Dungeon Finder Needed Badly.

[DarthKhaos]

I call "storytelling" on you. I do that because in my 12+ years of online gaming the worst ninja looting I ever saw going on was WoW pre-LFD tool. The worst trolls and players behaving badly was hands down original UO, then second would be WoW pre-LFD tool.

 

In SWTOR I've seen a couple of occasions where people tried to "police" someone by calling their name out in general for bad behavior. The people themselves were the ones told they were getting put on ignore. No one cares about your vendettas. They don't care because most know that 90% of the time that's all it is, a petty vendetta that has nothing to do with ninja looting or bad behavior being acted on.

Everyone will have different experiences. Some people have performance issues in this game. Just because someone else doesn't doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've seen it on some characters and been lucky not to at all on others. You see it in the forums where people state if they or their companion can use the item they're rolling need.

 

People "don't care" because they are only thinking about themselves. If it doesn't affect them they're not going to bother where others see a potential problem and try to nip it in the bud.

[Dominemesis]

This is a game, if I want to work then I'll go work.

 

<----This, there is a difference between challenge and tedium. I expect to receive a challenge in the dungeon, not getting a group together just to run it. A lfg tool/dungeon queue makes as much sense as a Warzone queue. Also the fear that this will damage community is backwards, if anything spamming LFG at a bunch of people who aren't looking for a group and don't want to see it will likely make you less popular, but getting grouped up with folks who want to party up and run dungeons will likely make you some friends.

 

I am all for maintaining challenge and not making the game too easy, but this is not that. That is like saying keyboards make communicating too easy, we should only use the mouse to pantomime our intentions to others.

 

And for the love of god, I have been playing these games since UO and EQ as well, and even I am sick of the,"Back in my day, you little ingrate carebear, we had to walk up hill, in snow with broken glass in it, with bloody feet, both ways, to the dungeon, with no group, and our corpses camped, and when Rallos Zek killed our guild on the plane of Hate, he looted our corpses of all our gear, and everything that would have been in our guild bank...if we had, had such things you damn MMO whippersnapper!!" stories.

[Umbral]

Everyone will have different experiences. Some people have performance issues in this game. Just because someone else doesn't doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've seen it on some characters and been lucky not to at all on others. You see it in the forums where people state if they or their companion can use the item they're rolling need.

 

People "don't care" because they are only thinking about themselves. If it doesn't affect them they're not going to bother where others see a potential problem and try to nip it in the bud.

No people just don't care. This fantasy "policing" has never worked, ever. It didn't work in any game that have come before when servers held much less players, and it most certainly won't work with the size the servers are today.

 

People are savvy enough to realize that just because someone spams "xxxx is a ninja looter!" doesn't mean that it's true.

 

I ask, does anyone here want to play in a game where anyone that YOU might cross, whether intentionally or unintentionally, can run YOU out of the game by just making up some story and spamming it in general?

 

THAT right there was why this "policing" of other players never worked. People knew right away that it was too easily abused and stopped paying attention to it, and in fact reacted negatively to players trying to use the tactic.

[Graburr]

No people just don't care. This fantasy "policing" has never worked, ever.

 

worked in eq, worked in wow pre-df, still works in lotro.

 

and the people that want a pleasant run do care.

[DarthKhaos]

No people just don't care. This fantasy "policing" has never worked, ever. It didn't work in any game that have come before when servers held much less players, and it most certainly won't work with the size the servers are today.

 

People are savvy enough to realize that just because someone spams "xxxx is a ninja looter!" doesn't mean that it's true.

 

I ask, does anyone here want to play in a game where anyone that YOU might cross, whether intentionally or unintentionally, can run YOU out of the game by just making up some story and spamming it in general?

 

THAT right there was why this "policing" of other players never worked. People knew right away that it was too easily abused and stopped paying attention to it, and in fact reacted negatively to players trying to use the tactic.

There's two types of "policing" The best kind is where you make a decision not to interact with said person. You mention it to your friends and once they trust your judgement and know you're not the kind of person who just wines believe me it will matter.

 

I have played games where people who go out of their way (maybe not from their point of view) to be a -ve in the game community and people took notice. Said person became a social leper and prob made a new character and acted differently or left the game all together. We all were happy.

 

Then it's how people make these claims. If someone says "OMG EVERYONE XXX SUCKS DON'T PARTY WITH THEM!!!" It's hard to take them seriously. However if someone says "FYI: Keep an eye out if you're ever partied with XXX because he does X, Y or Z." I'm going to whip out my note pad and scribble that name down with "??? Beware ???" next to it.

[RocNessMonster]

worked in eq, worked in wow pre-df, still works in lotro.

 

and the people that want a pleasant run do care.

 

Yep, the people who pay attention make a mental note not to invite infamously bad players.

[Graburr]

I like how everybody's is clamoring for x-shard, which essentially means when you're stuck in a lowpop-server and want to get off, you have to pay. a lot of dead server in wow, yet no server merge in sight - and why should blizz care, if you want to group just click the button.

 

not to mention, if people like the "doing dailies till the queue pops" gameplay, why didn't they stay in wow?

[Umbral]

worked in eq, worked in wow pre-df, still works in lotro.

 

and the people that want a pleasant run do care.

No it absolutely did not work. Not in UO, not in EQ, not in Anarchy Online, not in DAoC, not in Asheron's Call, not in WoW, not in PotBS, not in any game, ever. All that might have worked was making you feel better that you acted out your little petty vendetta against someone, but I can assure you it had no effect on that person whatsoever, and just made people annoyed with you.

[Umbral]

Yep, the people who pay attention make a mental note not to invite infamously bad players.

No they don't. No one does. This "belief" that players will is just fantasy. It sounds like something that will work in some people's heads, and so people run off at the mouth about how it will work, but it's never shown itself to work in reality. Ever.

[Saint-Ange]

It's strange how some people have trouble finding a group, when some others, like me on a desert server - Kessel Run - without family, friend or guild on the game, have no problem at all.

Spend less time on forums, and you'll find faster some people to group with.

If you are not organized enough to be able to do something at the same time you are looking for a group, I'll say, well, guys, please change nothing, especially yourselves, and that game, of course.

 

What I believe is:

Some people here are paid by some other companies, to put the finger on what could heart (? I meant: damage) the game.

In France, this year and for the first time, some companies, specialized to make a troll campaign on a game or a product, to rise it or to sink it, will be prosecuted.

 

Ok you think who cares about France, but Blizzard for example, it's Activision now, it's french.

Ubisoft, etc.

 

What we have to do, and so must do the devs, is to be aware of such people.

No matter how the game is, good or poor, their job is to create the problem, and to make it become a buzz.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Saint-Ange

[dtim]

worked in eq, worked in wow pre-df, still works in lotro.

 

and the people that want a pleasant run do care.

 

In EQ the really infamous players weren't the ninjas, it was the players who regularly trained raids/groups. Nothing the community could do about that except avoid the zones those players were in.

 

In WoW this "policing" died when name changing and server transfers were introduced. Long before the dungeon finder.

[Umbral]

 

Then it's how people make these claims. If someone says "OMG EVERYONE XXX SUCKS DON'T PARTY WITH THEM!!!" It's hard to take them seriously. However if someone says "FYI: Keep an eye out if you're ever partied with XXX because he does X, Y or Z." I'm going to whip out my note pad and scribble that name down with "??? Beware ???" next to it.

If you want to maintain the illusion that it works, just what about a LFD tool would preclude you doing that anyway? Someone tells you a name to watch out for, and so when you see the names of who you're grouped with, and that name is there, then you can make your decisions.

 

I like how everybody's is clamoring for x-shard, which essentially means when you're stuck in a lowpop-server and want to get off, you have to pay. a lot of dead server in wow, yet no server merge in sight - and why should blizz care, if you want to group just click the button.

 

not to mention, if people like the "doing dailies till the queue pops" gameplay, why didn't they stay in wow?

So are you against dailies? Or against a LFD tool?

 

Anyway, the LFD tool in WoW saved a very large number of low pop server communities from disappearing because it allowed players to stay on a server where they had made many friends, regardless of it's population, and still be able to access the content they wanted to access. Before the LFD tool some servers were hemorrhaging players as they transferred off to higher pop ones in order to be able to find groups.

[Ordric]

lfd tool = less time looking for ppl in chat (spamming) = more time spending with ppl in groups and actually more time playing

 

is my math doin' it right?

[Saint-Ange]

is my math doin' it right?

 

No

 

I loose no time, it never took more than 5 minutes to build a 4 people group, and 15mn for 24 raid.

 

I can travel, quest, harvest, at the same time I'm having fun and a little brainstorming, to create the nicest announce possible, regarding the background of the quest.

 

Result, I don't loose my time, and I train my brain what you'll do not do with your LFG tool

[savagepotato]

No people just don't care. This fantasy "policing" has never worked, ever. It didn't work in any game that have come before when servers held much less players, and it most certainly won't work with the size the servers are today.

 

People are savvy enough to realize that just because someone spams "xxxx is a ninja looter!" doesn't mean that it's true.

 

I ask, does anyone here want to play in a game where anyone that YOU might cross, whether intentionally or unintentionally, can run YOU out of the game by just making up some story and spamming it in general?

 

THAT right there was why this "policing" of other players never worked. People knew right away that it was too easily abused and stopped paying attention to it, and in fact reacted negatively to players trying to use the tactic.

 

Yelling "bill is a ninja looter" in general chat is not how community policing works. Community policing works through communities. Communities are established guilds or even alliances of guilds that share information.

 

When "bill the ninja looter" comes along to fill out my group and proves to be an extremely bad player, I can then go to his guild leaders who are responsible for him. Likewise others can come to me for members of my guild should they act stupid. By forming actual communities you foster an environment where you have recourse to deal with troublesome players. This may not even result in Bill getting blacklisted from the server, It may result in his guild leader saying "hey bill, stop being a douche or you are out of the guild, that doesn't fly around here" leading to the player actually being forced to see that there are consequences, and perhaps he should just stop behaving this way.

 

With a cross server LFD tool, and even to a greater extent with fast easy server transfer and name changes. Bill the ninja looter can now plunder his way to whatever he wants with no consequence, and even if by some chance word does get back to his own community of his undesirable behavior he can put down some money and go get a fresh start. There is no longer a deterrent to acting this way.

 

But yet you maintain the explosion of this kind of behavior in WoW conveniently right after the combination of the cross server tool and name/server changes was implemented has NO correlation whatsoever. Despite the fact that other games are trucking along with well handled tight(albeit smaller) communities, and everyone that is sick of WoW says the same thing, WoW has no community left.

 

Open your eyes.

Edited January 20, 2012 by savagepotato

[ganondorq]

Haha. Wow dude, did you have to walk through sleet and snow barefoot, too?

 

That must have sucked for you.

 

First you used "LMFAO" which was obnoxious, then followed it up describing him as "entitled" because he doesn't want to spam / be spammed by people in General chat.

 

I guess to people like you being inconvenienced builds character, and "LF2M TANK AND DPS BT" is not only fun to read 150 times, but really helps establish community.

 

I'm all about LFG tools. People that whine LFG tools are tools.

 

I've skipped about 70% of the Flashpoints in the game, with one Level 50 and a handful of level 30s simply because spamming General chat and staring blankly at a wall on the Fleet is of absolutely no interest to me or a reasonable use of my time.

 

completely agree. it's a complete waste of time to stand and moan for a group for ~20 min when i could be out getting crap done, while waiting for a q to pop.

[Listerman]

I'm not against this. Would make leveling Social easier, and it would save a lot of time standing around going "Um, anyone up for [flashpoint]? Anyone?"

[CharagonIGN]

The key thing is simply information. Going to /who isn't sufficient.

 

 

If I'm looking to fill out a group, I want a tab that tells me everybody interesting in running a flashpoint. I want to know what level they are, what role they can fill, and which flashpoints they are interested in.

 

I want a tab that lets me check a box to tell people I want to run Hammer Station.

I want to be able to look at that same tab and find everybody else in the galaxy that also is up for running Hammer Station.

[savagepotato]

The key thing is simply information. Going to /who isn't sufficient.

 

 

If I'm looking to fill out a group, I want a tab that tells me everybody interesting in running a flashpoint. I want to know what level they are, what role they can fill, and which flashpoints they are interested in.

 

I want a tab that lets me check a box to tell people I want to run Hammer Station.

I want to be able to look at that same tab and find everybody else in the galaxy that also is up for running Hammer Station.

 

And you will have that.

 

They have already spoken and indicated they are at work on an enhanced in server tool. The point of contention is those who insist cross server is the only solution.

 

It's not however. Merging low population servers or offering free transfers is a better solution to me by far than a cross server tool.

[zuile]

Cross server LFD would work fine if they made it use lootbags, otherwise just give a damn LDF tool already doesn't even have to be cross server just give me something good and useful to find a group quickly without having to camp the imp fleet and planets for an hour or more.

[Nethrel]

Whenever you go in a flashpoint, add people to your friends list especially tanks and healers. You can also join a guild. Chances are you will find 4 people in less then 10 minutes that want to do something doing either of these things. Problem solved while you wait for them to add the lfg system. Good luck.

 

Also if you have a vent or teamspeak, share info. People like playing with people they can talk to.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Nethrel

[DarthKhaos]

The key thing is simply information. Going to /who isn't sufficient.

 

 

If I'm looking to fill out a group, I want a tab that tells me everybody interesting in running a flashpoint. I want to know what level they are, what role they can fill, and which flashpoints they are interested in.

 

I want a tab that lets me check a box to tell people I want to run Hammer Station.

I want to be able to look at that same tab and find everybody else in the galaxy that also is up for running Hammer Station.

What you describe is a more refined version of the current "/who" system which I am all for. This is what I've been talking about. What I was trying to get through to people about the "/who" system is that even if it is crude using it would allow you to not have to stand in fleet repeating msg in General Chat over and over and you can GO do something.

 

Problem is people refuse to adapt and try a different (even though it's rough around the edges) system. Because it is not a fully automated system that finds the people for you they revert back to the "tried and true" method of asking in General.

[Mineria]

What this game really needs at this point...is a Dungeon Finder. It was a huge success in other MMO's, no reason for it not to be in this game.

 

Pros:

 

1. Can continue questing while waiting for group to form.

2. Prevents trolls from sitting there ruining General Chat while they are bored trying to fill a group.

3. Proves that BioWare can do something like this. Buys street creds.

 

Cons:

 

1. Some people think it ruins the community...but I think they are wrong. They obviously have not sat for an hour trying to fill a Flashpoint group.

2. People who think like that are probably in a huge guild and have no trouble filling groups. We're usually filling 2-3 of 4 and just need that last role.

I didn't have problems finding pug groups for flashpoints from launch to now, but I can understand that this issue exists on some servers.

 

If server population is to low, upgrade the hardware on one server and merge some.

 

In addition to the OP's suggestion: Keep it server only.

I have seen people, even a friend of mine being a real ***hat when grouping with people via cross server group finders.

Because they don't give a flying when they play with people that they don't run into every day on their own server.

Those who behave that way on their own servers quickly get blacklisted by the community.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Mineria

[SlickDevlan]

I think there are 6 different groups of people in regards to this issue

 

1) People who only play at prime time and don't recognize this as a issue

 

2) People on low population/republic servers that are screaming "save me"

 

3) People who play 4-5 hours per session so prolonged group making isn't an issue

 

4) People who are fine with not being able to run a group if no one is available

 

5) People who have limited playtime and can't afford to waste time meandering around

 

6) The lazy, bad apple part of the population that ruins communities

 

I wish people would realize that the majority of people asking for LFD are 2) and 5), not 6)

 

 

Thing is, #2 is a problem that is better solved by other means and #5 is a personal problem that has zero to do with the game.

[Umbral]

Yelling "bill is a ninja looter" in general chat is not how community policing works. Community policing works through communities. Communities are established guilds or even alliances of guilds that share information.

 

When "bill the ninja looter" comes along to fill out my group and proves to be an extremely bad player, I can then go to his guild leaders who are responsible for him. Likewise others can come to me for members of my guild should they act stupid. By forming actual communities you foster an environment where you have recourse to deal with troublesome players. This may not even result in Bill getting blacklisted from the server, It may result in his guild leader saying "hey bill, stop being a douche or you are out of the guild, that doesn't fly around here" leading to the player actually being forced to see that there are consequences, and perhaps he should just stop behaving this way.

 

With a cross server LFD tool, and even to a greater extent with fast easy server transfer and name changes. Bill the ninja looter can now plunder his way to whatever he wants with no consequence, and even if by some chance word does get back to his own community of his undesirable behavior he can put down some money and go get a fresh start. There is no longer a deterrent to acting this way.

 

But yet you maintain the explosion of this kind of behavior in WoW conveniently right after the combination of the cross server tool and name/server changes was implemented has NO correlation whatsoever. Despite the fact that other games are trucking along with well handled tight(albeit smaller) communities, and everyone that is sick of WoW says the same thing, WoW has no community left.

 

Open your eyes.

You're simply wrapping fantasy up with completely false information.

 

There was no "explosion" of ninja looters and bad behavior in WoW at all after the LFD tool was implemented. In fact the LFD tool did a lot to curb the bad behavior, since people weren't hesitant to kick a bad seed anymore. They could easily find a replacement, instead of having to wait for the group leader to exit, travel to a city, spam for who knows how long, then travel back if a replacement was ever found. The jerks and ninja looters couldn't hold groups hostage anymore.

 

Furthermore, you can log in to any WoW server today and see a vibrant community interacting with each other all day long, and this FACT has been echoed by countless people snuffing out the "WoW communities were destroyed" myth in the 4 iterations of this thread, including screenshots of various vibrant WoW server community chats and such I might add.