but I've seen some Rage Juggs killing things very very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thankyjack Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 We know almost nothing about comparable dps because we have no combat logs. The game was designed so that dps of all classes is within 5%. So, at worst, you will be 5% behind other melee classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowingzero Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Before the game launched, people all over these forums were talking about how Vigilance/Vengeance was one of the top DPS in the game. Now people are saying that it's one of the worst. When there have been absolutely no changes. It's funny how internet info works when there's a lack of actual information (i.e. combat logs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahmu Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) The only real way to compare dps atm in this game, is the "council" boss in EV, where everyone has to 1v1 against an mob. As main juggernaut dps in the guild, I always kill my add first. The other DPS in the guild are sorcerers and bounty hunters, so I have no idea how other melee are performing, but my dps seems to be above average compared to the ranged. Edited January 20, 2012 by Tahmu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergulch Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The game was designed so that dps of all classes is within 5%. Do you have a source for this? (not trolling) I had even level Jugg and Marauder. (40 ish, twinked out gear) Jugg was spec'd DPS and couldn't even compare to my Marauder, the Marauder kills WAY WAY faster than a DPS spec'd Jugg it's not even funny. 5%? I'm willing to bet it's more like 30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hxxr Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Comparing my rather new level 50 Vengeance Juggernaut's damage to what my Merc did back then, the damage is looking quite good. But looking just at the set bonuses I already know that with added gear the Jugger would stay behind other classes. And melee's are not as well received (for reasons I do not agree with) in raids, so the offensive warrior slot will go to a Marauder. No matter how much more/less damage he would do, Berserk outweights it anyway. So despite the very beatiful animation and solid damage of the Vengeance tree, if there's ever a chance to respec your AC I'll get myself a Marauder. :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoR Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As others have said, there's really no way to know for sure what the exact comparison between others dps is right now. HOWEVER Guilds with Vengeance Jugs or Vigilance Knights are doing just fine in progression; so I think it would be really cynical to say that you'd be "gimping" your group by continuing to play it. Unless you're in the #1 guild in the world and willing to play enough to have multiple characters all geared out so that you can swap out any time a particular encounter comes up that favors a certain class, or when Bioware decides to nerf the class you're playing, then I think making decisions based on a min/maxing mentality is frivolous. Encounters aren't designed to be beaten only by the razor's edge while entire guilds are min/maxing and playing perfectly. I think your time would be better spent just trying to improve your current dps/utility as long as you actually like playing your Jug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altharas Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Don't listen to anyone who isn't 50, the only problem with Vengeance/Vigilance specs is the skill progression. You have to wait until 30 to get a move that does any sort of damage (Overhead Slash) and 40 to get a relatively complete rotation. Hell, you don't get your execute until 46. The only damage meters I've been able to use have been warzones and standstill duels with friends (very very unreliable for obvious reasons) and with Warzones, I have been able to consistently break 300k with 60% centurion gear / 40% PvE epics and only champion trinkets. Like someone has already stated and will no doubt state again, it's the player, not the class. It is what you make of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorkvid Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm running a venge DPS Jugg in a top 10 US guild. If you go by council, only our arsenal merc beats me and that's only a fraction of a second ahead. This is mainly RNG based. If you go test on the nar shadaa boss, I did 1885 dps (and this was before I finished gearing up, got 200 more power now) while our arsenal merc did 1912. Sorc came in right about 1875, sniper was woefully behind at around 1500 (though I suspect it's the rotation) in lethality, marks was even worse. Marauder was weird, he got 1965 one run and then 1720 the next, so I disregarded both his numbers. We will do better tests next time. These tests were seeing how long it would take for you to do 500k damage to him after a tank had done 100k damage and then continually taunted afterwards. Try it yourself, venge is freaking amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynt Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) DPS jugs are great, don't listen to baddies. bad players who do little dps will be bad and do little dps ... also, as for the "the class can be a tank" comment i suppose every single dps class in the game beside sniper and marauder would be would be woefully ahead of all other classes. Reason being is they can all either spec tank or heal. With this seriously flawed logic all classes should either be tanks or healers besides the sniper / marauder and their mirror. Edited February 18, 2012 by tynt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeth Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The only real way to compare dps atm in this game, is the "council" boss in EV, where everyone has to 1v1 against an mob. As main juggernaut dps in the guild, I always kill my add first. The other DPS in the guild are sorcerers and bounty hunters, so I have no idea how other melee are performing, but my dps seems to be above average compared to the ranged. No, the only way to truly test this is that all players have to kill the same mob... They are not the same! If they all where the same, with same armor, same HP. Sure. But thats not the case in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 funny you should say that cuz i've been recently using my marauder character and right now i just hit level 15 with my character and WOW the dps output is rediculous. Even tho im only a 15, i can still notice a huge difference in dps, im only mad that i didnt use the marauder sooner At L15 you are still basically the same as a jugg -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Jug and DPS don't really go together but until we have combat logs it will not matter, spec anything and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryemck Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Juggs have increased defense (heavy armour) so you should expect them to have less dps. Imagine Juggernauts having heavy armour and the dps of a sorceror! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissentus Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Juggs have increased defense (heavy armour) so you should expect them to have less dps. Imagine Juggernauts having heavy armour and the dps of a sorceror! A dps specced Jugg should do just as much damage as a dps specced Sorc. It doesn't matter if the Jugg has heavy armor, he isn't tanking in this situation where he is supposed to be designated as dps. Also, if it did matter, then what about the Sorc's heals or bubble? Because you know, since they have those they should be doing less, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Juggs have increased defense (heavy armour) so you should expect them to have less dps. Imagine Juggernauts having heavy armour and the dps of a sorceror!This is the same ridiculous reasoning that led to Paladins being gimped for years in WoW (They wear plate mail so their heals can't be as good as priests!) Wearing heavy armor or not is irrelevant to its DPS. I don't play a jugg so I don't know how strong DPS spec is, but wearing heavy armor is NOT a good reason for why they should have lower DPS. That said, I was grouped with a DPS jugg (And Sniper) and we were struggling to beat just about all the enrage timers on BT HM. Not sure if it was the jugg or the sniper's fault though. Edited February 22, 2012 by hulkweazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpcatt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 My 2 cents... I have a 50 Vengeance Jugg, 50 Deception Assassin (he's tankasin atm, but I mostly rolled Deception), and a weird hybrid Sorc. Is a Vengernaut viable... absolutely. Can he burst like an Assassin... not really. Does he have the tool kit of a Sorc... not really. Does he offer the group buffs of a Mara... not really. However, they certainly have their niche in that they can off tank quite effectively. My opinion is that a Vengernaut in all Tionese for example doesn't put out what a Mara in all Tionese does. However, as everyone gets more gear, it feels like that get closer together. i.e. a Vengernaut in all Rakata is very similar to anything else I've seen at that gear level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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