Why Sorcs need a nerf

[Orangerascal]

As people have stated before, lots of the Sorc damage comes from dots, so ofcourse they dont reach 5k as often, although i think your overreacting with tanks doing 5k ticks, unless you can provide a screenshot, as in the 100+ warzones ive done ive never seen a tank more than a 3k damage hit.

 

I will also clarify a bit on my first post, and it seemed to of given off a different impression than i intended. The arguement that "Sorcs/Sages are really squishy" becomes moot once they have high enough gear. Ive seen sorcs have more health and more armor than tanks.

 

It's because they are better geared which is my point. PVP is balanced for endgame battlemaster gear (and because of expertise, it's balanced for lower tiered gear against the same tier). Or at least they try to balance it for this level.

 

It's not balanced when I player has battlemaster and 1 player has champion being a whole tier higher. So statements like ' Ive seen sorcs have more health and more armor than tanks.' are moot and plain stupid. Here's a relevant example: A level 40 sorc also has more hp's than a level 30 tank .... NERF!!!

 

The only way a sorc will have higher hp's than a tank is when there is a gear disparity. I've seen tanks break 22k hit points and there is a SS of a Jedi guardian doing a 9k hit. That's burst. These people are also in the best end game gear attainable.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Orangerascal

[SandTrout]

well were is the problem? i can survive 2 enemies, and what can i else? i cant kill them, they cant kill me? sounds fair? and i cant keep myself alive and my whole party...

Simply surviving 2 enemies is huge because of the resources involved.

 

You can tie up two enemies with one Sage/sorc, meaning that your team now is playing a 7v6 game.

[da_krall]

Dont forget to nerf BH and SW as well, they are far to tough for the damage/healing numbers they can put out. I guess that mean every class is OP and needs a nerf.

[Slechtvalk]

Simply surviving 2 enemies is huge because of the resources involved.

 

You can tie up two enemies with one Sage/sorc, meaning that your team now is playing a 7v6 game.

 

i just meant i can deal the damage of 2 incoming. if they interrupt my casts, i survive less than 5 seconds...

[Chaos_Distortion]

No classes in this game need to be nerfed, you guys just need to quit playing. Your whining needs to be nerfed, you all need to learn to play. I say this as someone who leveled as a dps scoundrel and am now a healing scoundrel at 50. Some classes need buffs but no classes in this game need to be nerfed. Trust me, you don't want the devs to start nerfing because eventually the nerf bat will swing down your way. Edited January 16, 2012 by Chaos_Distortion

[KilllerRock]

Sorcs seem fine right now. But thats looking at it from a team perspective. I don't know why people are saying 1v1 a sorc and then come back to this post...1v1 is the scenario that should make you look OP. You can kite and heal, it doesn't matter if they are crap heals, you dot your target, LoS and heal back up while they are busy dying. And a 3k shield again in team fight is whatever, can be bursted, 3k shield 1v1 is OP.

 

Either way we will find out what classes truly need buffs and nerfs when ranked matches come out and you see the best of the best of certain classes dominating other classes.

[Jambert]

Don't have an issue with Sorcs - my class (SI Sin) has plenty of utility to deal with them just fine. The only time I've ever had an issue with them was when I was on my own in WZ and the opposing team was 4 sorc premade, otherwise they are fine to handle.

 

I hope L50 bracket clears up the endless stream of nerf threads on the forums, wishful thinking me thinks

[Niquity]

..../facepalm, your bad i hope this helped

[dcgregorya]

sorc isn't OP at all. They are quite squishy and their damage is *** unless they are standing still freely casting.. they have no burst. all these complainers are casual pvpers who get kited a few times and then whine. all the good pvpers know that sorc/sage aren't that good. and this is from a sentinel player. sorcs tickle me with their pitiful damage. theres no way they can kill me unless I dont have cooldowns.

 

Go up against premade sorc/merc combos. Focus down the healers! Ok, but then you can't interrupt the tracer spam. Interrupt the tracer spam! Ok, but then you can't kill or stop the healers. Oh yeah plus don't bother with any DoTs or long CD damage abilities because of bubbles & cleanse.

 

I don't like anything that dictates what classes I have to play to not get roflstomped.

[Harsh]

As many are saying, the sorc isn't blatantly op, only requiring tweaks to diminish utility.

 

The fact that you can enter a battle with two shields ready for yourself (because cooldown is based off last use rather than ability cast) and immediatly mitigate 6k damage on yourself , while having a shield on multiple teamates.. you alone with no effort will stop 15k dmg + so long as there is a short walk from your starting point to the battle. (AKA every warzone and Illum)

 

Then factor in that DoTs interrupt cast times in Voidstar and Alderaan on objectives, and the utility of burst is not valued in terms of medals as much as raw damage output, and healing.

Every single person can attest to interrupts not functioning properly, the value of channeled and cast spells (especially heal) is amplified in general.

 

The only class that can really stand up to an operatives burst is a sorc with a shield up, and shield debuff off cooldown, with stun-breaker offcooldown. The "light armour" argument as an excuse to have this sort of survivability and utility doesn't cut it. I'm an assassin in light armour and I have "immunity to force/tech for 2 seconds" on a 30 second cooldown, then an increased deflection rating by 50% for 12 seconds on a 2 min CD. My AoE knockback is identical to sorcs, just does not ensare enemies, and sorc also has same sprint as me. My survivability is fine, and I haven't the advantage of out-ranging my opponents to avoid damage, instead only increased deflection in general.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Harsh

[Orangerascal]

Then factor in that DoTs interrupt cast times in Voidstar and Alderaan on objectives, and the utility of burst is not valued in terms of medals as much as raw damage output, and healing.

 

This is a bug that affects all dots. Or I think it's a bug, I'm not sure if it's intentionally designed like this.

[Slechtvalk]

The fact that you can enter a battle with two shields ready for yourself (because cooldown is based off last use rather than ability cast) and immediatly mitigate 6k damage on yourself , while having a shield on multiple teamates.. you alone with no effort will stop 15k dmg + so long as there is a short walk from your starting point to the battle. (AKA every warzone and Illum)

 

Um have you ever played pve? You know without that, pve will be broken.

 

Oh and, cause you think its too op, you can benefit also by a friendly sorc/sage. So where is the problem? aaah right, you cant pawn the healer, well fighting is different here, maybe you like it more "4 seconds every enemy down" other people like it more "3 vs 3 will last 2 minutes to see who had better energy management or tactic"

 

The problem of this nerf crying is always someone wanting 1:1.

 

This is why i wrote

 

1st: Gear > skill

2nd: level

3rd: L2P in Groups

4th: L2P

 

You got 7 teammates. Yes it sucks if all 8 cant play as a team, but then nerfing classes, ***?

[SandTrout]

This is a bug that affects all dots. Or I think it's a bug, I'm not sure if it's intentionally designed like this.

 

Pretty sure that DoTs interrupting interactions with objectives is working as intended.

[da_krall]

This. As a commando medic I run out of juice within 4-5 casts if i try to spam. A sorc can just mindlessly facerollspam for seemingly forever. Also commando medics got no sorts of getaways or instant bubbles, save for an instantheal for 1,5k every 21 sec (top tier ability). Not saying commandos are useless healers. They can shine in PvE if you play correctly. In PvP however theyre just utter garbage compared to the immense amount of tools given to their sage counterpart.

 

They are easily the most survivable healer in the game, heavy armour, as much CC as any none tank, great heals, a shiled that stop interupts and can spec for the best healer damage with tracer missle spam.

[Halvos]

Go up against premade sorc/merc combos. Focus down the healers! Ok, but then you can't interrupt the tracer spam. Interrupt the tracer spam! Ok, but then you can't kill or stop the healers. Oh yeah plus don't bother with any DoTs or long CD damage abilities because of bubbles & cleanse.

 

I don't like anything that dictates what classes I have to play to not get roflstomped.

 

So you can't dot them because they'll use an ability that triggers the GCD. But then you also can't stop tracer missile spam because you have to always interrupt the heals. And what exactly are they doing to stop you guys from healing also? Honestly, if your team can't figure out how to deal with the opposite team, then they are just flat out better. Sorry, but that's true. Depending on the classes you have on your team, I can think of multiple ways to deal with the team you just previously mentioned. I see all these "This class is op" threads and they're all just pathetic. The classes are fairly balanced. Some could use some minor tweaks, but nothing is unstoppable. Stop pretending it is.

[Grmp]

There are two ACs in SWTOR that in my opinion are blatantly OP; Operatives in terms of burst, and Sorcs in terms of utility combined with damage. More so the latter one. Sorcs got way too much utility, especially when they produce numbers similar/exceeding the other classes.

 

To sum it up:

- Ranged

- Sprint

- Knockback

- Instant cast long duration CC

- Great AoE damage

- Snare

- Mostly instant cast dmg abilities, if specced "right"

- A shield working post-mitigation, with a short CD

- Great burst

- Rescue

- Heals

 

This class needs to be toned down. My suggestions for how to do this is either increase the CD timer on several of their abilities (Static Barrier and Sprint especially), or reduce their overall damage output. A single class should not ever excel at every single aspect of a game.

 

Am I on crack, or am I actually on to something here?

 

go play WoW

[da_krall]

Yes you can. I'm a Sniper, and my guildmate who I duel every now and then is specced for instant casts. It's a DPS-race on eachother, and we win and lose 50/50 of the times.

 

Wait?? its 50/50 when you dual a sniper, so you think thats nerf worthy? would you be happy when your winning 70/30 or maybe you want 100/0.......

[Cpdoomi]

I wish people could make up their minds whether they think it's the healer Sages or the dps Sages that are OP(or both). Many people seem to think they are one and the same.

 

As a healer Sage I can heal for a lot in BGs and also damage abit(500k healing and 100k damage isn't that uncommon in Voidstar). I do however get destroyed in 1v1 by most classes with equal gear if I don't sprint away, or kite for eternity(and kiting doesn't work against all classes, far from it; some are ranged, some are faster than me, some can charge, some can slow me as much as I can slow them ect.) since my dmg output with just instants is very low. So I am support not a 1v1 fighter and that's fine by me, but I don't feel a nerf of healer Sages survivability is necessary. Even with shield I have no chance of taking out a Marauder if he knows what he's doing, in fact my chances are slim of even getting away. Likewise Operatives can often outdmg my healing/shielding without the need to even CC or interrupt me(which I find kind of odd).

 

My defensive non-healing spells are:

Force Slow - (50% slow for 6 sec - 12 sec CD) Good for kiting targets that can't cc or charge you.

Sprint - Primary escape spell (30 sec CD)

Force Wave - AoE knockback, but targets don't get knocked down to the ground so they're back in within a second. Healer Sages Force Wave does not root opponents.

Force Stun - (4sec stun - 1min CD)

Force of Will - (Breaks CC - 2 min CD)

Force Lift - Polymorph

Mind Snap - Counterspell (4 sec lock of skill - 12 sec CD)

Force Armor - Shields for X dmg (no cd with talents - 20(17 with pvp gear bonus) sec weakened soul debuff)

 

Now it's my perception of things that most classes have equal skills of the majority of these skills. Most people seem to be disgruntled with the 'unique' "Force Armor" and the "Sprint", but can any of these people tell me how I am to survive anyone pouncing on me without these? I already get 30% less healing done in BGs, and healing is my defence. I need to outlast people, but how am I supposed to do that when they can deal more dps than I can conjure hps? That is to say if I can't run away.

[Pipmakarn]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong...WRONG!

 

Sorcerers need a nerf because unlike every other class they have a huge resource pool that regenerates linearly. NO OTHER AC IN THE WHOLE DARN GAME has that! A Sorcerer can cast what he wants, when he wants, without paying the slightest attention to the resource bar. THAT'S the problem!

 

A Sorc is DPSing. A Sorc sees he needs to use a CC. Sorcerer presses the button, CC happens. He never even looks at his force bar.

 

Now compare that to a Sith Warrior. Sith warrior is DPSing. Sith Warrior realizes he needs to do a CC or an interrupt. Whoops! No rage, because he mismanaged his resource. He dies.

 

Compare that to a BH. A BH is DPSing. A BH realizes he has to CC. Whoops! He's overheated because he wasn't paying attention to his heat bar. He dies.

 

Problem with Sorcerers is NOT the skills and the CCs and whatnot. First and foremost is that they can do whatever they want on demand without having to hold back. As a BH, I constantly hold back DPS to keep my cooling optimal. As a sniper I constantly hold back on DPS to keep energy regen optimal. As a Sith Warrior, I constantly have to hold back DPS to keep a few surplus rage for CC/interrupts. But as a Sorc, you can go balls-to-the-wall DPS and not worry about a thing.

 

Nerf that, and you'll fix the class. Or buff all other classes, give everyone 600 heat, 600 energy, 600 rage, etc. Then we'll be even.

 

All other classes has autoattacks that hurts, do you expect a Sage to go into melee when he is out of force? l2think.

[Yogurta]

Please check the following screen shot I made yesterday.

http://tinypic.com/r/1zg5buw/5

 

Look at the guy on the top (I apologize that it does not show healing done).

OK. 500k damage did not impress you?

 

Now look at the character named Zinzu. That's my my brand new lvl12 sorc, doing 108k with only lightning and shock - 2 buttons.

The funny thing is, I even forgot to buy lvl11 and 12 spells.

 

Obviously me and the guy on top are PVP gods, no?

[Bullsith]

well were is the problem? i can survive 2 enemies, and what can i else? i cant kill them, they cant kill me? sounds fair? and i cant keep myself alive and my whole party...

 

IMO you shouldn't even survive one if you aren't properly guarded, but I'm not pushing for skillcap healers, WoW pretty much proved how many healers actually stick around when they need to struggle with more than just spamming their heals mornically.

 

But between the bubble and the CC, force speed is just overdoing it. You can survive two DPS fine without it, if you can't (and I'm not talking about Operatives and scoundrels) then you might as well quit cause simply put, you fail.

[Halvos]

Please check the following screen shot I made yesterday.

http://tinypic.com/r/1zg5buw/5

 

Look at the guy on the top (I apologize that it does not show healing done).

OK. 500k damage did not impress you?

 

Now look at the character named Zinzu. That's my my brand new lvl12 sorc, doing 108k with only lightning and shock - 2 buttons.

The funny thing is, I even forgot to buy lvl11 and 12 spells.

 

Obviously me and the guy on top are PVP gods, no?

 

Cool story. My 15 Powertech had over 100k damage the other day too. Nerf them too I guess?

[Qlimitus]

Please check the following screen shot I made yesterday.

http://tinypic.com/r/1zg5buw/5

 

Look at the guy on the top (I apologize that it does not show healing done).

OK. 500k damage did not impress you?

 

Now look at the character named Zinzu. That's my my brand new lvl12 sorc, doing 108k with only lightning and shock - 2 buttons.

The funny thing is, I even forgot to buy lvl11 and 12 spells.

 

Obviously me and the guy on top are PVP gods, no?

 

1 word,adrens/stime/health = OP

That will all change in 1.1 you'll see.

[Mythicrose]

During the level-up grind, I thought in 1 vs 1 combat a sorc vs me (sniper) was grossly favored toward the sorc. That class seemed to get a lot of its better abilities sooner than my sniper.

 

At level 50, a 1 vs 1 doesn't really appear to favor either my sniper or a sorc. If the sorc is madness or lightning spec, it's definately a dps race. It is funny to sometimes to kill the sorc then die from DoTs afterwards. The healers don't do squat in a 1 vs 1 against my sniper, but can be a real pain in the butt to kill as I have one true interrupt on a 13 second cooldown. Terrain can change that with LoS issues, but that isn't a class balance issue.

 

In group play, a well played sorc can be a real game changer with its bubbles, heals (if spec'd), lightning snare/slow, pull, sprint, etc. I'm not too familiar with the class, but I think it's the madness tree that's all the rave right now for DoTs. I see many sorcs just dotting up the melee furball then LoSing anyone taking potshots at them (then generally using their single healing ability to heal up real quick). That's fine as well and actually good play on their part and something a Lethality operative or lethality sniper (to a lesser degree) can do as well to top damage charts.

 

The only classes I have a real hard beating as a sniper are concealment operatives and commandos. Operatives can take me down below half health with their opener then finish me off before I can do too much damage to them. Commandos just seem to out dps me with the grav round spam, cyro grenade + heal (if my entrench is on cooldown). That's a L2p issue on my end, though.

[Slechtvalk]

IMO you shouldn't even survive one if you aren't properly guarded,

 

that is something you wish, and its good that its not developed like this.

 

and if you read further on, i corrected myself, that i meant i am normally able to heal out the damage of 2.

 

and this does make sense, 2 enemies on one of us and me healing means 2 ppl on both side busy.

 

the rest has been said alot by many people, but i dont expect everyone to understand it.