Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[tiennen]

You people are quite delusional if you think that means its coming. This is a statement that retains their "never say never" philosophy while at the same time acknowledging that cross-server dungeon finders are bad for games. They specifically say that, let me point that out for you.

 

 

 

That right there is the main reason why cross-server dungeon finder is a horrible idea. They know this. The entire rest of the statement is the "never say never" philosophy because if they say it will never come and then come back around and say its coming, they'll be eaten alive. All it is is PR padding.

 

Whether they add a dungeon finder in a week or in 8 months, its still going to kill this game in the same way they pointed out here.

 

I'm shocked that THIS is the statement that you people are basing this entire thread around.

 

 

ummmm.....you do know that we're not talking about a cross-server LFD tool, right?

 

i think most of us would be happy with same-server

[Orisai]

You people are quite delusional if you think that means its coming. This is a statement that retains their "never say never" philosophy while at the same time acknowledging that cross-server dungeon finders are bad for games. They specifically say that, let me point that out for you.

 

 

 

That right there is the main reason why cross-server dungeon finder is a horrible idea. They know this. The entire rest of the statement is the "never say never" philosophy because if they say it will never come and then come back around and say its coming, they'll be eaten alive. All it is is PR padding.

 

Whether they add a dungeon finder in a week or in 8 months, its still going to kill this game in the same way they pointed out here.

 

I'm shocked that THIS is the statement that you people are basing this entire thread around.

 

Requoting myself:

 

And you take Bioware's word as final? Don't you know that developers change their verses based on their potential income? This is what I learned from my past 7 years if WoW seeing things I once believed to be impossible, come true in the form of race, name, and factions change. Same goes for the new Xserver LFR.

[Vrumpt]

ummmm.....you do know that we're not talking about a cross-server LFD tool, right?

 

i think most of us would be happy with same-server

 

Yes, i would be too, but its the slippery slope deal. Once you have a same server LFD tool inevitably people will complain for a cross server one.

 

Unless BioWare comes out and is super adamant about never ever adding a cross - server LFD tool, but that will never happen. Never say never and all that.

[Skaara]

Fair enough, with this i agree completely.

 

You have to admit though, people are very divided when it comes to this feature, it has it's pros and cons that were stated many times in this and other discussions.

 

In my opinion if they implement a regular dungeon finder not many people will be against it at all, but on the other hand the cross server version of it would have a much larger opposition judging from the debates about it.

 

I missed the part where you are forced to use it and that goes for any type of lfd system. If you don't like it then just do what you already do .... draw from your friends and guild.

 

Oh I think I see now, it's perfectly acceptable to expect me to conform (force me into guilds and friends I don't technically care about) into your style of play. However, it's blasphemy and downright wrong to the point of people rage quitting over a tool that NO ONE would be forced to use. Wonderful logic you have.

[BlueSkittles]

ummmm.....you do know that we're not talking about a cross-server LFD tool, right?

 

i think most of us would be happy with same-server

 

I for one want the full WoW experience but am willing to settle for a fully-automatic, fully teleporting, choose your roll and go same-server LFG tool. But from my experience and at the least the experiences of WoW and Rift, same-server doesn't work because then queue times will be hours, not minutes.

[Orisai]

Page one:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=184796

 

Originally Posted by DamionSchubert

"There is huge social pressure to not be a jerk that goes away when the odds that you will never see these people again is high. I'm not saying never - there may come a time in the future where we reevaluate this - but at least in the short term, we believe this will cause more damage to the community than good."

 

This is the very same guy who called players "idiots" when he was asked about friendly fire way back in Beta Testing. Anyway, if things are done well since day one, there shouldn't be 'jerks' (if jerks he means ninja-looters).

 

I for one want the full WoW experience but am willing to settle for a fully-automatic, fully teleporting, choose your roll and go same-server LFG tool. But from my experience and at the least the experiences of WoW and Rift, same-server doesn't work because then queue times will be hours, not minutes.

 

It would work only when everyone's 50 and Empire-only lol

Edited January 25, 2012 by Orisai

[Skann]

Fair enough, with this i agree completely.

 

You have to admit though, people are very divided when it comes to this feature, it has it's pros and cons that were stated many times in this and other discussions.

 

In my opinion if they implement a regular dungeon finder not many people will be against it at all, but on the other hand the cross server version of it would have a much larger opposition judging from the debates about it.

 

Difference being, naysayers are just parroting what has been, time and again, demonstrated as hyped myths. Naysayers want to force everyone to play according to their view (pro-community, anti-jerks) and that the game is a secondary goal of a MMO, because first comes the social interaction/community building.

 

We, pro-LFG, want to let people decide for themselves. Not everybody cares about virtual friends/community/honor/reputation. Some people care about paying to play a multi-player game. Period.

 

The litmus test is that, majority rules and naysayers know, for a fact, that the majority will use the LFG for the good reasons that has been forever listed in the countless threads about the subject. They know, for a fact, that most players couldn't care less about community building/social interaction. The know, for a fact, that it's a game for most people, not a venue to escape real life social restrictions (because they are the real anti-social types, contrary to a popular argument that if you can't group, YOU are the anti-social).

[Ganelon]

I don't think anyone would suggest that a LFD systen wont get people in and through dungeons more often.

 

Then there's absolutely nothing more to discuss here, is there? The purpose of the system is to get people into groups and experiencing content. The most efficient way of doing that, proven by observation of other games, is a cross-server LFD tool.

[Orisai]

The know, for a fact, that it's a game for most people, not a venue to escape real life social restrictions (because they are the real anti-social types, contrary to a popular argument that if you can't group, YOU are the anti-social).

 

I remember a mom's basement virgin on another thread who called me 'antisocial' just because I want the LFD tool.

[AeonWeapon]

PS: if your answer is' this game isnt for you' or 'quit' take that over to BioWare and see how well that strategy goes over.

If this game isn't for us, they would be wise to accommodate us so this game IS for us, because we're paying the same fee as everyone else, and I would assume they want as many of those monthly payments rolling in as possible.

[AeonWeapon]

Nerd rage is the reason you think its coming in the first place. Acting like your an adult and somehow above anybody else here is a fallacy to yourself.

 

They have never said its absolutely coming, this thread is a spawn of nerd rage to get it out. Realize what it is and don't try to sugar coat it because you're pro-LFG.

 

Go look at the first page of this thread, at the developer post confirming that they're working on an LF tool, then enjoy the taste of your foot in your mouth.

Edited January 25, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[Ganelon]

Yes, i would be too, but its the slippery slope deal. Once you have a same server LFD tool inevitably people will complain for a cross server one.

 

Unless BioWare comes out and is super adamant about never ever adding a cross - server LFD tool, but that will never happen. Never say never and all that.

 

And they're right. A cross-server tool is a more efficient way of solving the problem than limiting it to single-server.

 

And they're not a vocal minority either. They're the overwhelming majority. Because if they were a minority, the number of groups doing instanced content wouldn't have dramatically increased in WoW once the tool went cross-server.

[AeonWeapon]

Also, might I add, these 'make friends/guilds' people are basically advocating the entire idea of PUG's be abolished since it is next to impossible to put one together in any efficient matter as the system stands. People not being able to efficiently interact with strangers sounds like an AWESOME community. Wait, it sounds more like an elitist cult. My mistake.

 

lol... awesome indeed

[Skann]

And they're right. A cross-server tool is a more efficient way of solving the problem than limiting it to single-server.

 

And they're not a vocal minority either. They're the overwhelming majority. Because if they were a minority, the number of groups doing instanced content wouldn't have dramatically increased in WoW once the tool went cross-server.

 

But WoW is ONLY played by elistist jerk ninjas that will kill your mother and skin your dog alive if you don't have supreme gaming skills.

[Touchbass]

There's a lot of new faces on here posting from both sides of the debate, that good to see. There also appears to be a lot more personal attacks going on, lets try and get along Edited January 25, 2012 by Touchbass

[BlueSkittles]

And they're right. A cross-server tool is a more efficient way of solving the problem than limiting it to single-server.

 

And they're not a vocal minority either. They're the overwhelming majority. Because if they were a minority, the number of groups doing instanced content wouldn't have dramatically increased in WoW once the tool went cross-server.

 

And in the case of WoW's recent Looking For Raid tool, here are some stats showing more people can now at least experience the content with a proper tool (via mmo-champion):

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2614-Dragon-Soul-and-Firelands-Statistics-Blue-Posts-Poll

[AeonWeapon]

ummmm.....you do know that we're not talking about a cross-server LFD tool, right?

 

i think most of us would be happy with same-server

 

Many of us are... same server wouldn't solve the problem, there's not enough people on each server.

 

If they just go same server, it certainly won't be enough to keep me around, because it will still be take way too long to get a team, the only difference is it will be an automatic way-to-long.

 

And I know that's the route they'll go first, because they'll listening to the anti-progressives. Eventually the need will be more obvious, but first they're going to wait until they lose more players to boredom cancellations.

Edited January 25, 2012 by AeonWeapon

[Touchbass]

I'm shocked that THIS is the statement that you people are basing this entire thread around.

 

This "thread" has been capped several times and has been going on for a very long time. In fact, since we've been compiled into this thread Bioware has acknowledged the LFD issue and are working on a solution.

[Touchbass]

And I know that's the route they'll go first, because they'll listening to the anti-progressives. Eventually the need will be more obvious, but first they're going to wait until they lose more players to boredom cancellations.

 

I really don't want them to implement the feature when it's too late. They need to be like Apple and have products/features out before people realize they need them. Too many features just plain come out too late and don't have the same significant impact that they would of had if they been out in the first place.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Touchbass

[Skann]

And in the case of WoW's recent Looking For Raid tool, here are some stats showing more people can now at least experience the content with a proper tool (via mmo-champion):

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2614-Dragon-Soul-and-Firelands-Statistics-Blue-Posts-Poll

 

But but but it's a MMO KILLER! How dare you present facts to state otherwise?!

 

You elistist jerk ninja casual !!@1!2

Edited January 25, 2012 by Skann

[Touchbass]

And in the case of WoW's recent Looking For Raid tool, here are some stats showing more people can now at least experience the content with a proper tool (via mmo-champion):

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2614-Dragon-Soul-and-Firelands-Statistics-Blue-Posts-Poll

 

That just shows you that a very small part of the population is raiding. Like what 4%? Why are we cataring to that insignificant part of the population

[MalignX]

Nerd rage is the reason you think its coming in the first place. Acting like your an adult and somehow above anybody else here is a fallacy to yourself.

 

They have never said its absolutely coming, this thread is a spawn of nerd rage to get it out. Realize what it is and don't try to sugar coat it because you're pro-LFG.

 

Maybe if I whine and call it a slippery slope 47 times it will effect the outcome more efficiently.

[Neiloch]

That just shows you that a very small part of the population is raiding. Like what 4%? Why are we cataring to that insignificant part of the population

 

But its more than likely going to become bigger since raiding is more accessible. Matter of fact it's inevitable. Not like 50% are going to be raiding or anything, but a definite increase.

 

Need to remember that is WoW though. I've had several arguments about other MMO's and raiding and people immediately equate WoW raiding percentages = other MMO raiding percentages, which simply does not work.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Neiloch

[Touchbass]

But its more than likely going to become bigger since raiding is more accessible. Matter of fact it's inevitable. Not like 50% are going to be raiding or anything, but a definite increase.

 

Need to remember that is WoW though. I've had several arguments about other MMO's and raiding and people immediately equate WoW raiding percentages = other MMO raiding percentages, which simply does not work.

 

Fair enough

[Manathayria]

Lots of stuff I want to reply to...

And in the case of WoW's recent Looking For Raid tool, here are some stats showing more people can now at least experience the content with a proper tool (via mmo-champion):

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2614-Dragon-Soul-and-Firelands-Statistics-Blue-Posts-Poll

The raids for those were indeed nerfed compared to the others as well. If you run via LFD tool the content is easier than normal or hard modes to compensate for disorganized pugs.

 

But people get to see the content that cannot raid on a normal schedule, and get gear that's a slight step below the normal raid's drops/token awarded items.

 

Server-wide chat channels don't work. All it does is become the new city trade spam channel. Blizzard mentioned this years ago when they tried this on a test server and they saw the horror of what it became.

There was a live server wide channel at one time - believe connected only if you had LFG running but I could be wrong - it was also possible at one time to join city channels from anywhere, an ability that was later removed.

 

A group of individuals found a way to fully crash the servers by overloading that - I was online when they hit, and took down all the servers with it.

 

People in general are not ******es in the LFD. It's like these boards here, people will make a remark and the person will flip out and throw a tandrum and kick the person. The majority of the groups are fine with a few difficulties that are acceptable if your using the tool for it's intended purpose. I made countless groups without the tool with guildies and friends, so I don't know why people are having issue with finding in server groups.

 

Bioware really, and I mean really dropped the ball by having 2 dps per group and no dual spec. I was hoping for a tank + 4 dps and heals composition but there is no point getting caught up in what hasn't happened.

 

The biggest issues with the new LFD are:

 

1) Teleport

 

2) Automated?

 

3) Queue system?

 

4) Punishment? (will this even be applicable?)

 

5) scroll down menu? Will I see listings for every available player per role? DarkKhoas if you get a chance made up a nice interface

As someone that preffers server only LFD - with the option to expand to cross server LFD later (as I do expect it to be necessary) I've already provided feedback/examples on my LFD experience in the past in one of my posts. I don't feel I need to say it again.

 

Here's something interesting

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amkywcdK1RI

 

The guy behind Tankspot talks about the whole LFD/LFR debate.

Having known someone that joined the guild that does the whole Tankspot production, they are the last ones I'd consider experts on this issue. The individual that got an invite over to their guild went over and found that the only time that guild was online at all was when it was raid time. Until then everyone was in other guilds and it was fully dead. Apparently the guild pretty much tolerated each other because they were all elite enough to clear the content and usually were down right rude to each other.

 

@ Kashaan - restating what I said earlier - and fixed since you failed to understand what was said and fixated on one set of words.

You realize that there is a PvP community even though you may not notice it if you full PvE? We all recognize each other in WZ, and we recognize each other on fleet and everything when we're running around. We do know exactly who the jerk is that screams at everyone while doing nothing himself in WZ. Make no mistake, it's hit just like the PvE dungeons are when it comes to community. The difference is there's no loot drops and it's working for a specific goal in the WZ, and at the end are awarded tokens to exchange for loot based on what we did and if our side won or lost.

I pointed out that we do recognize each other on fleet/other. I'm not talking about accountability as far as loot and crap. I'm talking about it being a small community (on pve servers) that can quickly ignore the retarded children that want to sit afk and everything. We very quickly get to know who it is that's a tool and know to block them.

 

When I mentioned this, it was directed at someone that said PvP cross server was fine, but a cross server LFD tool was not.

 

If you've been paying attention, I want server side LFD first then would be open to cross server if it goes into play.

 

So when I say 'what's good for one, is good for another... realize I'm also open to cross server - though I would like options for that which allow us to pick to be server only in the q, but still have it possible for cross server q to pull us for those on the same server.

 

.... which also means... I'd be open to cross server WZ. *gasp*

 

Wrath of the Lich King didn't have the LFG tool implemented until half-way through either. And I don't think they consider BC superior because it didn't have any LFG tool, but rather because trash pulls required correct CC application to get past from, and were not an AOE spam in each room.

Nailed it in one. The issue was some classes didn't have CC and those ones suffered, but we look back on it fondly because it was fun to have to actually use every class to full potential.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Manathayria