AzKnc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You chose one of the few WoW classes that can do it all. Most are not like that. And you picked the only swtor class that changes the most between acs, most are not like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphix Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) No one is asking to switch classes, people are asking to switch between what are basically just specs. Why should they need to offer any compromise? They aren't basically just specs. You can't define mechanics how you wish and demand a choice. You are asking them to change something that goes against the way the game is designed and say that you're entitled to a switch because how you define specs? Do you offer any compromise when you switch your talent spec? No. Well this is no different, it's just that bioware decided to put your other spec under another form and call it advanced class as a sort of bad joke to make you waste more time, time you pay for. You're talking about 3 different trees, this isn't just a skill reset. They did this to conserve the story, voicing, and try to save some on the millions they where already spending. You want them to compromise the integrity of their class system because you rolled the wrong class? Edited January 31, 2012 by Sapphix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Darkl Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think there is a bigger problem then needing a AC respec. They are as follows. #1 Too much Voice Overs and time spent with Voice Overs #2 The Same Quest besides the story line between the different classes #3 the Same Story line if you try to role a character of the same class #4 Why I am on the same planets at the same level for everything I do? An MMO needs to feel like an MMO, right now SWTOR does not. Yes it is not a sandbox MMO, however this game is too linear and you take the same Path to on every character for both sides. You do the same Planets in the same order EVERYTIME. This gets boring and few people want to make alts. This is bad for a game which people hit 50 in less then a week. Why would ANYONE want to do the same line of planets with the SAME EXACT quest everytime outside of your class quest? Some Games are like this yes however honestly Its boring and will not hold my interested for long. The reason I played WoW for so long I could choose between 3 level 11 - 19 Zones, I could go to 3 or 4 Zones at level 20 - 29. I had variety, so I do not get bored doing the same quest on Hoth 8 times over. Yes the Planets are very Large however I dont care about that when I have to do the same planets over and over. In WoW Yea I did some zones 2 or 3 times, however I did the in different order and I kept the content fresher. Right now the content is getting stale after only a month Next is the problem with the Voice overs. Yea they are great for the storyline class quest. They suck you right in, but really the whole game. The interaction between your character and all the quest NPCs gets boring. Too much time is wasted with NPC immersion, hell I will not ever do Black Talon again because its too much time wasted watching when I want to play for the few hours I have a week to play. wow a 20 GB game with a ton of voice overs, not appealing a huge waste of money. If I want this much interaction with NPCS I will play Never Winter Nights 2, yes I have the game and can only play for so long before I get bored of the NPC interaction. I can see why you want to respec ACs now. Really I do not want to level this content over again. Its really boring. I want to see different surroundings I do not want to see the same surroundings on EVERY Character I level up. One last thing. I dont think leveling a new character for the 2nd AC of a class would be so bad if you could experience new different content. Along with having 16 slot servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 And you picked the only swtor class that changes the most between acs, most are not like that. Half of them are, half of them are not. Guardian vs Sentinel, Vanguard vs Commando - very similar in playstyle Gunslinger vs Scoundrel, Shadow vs Sage - very different in playstyle Same applies for Empire. Your example uses two classes out of ten in WoW. 50% is more convincing than 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) And you picked the only swtor class that changes the most between acs, most are not like that. Commando/Vanguard Sage/Shadow Sniper/Operative Pretty much all of them are different by a large amount. Edited January 31, 2012 by MikelGoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzKnc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Commando/Vanguard Sentinel/Sage Sniper/Operative Pretty much all of them are different by a large amount. And so are their different trees in the SAME ac, so what's your point exactly? And go edit Sentinel/Sage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 And so are their different trees in the SAME ac, so what's your point exactly? And go edit Sentinel/Sage.. You're right, I botched a name. There is 1 tree similar, the other two are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznthecapn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 at best the population is split 50/50 on this Not to be argumentative but its far more weighted towards the "no". I participate in every one of these threads to pop up and the resounding response is always "no" with a minority saying "yes" and another, smaller, minority saying "let's compromise". I'm in the compromise category but the guy you're quoting would rather get angry and personal than read and apply rational discourse. I'm all for people being able to change AC as they level in an effort to figure out which they prefer. It should be expensive and limited but allowed. Once you hit max level, you pick one and move on. If you want the other, roll the class from scratch. I'm also not opposed to getting level 10s through the Legacy system if you have a level 50 of the opposing AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzKnc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Half of them are, half of them are not. Guardian vs Sentinel, Vanguard vs Commando - very similar in playstyle Gunslinger vs Scoundrel, Shadow vs Sage - very different in playstyle Same applies for Empire. Your example uses two classes out of ten in WoW. 50% is more convincing than 20%. Half of them is enough. As for the wow percentages jibber jabber, pala shaman druid and upcoming monk all play insanely differently depending on tree, making for more than 40% of the classes, not that it has any relevance. Also note that those classes actually CHANGE the way their resource mechanic is handled or resource mechanic all togheter depending on spec, while on swtor the mechanic is always the same between acs except for sage/shadow which is the only exception, and, using your logic 3 classes (out of 4) are more convincing than 1 (out of 4). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) An MMO needs to feel like an MMO, right now SWTOR does not. Yes it is not a sandbox MMO, however this game is too linear and you take the same Path to on every character for both sides. I disagree with much what you wrote.. I also think you might be missing the spirit of this game.. . So let's just start with these statements of opinion.. Where is it written that every game must feel the same as another?? Why should one MMO feel like another?? Who determines this?? SWTOR is an MMO and it is a very good MMO.. The difference is, it isn't like WOW, Rift, or countless others.. It is different.. If different is not for you then perhaps SWTOR isn't for you.. Nobody should be asking for things to change it to something the game is simply not.. It is like asking for the Master Chief in Halo to wear blue over alls and jump and squish his enemies instead of shoot them.. If you want to play Mario Bros., then go ahead.. But don't attempt to turn Halo in to Mario bros. or SWTOR into Rift, WOW, LOTR, or any other for that matter.. SWTOR is it's own game.. The game is linear.. Ever read a book or watch a movie that wasn't?? It is called story.. Bioware has made no secrets about this game being about story.. For someone to expect a game based on story to not be linear is a bit odd in my book.. SWTOR was never intended to be a sandbox MMO.. SWTOR was is almost totally based on story and a story driven MMO is going to be linear.. The bottom line here is people either need to accept what SWTOR is and what it was meant to be.. Or just accept that SWTOR may not be for them.. Like many others.. I like SWTOR.. I don't want this game to be like WOW, or Rift, or any other MMO.. I want this game to be what it is.. I am having a blast.. There is no need for AC respeccing.. There simply isn't.. There is no need for anyone to demand that this game be made into what it isn't.. There simply isn't. Edited January 31, 2012 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok_bloodcraft Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ok AC are not different specs look at the talent trees those are specs. you can already respec them if you feel you made a mistake. You can also view the ac's talent trees before you choose ac to see if it is what you want, then someone giving you the ac asks if you are sure as you can NEVER change it. and for pro ac change people how about you do us all a favor and do some research or go away now instead of a month from now if you really don't want to make an alt or play a second character you won't stay long. So why would bioware alienate it's long term fan base because you got bored a week early? Either play the game and enjoy what is there or move to the next mmo and tell them how to be like wow or whatever other game suits your fancy. Hopefully you can see that the members who will stay for years and those here until they get another paycheck to buy a different game are both represented in this thread and you can tell which is which. And for those who can't understand the above portion. I would like to offer a new game called Faceroll. It's really simple you target an enemy type /faceroll and it dies. or click on your own character and type /faceroll and you are max lv with the best gear. or you access the crafting pane and type /faceroll to max crafting skills and givve all recipes but they don't need mats they just give free stuff. Oh but these features don't hurt anybody if you don't want to use them then just don't type /faceroll and it's not a problem. this has been the logic of this thread all the way through. But yes it does hurt people. People who Actually worked for something and that feeling of accomplishment helps them deal with having a crappy life. It hurts the people who have pride in themselve for not facerolling everything because they need an easy button for life. It hurts everyone who struggled through a healer so they could do fun stuff at end game only to discover everyone can heal dps and tank any endgame place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecrologyX Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 this has been the logic of this thread all the way through. But yes it does hurt people. People who Actually worked for something and that feeling of accomplishment helps them deal with having a crappy life. It hurts the people who have pride in themselve for not facerolling everything because they need an easy button for life. It hurts everyone who struggled through a healer so they could do fun stuff at end game only to discover everyone can heal dps and tank any endgame place. 1 - I have a 50 Sage as my main. Right now for end game shes a healer. I didnt "slug through the game" as a healer, I was pure dps until I hit 50 then respecced. 2 - just because you have a spec that can tank/heal/dps doesnt mean you are going to. I dont know enough about this game (cause there are no meters/logs and its way too new) but at least in wow I have known Amazing healers/tanks who respec DPS and are just bad. I've know DPS who have gone on to be some of the most amazing tanks/healers I have ever met. Personally, on my priest in wow I can play Spriest rather well and Disc enough for non heroic raids (and some heroic fights too) but I go holy and I am just terrible. Should you NEVER be able to go holy cause I'm bad? That makes no sense. 3 - If these ACs had different story arcs and new mechanics I'd whole heartedly agree. I'm not advocating that a smuggler be allowed to respec into a jedi guardian, just let me play the smuggler as I want to play them. 4 - for me personally, and I know some will agree and some wont, I know I will never level 4 of the 8 ACs cause as other people have said this game is VERY story driven. I just dont want to redo the story, and I dont (at this time) want to reroll Imperial cause then I cant play with my friends unless they reroll too - and I cant make them reroll if they dont wanna 5 - The more things I can do at 50 the more enjoyment I personally will have with the game. Would be nice to play with my friends when our tank has to go do RL stuff and we have a commando/sage/sentinel who would gladly respec to vanguard/shadow/guardian and drop plenty of creds on the AH for a working second set but cant. I know I wll get flamed saying "this isnt wow" or "vanguard to commando is like mage to rogue" but its truly not. Its like boomkin to feral druid. There is soooo much potential here to fix one of the HUGE pitfalls of wow (lack of heals/tanks) cause there are only 4 classes instead of 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 People should just stop their QQ and realize that Advanced CLASS change will NOT become an option, it was never meant to become one in the first place, and that's a good thing really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leatherbeak Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I dont see any reason to not allow an AC change. Nor do I think there should be any penalty other than money. Not sure why this is a big deal. I also will not care if it is never implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FooBard Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 All I want to say on this is.... No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWImara Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hopefully if they start putting in big changes like this they run surveys in game or something rather than letting the forums shape development plans. I'd prefer not to see AC respecs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mormoz Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 OK there is the pro Toggle God Mode response. "So I want to be lazy and invincible and do way more dps so I can faceroll this game and move to the next one. What's wrond with that?" You sir are obviously a gentleman and a scholar but maybe have been hitting the spice a bit too much. And where did you pull that from? You suggested that the people that are pro-AC change are lazy, because they don't want to do the entire levelling again. My response to that was that it is our damn good right to be lazy when playing a game for our amusement. What has that to do anything with 'invincible and do way more dps so I can faceroll this game'? I believe you said something about hitting the spice a bit too much, good sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubberDoll Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 im up for it or create dual spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 And where did you pull that from? You suggested that the people that are pro-AC change are lazy, because they don't want to do the entire levelling again. My response to that was that it is our damn good right to be lazy when playing a game for our amusement. What has that to do anything with 'invincible and do way more dps so I can faceroll this game'? I believe you said something about hitting the spice a bit too much, good sir? Its your right to be lazy, but that doesn't mean you can magically have a new AC because of your laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 And where did you pull that from? You suggested that the people that are pro-AC change are lazy, because they don't want to do the entire levelling again. My response to that was that it is our damn good right to be lazy when playing a game for our amusement. What has that to do anything with 'invincible and do way more dps so I can faceroll this game'? I believe you said something about hitting the spice a bit too much, good sir? But it isn't right to demand the game be ruined for the rest of us.. You have a right to be lazy and make that choice.. But that choice should only effect you.. I did not make that choice and I don't mind rolling another character to try out a different class.. I fail to see why anyone else would.. It is contrary to the concept of classes when we can change our classes at will.. To satify this self admitted laziness.. We may as well have no class at all.. No need for alts.. No need for specs.. Isn't that easy mode?? Like he said.. Do you want an invincibility button as well?? How easy does BW have to make this game?? I wish they would go back old school.. When you die you had to run back to your corpse without gear until you reclaimed it where you died.. I wish this game is much harder than it is.. But that is me.. Have a nice day.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphix Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I also want to respec my inquisitor to a warrior... or wait, even better can I just make him a jedi knight!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper_One Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I'm going to say no. Advanced classes are treated as unique and separate classes, and switching them would cause much bigger head-aches than just leaving them as-is. Imagine a player leveling up a Vanguard. He's gotten a pretty decent level, but then he decides he doesn't want to be a Vanguard anymore; he wants to be a commando instead. Lets say, hypothetically, that he's allowed to switch. Now guess what? His awesome rifle he's been upgrading? His gear that's been built for endurance, his personal shield, all of it is now useless. Commandos are better off with more Aim than more Endurance. He now has to find a new weapon (since his rifle isn't nearly as powerful as a blaster cannon) find new mods for his armor, and, depending on which crew skills he chose, may need to even change his crew skills. Switching advanced classes isn't just changing some of your stats; it involves a complete reversal of your character. Imagine switching from Juggernaut to Marauder and finding out all of your heavy armor is now blocked from you. Imagine trying to switch to entirely different play-style (like the aforementioned Vanguard to Commando switch) after getting used to a certain method of play. It would be disastrous. You'd end up with tons of players who switched at the higher levels who have no idea how to play their new character. You'd end up with Marauder's who were still in the tanker mentality, now knowing the particular strengths and weaknesses of their new class. How about a Sniper switching to an Operative? His main cover tactic is now far less useful, and his personal cover shield is now gone. Advanced classes are essentially completely separate classes all their own. Switching from one to the other would have a very negative effect on the game and it's players. If you don't like the class you are now, just roll an alt. That's what they're for. Edited February 1, 2012 by Trooper_One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookami Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 People should just stop their QQ and realize that Advanced CLASS change will NOT become an option, it was never meant to become one in the first place, and that's a good thing really. You, and others, keep saying this... but no one except the Devs know if it will come to pass or not. It's been stated before in interviews by the devs that they will look into making this an option for players. However, untill I see a Blue/Gold post saying they are or are not implementing this, you and eveyone that keep posting that "Advanced CLASS change will NOT become an option" are just stating conjecture. Also, I'm still trying to wrap my head around why people keep bringing WoW into these SWToR discussions. WoW != SWToR, especially the Class/Advance Class system, can we just stop compairing the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookami Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I also want to respec my inquisitor to a warrior... or wait, even better can I just make him a jedi knight!? Well in that case you do need to re roll. Inquisitor != Sith Warrior, and I don't think they allow faction changes yet. However changing from Sorceror to Assassin I see no problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphix Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Well in that case you do need to re roll. Inquisitor != Sith Warrior, and I don't think they allow faction changes yet. However changing from Sorceror to Assassin I see no problem with. IMO Inquisitors and Warriors are as equal as assassins and sorcerers. If you guys get to respec advanced class, I'd like to switch to a warrior. They both are siths are they not? It seems only fair considering the core of this disagreement is the misinterpretation of how SWTOR class system works. You guys feel that Assassins and Sorcerers are the same, likewise I'd like to argue that Inquisitors and Warriors are just as similar and should have the same options. Edited February 1, 2012 by Sapphix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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