Lywald Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) So let's compare with WoW 2005 instead. WoW 2005: - Massive 40+ sometimes 80+ people mounted raids in the Crossroads, in Ashenvale - Night and day PvP in Tarren Mill, in the Plaguelands, in Tyr and Light's hope chapel (Vurtne's videos) - Constant guerilla warfare in Stranglethorn (Nesingwary's expedition) - 10 hours long 40vs40 Alterac, with epic fights on the alliance bridge - Blackrock mountain, where PvE Raids and PvP people attacked each other every day to go to MC - 40-man PvE guilds attacking each other in front of world bosses (Azuregos, Kazzak) - Skirmishes in Gadgetzan (Tanaris), in Booty bay, and in front of capitals where people duel - Occasional skirmishes in front of WSG entrances - 80-man large scale raids on capitals, and stealth 40-man raids to Thunderbluff/Darnassus bosses - Occasional stealth commandos in enemy capital streets (with annoying rogues killing the AH Npcs) - Improvised open PvP in any attacked city thanks to the Global defense channel TOR 2012: - 8-man Huttball Edited January 14, 2012 by Lywald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norr Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You forgot; Unplayable frame rates for around half the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltprudii Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Wow release date November 23, 2004. First BGs Warsong and AV in Patch release date 1.5 June 7, 2005. Your argument is moot. Edited January 14, 2012 by ltprudii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphas Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Now you made me all nostalgic and even more sad at what a wasted opportunity this game is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lywald Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Wow release date November 23, 2004. First BGs Warsong and AV in Patch release date 1.5 June 7, 2005. Your argument is moot. You mean that 2 of my 11 points are moot. But good catch. Can't wait for the Bioware's 40vs40 warzone coming in 6 months. Edited January 14, 2012 by Lywald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanishedSith Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 That's nice.. Have fun playing WoW or just don't complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphas Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You mean that 2 of my 11 points are moot. But good catch. Can't wait for the Bioware's 40vs40 warzone coming in 6 months. Whats really sad is even if they wanted to make that, they cant. Game goes to **** with more than 20 ppl fighting. 8v8 small as **** is all you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangara Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Yes WoW and Tor are different in respect to what's coming out when. But don't forget it took WoW nearly into BC to actually really start figuring out how to patch and what to patch. Tor was just released give them time. Imho WoW still has major issues in Cata that are being completely ignored. But my point is, WoW 12 years running, Tor not even a month. GIVE THEM TIME TO WORK OUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED INSTEAD OF QQING ABOUT EVERY SMALL DETAIL. there are larger problems then not enough world PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halphas Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Yes WoW and Tor are different in respect to what's coming out when. But don't forget it took WoW nearly into BC to actually really start figuring out how to patch and what to patch. Tor was just released give them time. Imho WoW still has major issues in Cata that are being completely ignored. But my point is, WoW 12 years running, Tor not even a month. GIVE THEM TIME TO WORK OUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED INSTEAD OF QQING ABOUT EVERY SMALL DETAIL. there are larger problems then not enough world PvP. They can have all the time they want. Just not gonna pay them for what they currently offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyllama Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Wow release date November 23, 2004. First BGs Warsong and AV in Patch release date 1.5 June 7, 2005. Your argument is moot. Actually any game from here forward completely has the ability to use WoW's progress in MMORPGs as a template to make their own game. This comparison is wrong because all the progress that WoW made over the years can easily be emulated. You know what, your comparing the game available to you NOW to WoW NOW. That is the pure and simple case. I love how everyone argues that this game will "eventually" be better then WoW, simple truth is if it is not that game now, it will fail... Welcome to Capitalism. Edited January 15, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisai Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Even though it is a sort of troll post he is right. If bioware doesnt change some things about this game really fast it is well on its way to become the most expensive failure ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocbo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Yes WoW and Tor are different in respect to what's coming out when. But don't forget it took WoW nearly into BC to actually really start figuring out how to patch and what to patch. Tor was just released give them time. Imho WoW still has major issues in Cata that are being completely ignored. But my point is, WoW 12 years running, Tor not even a month. GIVE THEM TIME TO WORK OUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED INSTEAD OF QQING ABOUT EVERY SMALL DETAIL. there are larger problems then not enough world PvP. I have found the one sane person left in these forums Yes the game has some problems, okay a lot of problems, but mmo's are still new to bio-ware so they need some time to get to know the code and prioritize. Bear in mind that galaxies was kept running on a cult following and the merit of being a star wars game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalFortune Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 So let's compare with WoW 2005 instead. WoW 2005: - Massive 40+ sometimes 80+ people mounted raids in the Crossroads, in Ashenvale - Night and day PvP in Tarren Mill, in the Plaguelands, in Tyr and Light's hope chapel (Vurtne's videos) - Constant guerilla warfare in Stranglethorn (Nesingwary's expedition) - 10 hours long 40vs40 Alterac, with epic fights on the alliance bridge - Blackrock mountain, where PvE Raids and PvP people attacked each other every day to go to MC - 40-man PvE guilds attacking each other in front of world bosses (Azuregos, Kazzak) - Skirmishes in Gadgetzan (Tanaris), in Booty bay, and in front of capitals where people duel - Occasional skirmishes in front of WSG entrances - 80-man large scale raids on capitals, and stealth 40-man raids to Thunderbluff/Darnassus bosses - Occasional stealth commandos in enemy capital streets (with annoying rogues killing the AH Npcs) - Improvised open PvP in any attacked city thanks to the Global defense channel TOR 2012: - 8-man Huttball Yes it is indeed very sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivianchief Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 So let's compare with WoW 2005 instead. WoW 2005: - Massive 40+ sometimes 80+ people mounted raids in the Crossroads, in Ashenvale - Night and day PvP in Tarren Mill, in the Plaguelands, in Tyr and Light's hope chapel (Vurtne's videos) - Constant guerilla warfare in Stranglethorn (Nesingwary's expedition) - 10 hours long 40vs40 Alterac, with epic fights on the alliance bridge - Blackrock mountain, where PvE Raids and PvP people attacked each other every day to go to MC - 40-man PvE guilds attacking each other in front of world bosses (Azuregos, Kazzak) - Skirmishes in Gadgetzan (Tanaris), in Booty bay, and in front of capitals where people duel - Occasional skirmishes in front of WSG entrances - 80-man large scale raids on capitals, and stealth 40-man raids to Thunderbluff/Darnassus bosses - Occasional stealth commandos in enemy capital streets (with annoying rogues killing the AH Npcs) - Improvised open PvP in any attacked city thanks to the Global defense channel TOR 2012: - 8-man Huttball Basically true, but you should mention that you just described the peak of WoW. It didn't get any better after 2005... actually worse. In addition you should mention that, while taking a better turn in PvP, WoW was a totally boring game in terms of lvling and questing. Getting your char to 60 was as much fun as cutting your veins in the bathtub. It was only that PvP that made it worthwhile. Otherwise I would have quit after hitting 30... since it really was completely boring. (who didn't have instant quest text activated?) That is only my PoV of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulpatine Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 In addition you should mention that, while taking a better turn in PvP, WoW was a totally boring game in terms of lvling and questing. Ok. Now just try to lvl another toon on swtor, you'll have 5% good time with your class quest, 95% pointless grinding with empty and boring zones and noone in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivianchief Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ok. Now just try to lvl another toon on swtor, you'll have 5% good time with your class quest, 95% pointless grinding with empty and boring zones and noone in sight. I agree, but if you roll republic (or imp. depends on your first choice) you have an entirely new gaming atmosphere. Fact remains though that its still the better leveling game, by far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfwang Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) So let's compare with WoW 2005 instead. WoW 2005: - Massive 40+ sometimes 80+ people mounted raids in the Crossroads, in Ashenvale - Night and day PvP in Tarren Mill, in the Plaguelands, in Tyr and Light's hope chapel (Vurtne's videos) - Constant guerilla warfare in Stranglethorn (Nesingwary's expedition) - 10 hours long 40vs40 Alterac, with epic fights on the alliance bridge - Blackrock mountain, where PvE Raids and PvP people attacked each other every day to go to MC - 40-man PvE guilds attacking each other in front of world bosses (Azuregos, Kazzak) - Skirmishes in Gadgetzan (Tanaris), in Booty bay, and in front of capitals where people duel - Occasional skirmishes in front of WSG entrances - 80-man large scale raids on capitals, and stealth 40-man raids to Thunderbluff/Darnassus bosses - Occasional stealth commandos in enemy capital streets (with annoying rogues killing the AH Npcs) - Improvised open PvP in any attacked city thanks to the Global defense channel TOR 2012: - 8-man Huttball Wasn't expecting this damn bro, why'd you make me all nostalgic and stuff? The pvp in golden era WoW was a blast. Much of what swtor offers leaves a lot to be desired... I pretty much debated unsubbing the moment I first entered Ilum last week. I've never been chastised for killing the opposite faction before. Terrible game design. Bioware needs a new pvp team asap. Who thought up that garbage? And what genius decided to kill world pvp on pvp servers? Edited January 14, 2012 by golfwang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brolide Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Everyone complaining about world PvP, what, pray tell, do you want BW to do about it? People choose Empire, it seems most people want to explore Dark Side and what it has to offer. There are some minor imbalances between the factions, but the classes aren't so different that i necessitates "Empire or go home". Everyone is in an uproar because someone claimed that a Sorc spell went through armor and the Sage mirror spell didn't. That is false, they both consider armor. That being said, Bioware can't just magically make world PvP happen, they can only encourage it (which they are working on). Blizzard didn't do anything special before they added BG's to encourage PvP, there were just SOOOOOOOO many people on both sides trying to kill each other that it just happened. Let more people start playing and hopefully they will roll Republic to balance out the population imbalances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) So let's compare with WoW 2005 instead. WoW 2005: - Massive 40+ sometimes 80+ people mounted raids in the Crossroads, in Ashenvale - Night and day PvP in Tarren Mill, in the Plaguelands, in Tyr and Light's hope chapel (Vurtne's videos) - Constant guerilla warfare in Stranglethorn (Nesingwary's expedition) - 10 hours long 40vs40 Alterac, with epic fights on the alliance bridge - Blackrock mountain, where PvE Raids and PvP people attacked each other every day to go to MC - 40-man PvE guilds attacking each other in front of world bosses (Azuregos, Kazzak) - Skirmishes in Gadgetzan (Tanaris), in Booty bay, and in front of capitals where people duel - Occasional skirmishes in front of WSG entrances - 80-man large scale raids on capitals, and stealth 40-man raids to Thunderbluff/Darnassus bosses - Occasional stealth commandos in enemy capital streets (with annoying rogues killing the AH Npcs) - Improvised open PvP in any attacked city thanks to the Global defense channel TOR 2012: - 8-man Huttball Forgot to mention the boring *** questlines, boring plot, and the frequent server crashes. The 40 man raids were not fun at all, and neither were the 10 hour AVs. The paladin was also broken as ****. Autoatking and watching your char does not make good gameplay. None of the instances were awesome like the FPs in TOR either in scope or epic feeling. Only good thing you mentioned were the random world pvp in TM. Edited January 15, 2012 by Smashbrother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ombraa Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 OP you forgot barrens chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 So let's compare with WoW 2005 instead. WoW 2005: - Massive 40+ sometimes 80+ people mounted raids in the Crossroads, in Ashenvale - Night and day PvP in Tarren Mill, in the Plaguelands, in Tyr and Light's hope chapel (Vurtne's videos) - Constant guerilla warfare in Stranglethorn (Nesingwary's expedition) - 10 hours long 40vs40 Alterac, with epic fights on the alliance bridge - Blackrock mountain, where PvE Raids and PvP people attacked each other every day to go to MC - 40-man PvE guilds attacking each other in front of world bosses (Azuregos, Kazzak) - Skirmishes in Gadgetzan (Tanaris), in Booty bay, and in front of capitals where people duel - Occasional skirmishes in front of WSG entrances - 80-man large scale raids on capitals, and stealth 40-man raids to Thunderbluff/Darnassus bosses - Occasional stealth commandos in enemy capital streets (with annoying rogues killing the AH Npcs) - Improvised open PvP in any attacked city thanks to the Global defense channel TOR 2012: - 8-man Huttball Don't forget the worst patches in the history of mmo's, Arena that destroyed the global of the whole game, the worst crafting ever in mmo history, the worst social aspect ever in mmo history. TBC was great no lie, raiding, pvp, open-world. Look how long it took to get to TBC? SWTOR is a new baby, with 3 warzones, and coming soon more level 50 brackets and other pvp stuff. So all you have above is things you think happened at launch, fact is Warcraft was darn right unplayable with all the bugs for months, the pvp was not as good till later months. I remember it all, I was there, and SWTOR has done better by a long shot. Any other nonsense OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeffSide Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 OP compare WoW 2005: - Massive 40+ sometimes 80+ people mounted raids in the Crossroads, in Ashenvale - Night and day PvP in Tarren Mill, in the Plaguelands, in Tyr and Light's hope chapel (Vurtne's videos) - Constant guerilla warfare in Stranglethorn (Nesingwary's expedition) - 10 hours long 40vs40 Alterac, with epic fights on the alliance bridge - Blackrock mountain, where PvE Raids and PvP people attacked each other every day to go to MC - 40-man PvE guilds attacking each other in front of world bosses (Azuregos, Kazzak) - Skirmishes in Gadgetzan (Tanaris), in Booty bay, and in front of capitals where people duel - Occasional skirmishes in front of WSG entrances - 80-man large scale raids on capitals, and stealth 40-man raids to Thunderbluff/Darnassus bosses - Occasional stealth commandos in enemy capital streets (with annoying rogues killing the AH Npcs) - Improvised open PvP in any attacked city thanks to the Global defense channel To WoW now. Only thing left on the list will have to be Occasional stealth commandos in enemy capital streets (with annoying rogues killing the AH Npcs) How can you compare SWTOR to a game that can't even be compared to itself? Back when WoW came everything was new. It was the first MMO in history of mankind to bring so much innovation to the genre. The game offered people to do whatever they wanted, World PvP, exploring, PvE world bosses, you name it. It actually felt like another reality and not just a game. After the first expansions with more and more features being added on people grew accustomed to this luxury of queuing for BG's wherever you were, Looking for dungeon, list goes on. It's kind of tricky when you think about it. If Blizzard had kept the game the way it was people would eventually have lost intrest and moved on to other games, but in the end it was these features that destroyed the 'old school' feel people are longing for today. I'm sorry folks but that time is long forgotten, World PvP is an illusion. Just like people won't just abandon their houses and start to live in caves again world pvp will never be the same. The thing that attracts a crowd is originality and a new way of thinking. SWTOR has that in certain aspects like the storyline and voice acting. Other than that I feel asif they have followed in WoW's footsteps. I don't know maybe that was the idea, to 'catch' all the unsubscribed WoW players. I feel developers should blow your mind and make you never want to log out. Having us farm a thousand champion bags just won't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabarok Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I laugh at all the posts that are "If a MMO isn't better than WoW, it's a failure" as if there was only room for 1 MMO in the market. No MMO has surpassed WoW, and odds are it will be something Blizzard does that causes another MMO to pass it, rather than something a competitor does. This isn't a single product market. There were thriving MMOs before WoW, and there have been thriving ones since then. There are MMOs that lots of players love that aren't WoW, but those MMOs don't suddenly become failures because they aren't greater than WoW. Sure, WoW might have had a lot going for it when it launched, but that's why it quickly became the biggest MMO ever. Blizzard was known for putting out quality products. If you love WoW, go back to it. When it comes to MMOs, I always have this piece of advice: If you aren't ready to deal with something that is buggy and lacks content, wait a year for the bulk of the bugs to be ironed out or wait 2 years for the new content. It takes a LOT to kill an MMO. SWG managed to survive all this time in spite of it being considered as one of the worst MMOs ever by a lot of ex-paying customers. The only thing that took SWG down was SWTOR showing up. STO had a faster leveling curve, less content, and little reason to make alts when it launched. 2 Years later and it's still around. Everyone I know quit STO after the first month, but the game survived and they kept fixing bugs and adding new things. It's still not a very good MMO, but it's still here. If you think SWTOR needed another 2 years of development to reach the point of what you think is acceptable for an MMO, that's fine. Just pretend the launch didn't happen and come back in 2 years at what you think the launch date should have been, and play it then. Some of the features SWTOR launched with took years before they were patched into other MMOs. It also launched with a few things I personally have never seen in an MMO, and I've been playing them for 15 years. For me, the only metric that matters is fun. If you aren't having fun, constructive feedback on things you would like to see are good. Unsubscribing and going away until they're added is also good. SWTOR will still be around when you're ready to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) OP compare To WoW now. Only thing left on the list will have to be How can you compare SWTOR to a game that can't even be compared to itself? Back when WoW came everything was new. It was the first MMO in history of mankind to bring so much innovation to the genre. The game offered people to do whatever they wanted, World PvP, exploring, PvE world bosses, you name it. It actually felt like another reality and not just a game. After the first expansions with more and more features being added on people grew accustomed to this luxury of queuing for BG's wherever you were, Looking for dungeon, list goes on. It's kind of tricky when you think about it. If Blizzard had kept the game the way it was people would eventually have lost intrest and moved on to other games, but in the end it was these features that destroyed the 'old school' feel people are longing for today. I'm sorry folks but that time is long forgotten, World PvP is an illusion. Just like people won't just abandon their houses and start to live in caves again world pvp will never be the same. The thing that attracts a crowd is originality and a new way of thinking. SWTOR has that in certain aspects like the storyline and voice acting. Other than that I feel asif they have followed in WoW's footsteps. I don't know maybe that was the idea, to 'catch' all the unsubscribed WoW players. I feel developers should blow your mind and make you never want to log out. Having us farm a thousand champion bags just won't do that. Nice post atm +1, and I agree grinding champ bags sucks, but look PvP was not the best thing in the World of Warcraft till later months. Some would argue Vanilla was the best, others would say TBC, point is it took months and even a few years before there was something. SWTOR has a nice start, and I am certain alot of cool things are coming, hell this game isn't just about PvP and this baby is still learning to walk and crawl. Let this baby learn and evolve. Edited January 15, 2012 by Caeliux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poulpatine Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 So it sucks but it's patchable, so it's fine? Flawed logic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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