Repefe Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 PvP in TOR is fun ... and tomorrow should be 1.1 and 10-49 brackets, so the whole OP is kind if rant of things of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tindin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I really enjoyed Warhammer pvp... I did not enjoy the year and a half nerfest on Magus and the buff fest on Bright Wizard. PVP in this game will get better, just got to give it time. I just wish they would lock features off when there was clearly an issue instead of allowing people to exploit the hell out of crap first. +1 post nicely said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 But for match making it would be flawed. I'll use myself as an example. I really wanted to PvP all the way through my levels, but I was playing with a friend who was not interested in doing it. I ended up PvP'ing far less on my main than I wanted to, and spent a lot of time doing it on alts so I wouldn't out level him by much. Now I'm 50 and only 3-4 pieces of my gear do not have expertise on them, but my valor is only in the high 30's. I see plenty of people well below my level on my server who have titles indicating a much higher level of valor than I do. So in that regard, valor is not an accurate indication of my knowledge, and not my expertise gear either (even more so since the reward system is somewhat random), which would make it no indicator for match making. This is what the OP needs to realize. I agree with you. If they wanted to make valor the bracketing requirement, the logical step would be making the pvp gear buyable with no RNG component, and Valor as the way to be able to buy said gear. Sadly, this is not a viable option now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambert Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Valor rank is not indicative of skill, just time invested, and in regards to gear, it's just a roll of the dice every time you open bag. At V59 I see people all the time who are around the same level or higher who have no clue about PvP, easy in 1v1, clueless in Warzone maps. They've simply had more time to grind out the valor. Likewise, one of my premade friends is V58 and runs around in Centurion gear since he has had next to no drops from the RNG gods. Personally I'm at a slight tipping point with PvP at the moment, it's been fun for a long while but now near 60 it's feeling stale, I'm glad new WZs and ranked matches are coming into play shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quesa Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Progression is for PvE, not for PvP. If people want better gear than others, that's PvGear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tindin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Valor rank is not indicative of skill, just time invested, and in regards to gear, it's just a roll of the dice every time you open bag. At V59 I see people all the time who are around the same level or higher who have no clue about PvP, easy in 1v1, clueless in Warzone maps. They've simply had more time to grind out the valor. Likewise, one of my premade friends is V58 and runs around in Centurion gear since he has had next to no drops from the RNG gods. Personally I'm at a slight tipping point with PvP at the moment, it's been fun for a long while but now near 60 it's feeling stale, I'm glad new WZs and ranked matches are coming into play shortly. i think thats why they didnt release then right way so that way they could later to keep ppl as they worked out the bugs Edited January 16, 2012 by tindin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesMcLeod Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 PvP in TOR is fun ... and tomorrow should be 1.1 and 10-49 brackets, so the whole OP is kind if rant of things of the past. Nope, you just failed to recognize what I was saying. I'm not talking about PvE levels here, I was only using that as an analogy. This is quite a lesson for me though -- the American school system fails completely at critical reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellvaan Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Greetings everyone! We recently removed several posts from this thread for not being in compliance with our Rules of Conduct. While we do welcome all feedback, both positive and negative, we ask that your feedback be constructive. For better understanding on helpful feedback, please refer to this thrad by Allison Berryman. Hi Everyone! Part of our goal for the Star Wars: The Old Republic community is to ensure that our Forums are a great place to come to discuss all aspects of the game, and to make them a friendly environment for our players. We welcome all kinds of constructive discussion and feedback, but want to remind everyone that we expect your posts to be: ConstructiveHelpfulRespectful If you haven’t done so recently, you might want to review the Rules of Conduct, which we do enforce on the Forums. While we absolutely welcome constructive feedback regarding the game, we’ve seen many threads recently that are not constructive or helpful. We encourage you to share ideas about what you’d like to see in the game, but will not permit discussions that do not have any constructive suggestions or content, or those that are made solely to trash the game or community or offer no topic for discussion. Our developers and the Community Team are always reading the forums and gathering your feedback, but constructive criticism is much more useful to us than posts that have no explanations or details and suggestions. Constructive, well-reasoned feedback that offers specific suggestions about what you as players would like to see is extremely useful to us, and we’d like to see more feedback of this nature. However, feedback that states “this game sucks” and doesn’t offer actual suggestions about how to improve the game is not useful and only serves to incite argument, which in turn can make the forums very unfriendly to those who are looking to constructively discuss the game. We will be closing more threads that do not offer constructive feedback or have degenerated into unhelpful flame wars. We expect everyone on the Forums to respect each other, even when disagreeing, and will not tolerate insults or disrespectful posts. Please remember to use the flag feature to report posts that violate the rules to our Community Representatives – don’t fight! Responding in kind to someone who has broken the rules only makes a thread worse. We want to work with you to improve the Forums experience and to encourage constructive discussion, and we look forward to your feedback! We encourage you to please be constructive and civil in your posts. If rude and insulting behavior continues, we will be closing this thread. As a reminder, please keep the following in mind when replying: Insults - Please do not resort to or use them in any way in your posts. Posts should be productive, not destructive. Trolling - Please do not post messages that are purposefully designed to provoke, antagonize, or otherwise elicit a negative emotional response. Agree to Disagree - Be respectful of others' viewpoints even if they are opposite of your own. Discuss disagreements constructively. Flag, Don't Fight - Utilize the Flag Post feature to report possible rules violations, rather than responding to or fighting them. Ignoring - If you feel you simply cannot get along with another community member, please place them on your ignore list. Thank you! Edited January 16, 2012 by Ellvaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesMcLeod Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Interesting, so what I've realized tonight is that SWTOR is an amalgamation of all the scum that made the World of Warcraft community insufferable, all the problems that used to plague World of Warcraft, none of its polish with a dash of nothing to do at end game. I think if I hadn't gotten this game as a gift, I would be pretty angry right now. Hopefully the new patch will change my mind about this game, and hopefully they patch the PvP system eventually so it's as fun as I had hoped it would be. Edited January 16, 2012 by MilesMcLeod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tindin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It's really very basic. If you're a casual player who doesn't have the time to farm out tokens and get great gear, then when that player goes up against somebody who does, they'll always lose. There's no skill needed, it's all based on gear. Yet every company that makes an MMO falls into the same basic trap -- just throw everybody into the same PvP match and let them deal with it. How hard is it to realize that if you group people up by some kind of PvP rank, they'll have more fun. You wouldn't build a game where a level 1 player has to face a level 50 NPC and defeat them, now would you? So why shouldn't PvP work the same way? Why should Bioware expect somebody at Valor rank 1 to face off against somebody at Valor rank 50 and expect there to be any modicum of a fair fight? It seems like Bioware has all the tools at its disposal to make this game fun, but throws them out the window so they can be like Blizzard. At least Blizzard didn't make the mistake of giving every single class several stuns, roots and knock backs. Thanks for the armature job, Bioware. sorry that you think valor, gear and skill are all the same thing. but they are not. valor is not xp for pvp. gear is not based on skill. and skill does play a part in pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurisnoctis Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I am hopeless in my quest of civil debate. People on both sides fail to read properly or to consider the other side may be right. So many off topic remarks such as educational institutions are coming into play, which serve no purpose, as I for one, have never let schooling get in the way of my education. I withdraw from this meaningless debate, and sincerely hope any Developer while reading this, does verily choose to ignore this thread outright. Good night and see you in Huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ademnus Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 there's no real benefit to farming the other team, you cost yourself an additional win bonus, and even the games where i go 11-12 medals, the gain rate is essentially an exponential decay, i can make 4 in 1 minute, 6 by 3, 8 by 5, 9 by 7, etc 6-7 medals in a 6 minute win and do it twice is better. yeh he's just farming his ego lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tindin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Interesting, so what I've realized tonight is that SWTOR is an amalgamation of all the scum that made the World of Warcraft community insufferable, all the problems that used to plague World of Warcraft, none of its polish with a dash of nothing to do at end game. I think if I hadn't gotten this game as a gift, I would be pretty angry right now. from the sounds of it you are pretty mad...i would glady talk to you about it but i'm sure i have had enough warning for one day... oh and this isnt wow....we have sabers and lasers that go pew pew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It's really very basic. If you're a casual player who doesn't have the time to farm out tokens and get great gear, then when that player goes up against somebody who does, they'll always lose. There's no skill needed, it's all based on gear. Yet every company that makes an MMO falls into the same basic trap -- just throw everybody into the same PvP match and let them deal with it. How hard is it to realize that if you group people up by some kind of PvP rank, they'll have more fun. You wouldn't build a game where a level 1 player has to face a level 50 NPC and defeat them, now would you? So why shouldn't PvP work the same way? Why should Bioware expect somebody at Valor rank 1 to face off against somebody at Valor rank 50 and expect there to be any modicum of a fair fight? It seems like Bioware has all the tools at its disposal to make this game fun, but throws them out the window so they can be like Blizzard. At least Blizzard didn't make the mistake of giving every single class several stuns, roots and knock backs. Thanks for the armature job, Bioware. Cause obviously in every other game the person that dedicates the most time to the game doesnt have an advantage..... Hey wanna play Modern Warfare 3 with my lvl 75 machine gun? Oh wait we cant exercise to play soccer, it gives an unfair advantage to those that dont! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesMcLeod Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Greetings everyone! We recently removed several posts from this thread for not being in compliance with our Rules of Conduct. While we do welcome all feedback, both positive and negative, we ask that your feedback be constructive. For better understanding on helpful feedback, please refer to this thrad by Allison Berryman. That's great! Because I was just laughing at the hilarity that was being given a warning for treating people exactly the same way they were treating me. Thanks for cleaning it all up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) That's great! Because I was just laughing at the hilarity that was being given a warning for treating people exactly the same way they were treating me. Thanks for cleaning it all up! When you learn to agree to disagree, then everything will be A-OK. edit: I didn't any warnings. ;D Edited January 16, 2012 by AGoldCrayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandTrout Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Cause obviously in every other game the person that dedicates the most time to the game doesnt have an advantage..... Hey wanna play Modern Warfare 3 with my lvl 75 machine gun? Oh wait we cant exercise to play soccer, it gives an unfair advantage to those that dont! Look at it this way too: If someone has a max-level character, do they stop playing it because they can't progress it any more? I can't speak for MW, but that certainly isn't true in any of the BF game that I've played. People get their character to max level, unlock all the tools, and just play with all the tools because it's fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesMcLeod Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Cause obviously in every other game the person that dedicates the most time to the game doesnt have an advantage..... Hey wanna play Modern Warfare 3 with my lvl 75 machine gun? Oh wait we cant exercise to play soccer, it gives an unfair advantage to those that dont! Or you could try to be constructive instead of only being sarcastic. Maybe you could also try to understand the argument too. That grouping people into similarities helps make the game more fun for everybody (except those people who really enjoy one-sided fights). No, this isn't only about a team exercising more than another. Would you put a kindergarden soccer team against a professional one? Who cares if the kindergardeners are just starting out and haven't had the time to catch up with the professional team! They'll obviously learn how to beat the other team eventually, and they won't get discouraged at all! /sarcasm Edited January 16, 2012 by MilesMcLeod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaku Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Do you really not see the correlation between valor level and gear? There is a correlation, but that's all it is, a correlation. A valor rank 20 player could be in full champ gear because he was extremely lucky, while someone at valor rank 60 could have 50 implants. People get their character to max level, unlock all the tools, and just play with all the tools because it's fun. That might have been true for MMO's 10 years ago, when they were niche. Not so much now. Edited January 16, 2012 by Jaku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Or you could try to be constructive instead of only being sarcastic. Maybe you could also try to understand the argument too. That grouping people into similarities helps make the game more fun for everybody (except those people who really enjoy one-sided fights). No, this isn't only about a team exercising more than another. Would you put a kindergarden soccer team against a professional one? Who cares if the kindergardeners are just starting out and haven't had the time to catch up with the professional team! The gap is not as big as you make it out to seem. You have an obvious bias against all pvp in mmo's. BW will make changes as they see fit. I think I've covered all the relevent points here. As much as I'd like to stay and chat longer, I'm getting off of work soon, so toodles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldawg Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Although I do agree that the Valor rating system(as the closest possible thing to a grade of skill / experience in pvp) should be taken into account when constructing pvp teams to oppose each other in warzones, AND it would ensure there is more of a balance and therefore a more fun experience for most. Another factor to take into account is the number of players that are signing up at any given time. I mean I dont want to be having to wait forever in a day for a mini to pop. Having said this I think cross server WZ games could solve this. I would preferably see further pvp class balance implementations done as a priority. and also regarding biochem is very frustrating in minis at present, why not implement a system where stims and special medpacs etc can be purchased with WZ comms instead and level the playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmy_DB Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I've always had the view that: The best pvp gear should be crafted. Raid gear should give huge set bunuses which are used to gate raid tiers - but those set bonuses do not apply to pvp Result is that high-end pve gear keeps progressing for pve content, but PVP at lvl50 is all on a level playing field (barring skill/teamplay etc.) Yet gear for pvp does matter since fitting the gear to your required stats is just as important as your skill builds. (ie. do I want tank gear or dps? Do I focus on crit or Aim etc.) It also gives crafters a purpose in a raid-centric game. But no-one ever listens to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Or you could try to be constructive instead of only being sarcastic. Maybe you could also try to understand the argument too. That grouping people into similarities helps make the game more fun for everybody (except those people who really enjoy one-sided fights). No, this isn't only about a team exercising more than another. Would you put a kindergarden soccer team against a professional one? Who cares if the kindergardeners are just starting out and haven't had the time to catch up with the professional team! They'll obviously learn how to beat the other team eventually, and they won't get discouraged at all! /sarcasm Talking of kindergarden wanna play my lvl 14 rogue in wow? Were ppl of similar lvls are grouped up together? Ill one shot u. And guess what u won't be able to do nothing to kill me. This is not the case between lvl 10-49 characters here, sure u don't have all the tools at ur disposal but u still have a shot if ur smart. (I've seen lvl 10 mercs blow a lvl 48 sw) Besides I'm assuming even IF there were valor brackets, ud still QQ about non-clickers facing clickers, etc. Conclusion: lvl 50 only brackets is as good as it gets /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandTrout Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 That might have been true for MMO's 10 years ago, when they were niche. Not so much now.Well, it's a good thing I'm talking about a non-niche shooter that is out right now and has a huge customer base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlordomega Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I hear ya, OP. Every single wow clone I've played had this kind of PVP. Grind over skill. GW2 will be gear independent. We'll see how it plays out. Every wow clone? yes we can tell you havnt played many mmo's for very long. you think wow came up with it all lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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