Had one I was in the other day where we were tied and the guy that had the ball was going in for a score from the top tier then dropping to the second tier and running through the fire for the score. Suddenly as both myself and my teammate who is in Skype came up to him he became untargetable "Could not see Target" by either of us who both had different angles on him, until he was suddenly on the other side of the fire pit that neither I or my friend were able to get across now because of the fire. They ended up winning the game because of that cap. It was the most convenient "warp" I have seen but it was at a very specific time and it effected both my friend and I.

Came from WoW and played it competitively, the massive difference is the amount of counters you have to the CC and the fact that not EVERY SINGLE CLASS has an "instant cast you cant move your character button." That being said because the only thing in this game is 8 on 8 right now you might find if your the only healer your getting massively CCed. That and you had the ability to watch multiple players bars at once with a UI that is actually worth something in WoW. This UI is beyond horrendous so if you expect to keep an eye out for everything with it, lol good luck.

Its actually kind of an ironic troll. Like even though he could be coming on here to legitimately compliment the game, I still laugh because it is honestly hard for me to even imagine that someone is complimenting the game on the things that he is. If you enjoy it more power to you, but to me....lol.

I pretty much strictly PvP for MMOs. There is 0 incentive for me to play this game now that I got most of my champion pieces. So if there is 0 incentive and I do not enjoy it for the way I play the game which is PvP, then why would I keep subscribing? On top of that how am I a "diva" or whatever all the fan boys call the people who actually are honest about their experience with the game? Its really quite logical, I PvP, it frustrates the hell out of me to play game after game, sometimes get DCed out of the WZ, sometimes win and not get credit. All of that to try to get bags with gear in them, but even though I got relatively geared for PvP. Honestly it becomes pointless, there is no incentive anymore. The game got stale quick for me, so.... I cancelled. Its not a hard concept, welcome to capitalism. I want a MMO with great PvP, hopefully one in the future will provide that. But as of right now if I wanted competitive MMO PvP it is better for me to go to WoW then play this game. Not that I did, but that MMO PvP system is better at the moment.

I thought FOR SURE the OP was going to be an Operative, which would make the thread ironic. Vanguard was my second guess.

Wow amazing stats, its like its been out for a whole month or two to have the "highest retention of a MMO ever." Highest sales of an MMO ever? Really? Sorry BS manufactured statistic unless your taking into account an extremely small insignificant amount of time to make it look like your game is doing something outside of "not so clever" marketing. I read the same stuff you did the difference is I was able to sift through the BS. I really wanted this game to be awesome, problem is I played it long enough to realize its not even close. Maybe another game will be the MMO I am looking for but I agree that past a month or two this stock will be dropping VERY fast. That is when you will see the stats you don't want to be bragging about. Its a honeymoon game, once the honeymoon is over, you don't want anything to do with it anymore.

lol are you playing the same game I am? Because I see the solid white bar and I am still stunned/rooted/lifted.

I love the constant Arena debate that goes on. Its always "the developers said they made a mistake putting in arena" which is both taken out of context and is from one guys mouth not the entire team. What he meant was that for his specific role he actually has to work in order to balance the game better, then just "Oh I am fighting a program that always does this, this, and this." Heaven forbid you have to polish the game that much. Besides if it came to polishing the game this one would definitely lose, I think it should be blatantly obvious if you were to choose between WoW and SWTOR who is more balanced and who's system is more ready for a competitive arena PvP environment. Honestly the ability lag/response time in this game alone takes most of the "skill/quick reaction" portion of the competition out of it. If they implemented an arena system by tomorrow I will tell you now most likely the top tier would be tank/healer and maybe some gimped out operative/operative combos. Other thing is targeting, I guess if you did 2 v 2 arena it would be a bit better and maybe 3 v 3, but the targeting in this game right now is horrendous. Whether you key bound it or click the current system in place is atrocious. This would also need to be ironed out. I would love arena in this game to be honest, but the more I play it, the more I realize how many blatant holes that exist now and that if I wanted to arena I should just cancel and go back to WoW where the game is actually developed into something. This game has a LONG way to go before arena should be implemented....

lol really? Please elaborate...

I cant believe people post this kind of stuff, you do understand what capitalism is right? These are people who bought the game and play a monthly fee to play it, there feedback, in almost any form, should not only be welcome but also be considered and followed to improve the product. Sure the feedback does not HAVE to be regarded by any means, in fact if they want to run a business like you suggest and give the customer's no sense of value that is perfect, this product will last another couple months and the huge amount of money they spent developing it will go right down the drain. Any single person on these forums is COMPLETELY entitled to give their opinion, feedback, and input on what they experience when they play the game. If the business itself does not have thick enough skin to listen to the message behind the flames, then again they will fail. Its not rocket science how this stuff works...

Yeah I am a healer too, but I sure as hell am not mending your wounds before mine, blow some defensive cool downs you selfish bastard...... And I get MVP all the time as a healer.

Im certainly not going to flame you for posting what you believe to be a relevant study, but you seem to be ignoring the context of what posters are saying because of the way they are saying it. It is ironic really because by posting the numerical data you believe it is critical unbiased data, but when you are critiqued on it you become defensive and biased toward its relevance. Look man it is nice that you are trying to put some numbers and data behind the study you are trying to achieve here, but straight up it is completely insignificant and irrelevant the way you ran the experiment. Your running chiropractic level science here where you are just grabbing numbers and what you believe to be relevant values and comparing them. Most of the posters in here are absolutely right, showing total numbers from a tiny sample or unspecified classes achieves nothing. And no I am not going to run my own numbers, but that still does not change the fact that the data and analysis that you did means nothing. Just because you wrote numbers down doesn't mean they are accurate or mean anything. You have to identify the relevance and create an experiment that impartially tries to identify the complaints among the community. Im sorry man but the data you NEED to gather, you wont be able to because of the nature of this game, its lack of logging the data and barring any third party software. Your only left with irrelevant data that honestly means nothing outside of stroking the egos of players within the warzone.

I think many of you completely misinterpret what the macro would be used for, lets face it the ui in this game right now is horrendous and allowing macro ability would help immensely. I literally ran out of quick slots to use for my character when I have my companion out and still have skills or abilities that are not usable while my companions bar is "maximized." I also guarantee everyone who is saying people who use macros are "bad and lazy" are in fact, bad and lazy. If you want to play at a certain level you have to have very fast target switches and reactions to different abilities to counter enemies and with the UI/targeting/focus in this game its horrible. Although I cant complain that much about it anyway because if I press the "interrupt" button there is normally so much off the wall random lag that quick reaction does not mean anything anyway. So I guess fix the whole, broken lag/cast bar thing and then when that part of the game is working right you can have some sort of macro in the game. /interrupt focus is a great tool to have. For all those who think there should not be macros in the game.... you know these same tools are available to you, ironically your too bad or lazy to use them so then you have to lash out at the community who does in an attempt to not be bad and lazy at THIS game too.....

Actually any game from here forward completely has the ability to use WoW's progress in MMORPGs as a template to make their own game. This comparison is wrong because all the progress that WoW made over the years can easily be emulated. You know what, your comparing the game available to you NOW to WoW NOW. That is the pure and simple case. I love how everyone argues that this game will "eventually" be better then WoW, simple truth is if it is not that game now, it will fail... Welcome to Capitalism.

Time out... your argument that healers are not weak is by showing a guy who is battlemaster at 50 who rarely gets focused in that video rolling over a pug and some of which are blatantly afk? Seriously?

I understand the complaint here as I am also a healer. I do believe I have figured it out though. This games balance is not around 1 v 1 at all, if you want to win 1 v 1 situations you need to either tank or DPS. That being said Tanks need to be viewed as much as a support role as healers. If you are a healer and you have a tank with you, NOW you will feel like healers normally "feel." If you DO NOT have a tank near you actually protecting you then you are VERY squishy. It is a huge difference and it just has to be viewed now that you not only need "peels" but you also need "guard." I think it is just the fact that they tried to evolve MMO PvP by giving tank classes a more active role. So now we have to adapt our strategies around using those classes correctly.

Arenas ARE skill, I can not believe I see so many people spout this. Arena's are directly correlated to defeating your enemy in PvP and that is it. The people who do it better in the higher brackets ARE BETTER PLAYERS then anyone else at death match. In fact I would argue that those players are THE BEST players of the game period. Its funny that I saw someone else spout something like,"You think your skilled because you can beat me with arena gear just to help your sensitive ego." Its extremely hippocritical, because the reason they beat you is because they are better then you at PvP, the reason they got that gear is because they are better then you at PvP, they practiced more, they know more, and they know the strategy to beat your class. In fact I would argue that 9 times out of 10 they know your move or reaction before you do. It is YOUR ego that cant handle that, the fact that you just got beat means they ARE more skilled then you, not the other way around and "their gear is carrying them." If you dont want arena in the game then argue other points, but as soon as you spout that there is no skill, you blatantly have no clue and never bothered putting the time in to improve yourself. I personally loved arena but I went from what I thought was a good PvPer who would usually win in BGs but had a rating of maybe 1700-1800 in arena. To a great player who would still do very well in BGs but got up in arena to about 2400 and the practice and time I needed to put in to LEARN the game, quicken my reflexes, position myself, and react to certain things are all directly correlated to your skill in a MMO. Were there imbalanced compositions? Sure some had huge advantages over the others, but unless you were playing in the 2200-2400+ bracket. You were not yet at a level that could complain about comps unless you legitimately ran something with no logic behind the composition whatsoever. Because for the most part the brackets below were all about the players, not the composition.

I played a shadow priest and a frost mage in WoW and I did not have much of an issue with melee. Obviously with a frost mage you have a ton of escapes, but with a shadow priest it was a bit more of an art. Mostly had to do with positioning though. Were there as many knock backs in WoW, no definitely not ALSO there was not near as many obstacles in which a knock back would render you useless for the next 30+ seconds, so that should definitely be stated. Stuns in WoW? Yes there were more stuns in WoW, the difference though is what can happen to you while in that stun and how many classes had them. A rogue had all sorts of stuns but had to be on top of you to use them, so you could feasibly kite them around, or put up defenses before hand so that the damage during the stun was mitigated relatively well. Frost mages had a ranged stun that would increase their damage and had a 30 second cooldown, but again during that stun you had defensive cooldowns you could use or pop a trinket to try and avoid/mitigate the damage. The inherit problem with this game is almost if not ALL classes have a stun... ranged stun, and the amount of damage they can output during that stun is VERY high, while you have no way of mitigating the damage during it unless you happen to be fighting them when you expect it coming. The targeting ui on this game is still VERY green so your field awareness can only be so good and you can only tell what is coming at you a limited amount of ways. That and to me this game is still kind of new so figuring it out takes time. As frustrated as people were with WoW CC it would seem in this thread, they dont mention the fact that there were often times counters to the CC in some way, something this game lacks so far, but hopefully may be developing soon.

Seems to me the crowd likes massive world PvP on an epic level, the amount of times I saw DAoC mentioned is kind of scary, I never played it but seems from all the feedback I hear about it that the game was amazing. If only there was a way for developers to see what all the PvPers are asking for.....

...Wow dude, creating a villian in your own head here? Certainly seems so to me....

BS straight up if you think the .05% was "not hard to get" and that the people or teams who beat you were not more skilled then you are clearly in denial. Either you got carried or just cant admit players on the other end were better then you when you lost, which is something very common among PvPers. I know there was broken mechanics but it was not the difference between being a 2200 rated BG player or a Hero of the Alliance. Your skill as well as the rest of your teams skill and ability to work together was the difference. I will give you that much of WoW did require knowledge but it was not "knowledge of broken mechanics."

Making this thread to find out what the player base thinks is the best MMO PvP they have played and why. I know I personally have played MMORPGs for a long time and the appeal for me specifically has always been the PvP aspect of it. Include this game if you like aspects of it but I am looking at a perspective of ALL MMORPGs. Ill try to be as specific and objective as I can in my descriptions. Ill start with the World PvP and who wins in my opinion. Hands down in my book was Ultima Online, we are going OLD school here. You could mark runes to the popular areas where you were sure to find a fight that was safe from any guards and when a guildie called for help, you recall there and help him out. One guy gets jumped by 2 from an enemy guild so you call your guildies and 2 of them show up and you kill them so they call their guildies and 4 more show up and before you know it there was an all out war. Why was this possible? Because traveling from one point to another did not take 20 minutes and you could feasibly help your teammates out within 30 seconds or a significant amount of time to put yourself in the fight. Other part of UO World PvP that was awesome, the fight for scrolls. Scrolls would increase your stats to higher levels ala data crons here. But in order to get scrolls you had to down bosses that had them on their corpse as loot, these bosses were located in neutral zones with no guards or safety available and would only spawn at specific times. This meant you would sometimes have 4 groups or more all competing for this loot at the same time, massive wars and people pushing in to get to the boss and then once they got there they had to hold off the other groups long enough to kill the boss AND loot it, because loot was open to anyone, and then get away because if you died with the loot on you, it dropped too. Massively fun world PvP and I have not played a game since that has done it better yet. How did they do it? Easy travel to zones where PvP will be happening, something for the sides to battle over that they could hold in their hand and walk off with, or use right there on the spot if they needed to that EVERYONE had incentive to possess and would fight over. After all if you didn't need it you could sell it. Competitive group PvP 2v2 or greater I would go with WoW not only did you have the option of arena if your group was low but your larger battlegrounds were/are more fluid. I think this game is currently very close to it but there are still obvious tweaks to it. However for me specifically I like having a rating system in place, that being said I do not believe that the guys that are the better players and can get the ratings to get the better gear should have very significant gains in the gear they can get. Make it minor, after all the guys who can get higher level gear in PvP are already solid players, there should be a gain to their efforts be in visually by showing off their e-peen or minor adjustments to stats or maybe even the ability to make or sell something of value that will give them a benefit or more credits. 1 on 1 PvP, I have to go with UO again but I have to add a very specific caveat to it. When I played UO there was a specific class that was sculpted out to play as a PvP class. So when I cast one thing an intelligent opponent would cast a counter if he was quick enough, and the fight became either outplaying your opponent entirely and beating them quick or being able to dwindle them down until you could finally score a kill. The top players were ALWAYS the top players and it was very tough to take them down because the 1 on 1 PvP was purely about timing and not class ability. I understand how this kind of thing is not possible with current MMOs because there are so many classes. Only way I could see this working is if there was always a counter to something any class had to do. Besides I think a game should be built around group PvP experience and not 1 on 1. So there you have it my take on the best MMO PvP. I know I have seen plenty of people suggest games I have not even played. Have you guys had the same experience as me or were they completely different and the things I said were so far off base of what you enjoy I am a noob for even suggesting it?

Making this thread to find out what the player base thinks is the best MMO PvP they have played and why. I know I personally have played MMORPGs for a long time and the appeal for me specifically has always been the PvP aspect of it. Include this game if you like aspects of it but I am looking at a perspective of ALL MMORPGs. Ill try to be as specific and objective as I can in my descriptions. Ill start with the World PvP and who wins in my opinion. Hands down in my book was Ultima Online, we are going OLD school here. You could mark runes to the popular areas where you were sure to find a fight that was safe from any guards and when a guildie called for help, you recall there and help him out. One guy gets jumped by 2 from an enemy guild so you call your guildies and 2 of them show up and you kill them so they call their guildies and 4 more show up and before you know it there was an all out war. Why was this possible? Because traveling from one point to another did not take 20 minutes and you could feasibly help your teammates out within 30 seconds or a significant amount of time to put yourself in the fight. Other part of UO World PvP that was awesome, the fight for scrolls. Scrolls would increase your stats to higher levels ala data crons here. But in order to get scrolls you had to down bosses that had them on their corpse as loot, these bosses were located in neutral zones with no guards or safety available and would only spawn at specific times. This meant you would sometimes have 4 groups or more all competing for this loot at the same time, massive wars and people pushing in to get to the boss and then once they got there they had to hold off the other groups long enough to kill the boss AND loot it, because loot was open to anyone, and then get away because if you died with the loot on you, it dropped too. Massively fun world PvP and I have not played a game since that has done it better yet. How did they do it? Easy travel to zones where PvP will be happening, something for the sides to battle over that they could hold in their hand and walk off with, or use right there on the spot if they needed to that EVERYONE had incentive to possess and would fight over. After all if you didn't need it you could sell it. Competitive group PvP 2v2 or greater I would go with WoW not only did you have the option of arena if your group was low but your larger battlegrounds were/are more fluid. I think this game is currently very close to it but there are still obvious tweaks to it. However for me specifically I like having a rating system in place, that being said I do not believe that the guys that are the better players and can get the ratings to get the better gear should have very significant gains in the gear they can get. Make it minor, after all the guys who can get higher level gear in PvP are already solid players, there should be a gain to their efforts be in visually by showing off their e-peen or minor adjustments to stats or maybe even the ability to make or sell something of value that will give them a benefit or more credits. 1 on 1 PvP, I have to go with UO again but I have to add a very specific caveat to it. When I played UO there was a specific class that was sculpted out to play as a PvP class. So when I cast one thing an intelligent opponent would cast a counter if he was quick enough, and the fight became either outplaying your opponent entirely and beating them quick or being able to dwindle them down until you could finally score a kill. The top players were ALWAYS the top players and it was very tough to take them down because the 1 on 1 PvP was purely about timing and not class ability. I understand how this kind of thing is not possible with current MMOs because there are so many classes. Only way I could see this working is if there was always a counter to something any class had to do. Besides I think a game should be built around group PvP experience and not 1 on 1. So there you have it my take on the best MMO PvP. I know I have seen plenty of people suggest games I have not even played. Have you guys had the same experience as me or were they completely different and the things I said were so far off base of what you enjoy I am a noob for even suggesting it?

I think the last 2 posters missed what I was saying entirely. OP was talking about Cataclysm and rated battlegrounds NOT vanilla WoW. Current Rated BG titles have the title "High Warlord" as the top .05%. Yes that is the SAME title that was in vanilla WoW for the massive BG grinders who played all the time. However today it holds an entirely different meaning behind it, it means the player who achieved it is actually one of the best, not just put the most time into it.

High Warlord is the "Gladiator" of Rated Battlegrounds, or the top .05% I believe. YES it does take a lot of skill from both you and your team to make it there, you all have to be top notch players and work together very well to get it. Your probably thinking of Vanilla WoW in which it was just an honor grind. If you guys think that WoW PvP is null and void of objectives or that to get to High Warlord is nothing but a grind you are honestly clueless, you seriously are offering nothing to the argument because you blatantly have either not played WoW, have not played competitively, or are just trashing on it because that is the hip thing to do. Here is a novel idea if you guys want to give constructive feedback about what PvP you like best dont ***** about everything you hate or how PvP in game X is horrible because game Y is better, why not say what specific aspects of the PvP that you enjoyed or why you felt the other system was broken.