3 big problems with SWTOR

[Enthused]

OP you are fail. You think the main focus of a game should always be end-game. WRONG! Every single MMO that has come out has gone that route, and guess what? They have all failed. People are tired of the same old crap at end game, and it is about time someone comes out with something new, rather than just dailies, heroics and raids.

 

What?? The most successful MMO of all time focused on end-game..

[Gleneagle]

...The main focus of an MMO should ALWAYS be end game. ...

 

That is your problem right there. If your whole game only happens at the end they would start you at the end and make that the start. You are working from a completely false premise.

 

This, and the oxymoronic 'efficient play', are two of the wildest conceptual errors in game design discussions.

 

It is laughable. Small wonder we have so few young scientists and engineers worthy of the title.

[Darcedge]

"3) Endgame:

 

This is probably the biggest one. The main focus of an MMO should ALWAYS be end game. Right now, there is very little end game. The same flashpoints, the same warzones.. there's just nothing to do.

 

I know it's pretty early to derail SWTORs endgame, but there is absolutely nothing to do. BW should of been prepared, they should of known that MANY people would hit 50 within the free month. This could be the main reason that SWTOR will fail. It doesn't matter if they add end game later, what matters is how much they have when the game launches (when most people will try it out).. and that unfortunately is none."

 

 

 

 

O.K. I am just sick and tired of seeing this over and over again that there is nothing to do at endgame. For those who say this let me ask you, have you done the raids yet to completion? Have you done every hard mode version of every single flashpoint? Have you pvp up to valor 60 and started getting battlemaster gear (That is if pvp is your thing)?

 

On my server there are a few guilds trying to beat the hard modes but for now there are only 3 that people try on a regular basis. Black Talon, Boarding Party (even though last boss is bugged and to me it's not worth it), and False Emperor. The other hard modes are super hard, and many pugs have been wiped from the first group of trash mobs in some instances. Can someone actually say including the OP that they beat the last boss in Eternity Vault. Or that they beat every hard mode version of every flashpoint. The story may be the same but the content of the hard modes is far and away more challenging. If you have cleared all of this then please tell me what server you play on that everyone is so advanced that they already are bored from endgame.

 

I'm sorry, just because you are not in the right guild or are still waiting for half your guild to level to 50 don't come here and say there is no endgame unless you beat everything already, and I highly doubt that.

[Kraivon]

There's a 0.5 second delay in the game preferences for throwing skills up in the queue. Not sure if this is what you are experiencing or not. This setting is changeable.

[Papazooki]

Your other thread just got closed.. you really think this will stay up longer then 5 minutes this time? :')

 

1) it just did

 

2) Old thread got closed because I was comparing it to WoW too much, which just caused flaming.

[Papazooki]

Why not spawn into the game at level 50, skipping the (usually boring, excluding TOR) leveling part, pick our skill trees, and hop on into a LFG que (automatic of course, too lazy otherwise), and then raid all night, every night until our eyeballs bleed.

 

Because getting your character to end game is a very valuable part of the game too, but it should NEVER be the focus. Ever.

 

Oh and have Devs develop a constant stream of eye candy armor sets with 'Epic' slapped on the title that will be replaced every month or so, to keep us busy working like pack mules (because God knows people who pay to play are really looking to work on menial tasks for the sake of pixel rewards.).

 

So what you're saying is you're not a fan of the MMO genre?

 

So you level FOR the end, not for the adventure. Why? For the glorious, almighty endgame, and what a prize it is - finally being allowed to enter into the special club of idiots that swing their bats for virtual goodies and yell at you for doing the smallest thing wrong.

 

This is how MMOs work, if you want to level for the adventure, that's fine. But that would last you at most, a month. Then what would you do? How would you expect BW to make any money from this MMO if people weren't constantly paying every month.. the only way to do that is to add more content (end game content!).

 

 

 

I don't hate endgame, but it's no object of perfection, and definitely not the end all be all of MMO's - not good ones anyway.

 

Show me one successful MMO that doesn't focus on end game.

[Papazooki]

Okay, what you are saying is:

 

1. Make the game easier for you to play, and understand.

 

Nope.

 

2. Less Phasing.

 

Yup

 

3. More people, and smaller planets.

 

Yup

 

4. More end game.

 

Yup.

 

I constantly hear about the delay thing everyone is mentioning, and I myself have experienced it (when I first started playing), but then I realized that sometimes it wasn't happening (Hmm, maybe there is a trick to it? lol). I learned my build's rotation, and I found that it came from me button mashing at the wrong time.

 

Basically: learn to play.

 

Essentially, you're saying ability delay is caused by a lack of skill.

 

Ok.

 

Smaller planets? I'm not sure if MMOs are for you, bro.

 

SmallER planets, not small. I hope you understand the difference.

[Papazooki]

OP you are fail. You think the main focus of a game should always be end-game. WRONG! Every single MMO that has come out has gone that route, and guess what? They have all failed. People are tired of the same old crap at end game, and it is about time someone comes out with something new, rather than just dailies, heroics and raids.

 

According to your logic, every MMO has failed then. There are many successful MMOs, so that logic is flawed.

 

Let me ask you this, what would you prefer happens when you hit 50?

[Papazooki]

That is your problem right there. If your whole game only happens at the end they would start you at the end and make that the start. You are working from a completely false premise.

 

Where did I say the whole game should happen at the end?

[mcfabulous]

Essentially, you're saying ability delay is caused by a lack of skill.

 

Ok.

 

I dont even get how people justify the ability delay by saying someone just lacks skill.

 

Been playing MMOs for a coons age and there is nothing unskillful about hitting 5, 7 times to get my move to activate.

 

I've had it with this garbage. I feel like I'm still beta-testing this game, halfway through January, and I'm not paying anymore for something that feels half-finished.

 

Today, my preferences were reset without my doing. The font size in the chat window was bigger (which I quickly reset), but what I didn't realize was the option to see whether my dialogue choices resulted in light or dark side points was also reset. I made a wrong choice and mistakenly earned my first light side points after many, many hours of play. I understand there's no real difference, but it screwed up the way I wanted to play.

 

I've been unable to enter some flashpoints, even after opening up tickets to report the problem, resetting phases, waiting 10-15 minutes, logging out and back in, etc. many of the flashpoints and heroic areas are horribly unpolished, unfinished and unbalanced, I've had my party die altogether when fighting elites (from 70% health to zero with absolutely no cause), I've been stuck, my droid companion lets me know how happy he is to have something to do for me 8-9 times per fight, etc. etc. etc.

 

The "protocol droid" schtick that the in-game customer service responses uses is really, really stupid when almost all of my tickets result in a non-response with a mention that the issues have been forwarded to the relevant department, or whatever. My in-game tickets have given me a direct response exactly once, and even that time, whoever responded totally mis-read what my question was. In addition, it was condescending and did not address what I was asking at all.

 

The talent trees are incredibly boring. Sinking points into the majority of the talents to boost an ability's effects by 2/4/6% is everything that's wrong with MMO's. Leveling up and gaining an extra 4% effect to some basic-class level ability is stupid.

 

I've spent a lot of time playing other competing MMO's and have had high hopes for swtor- I excitedly participated in the beta testing- but I'm not bashing my head against this wall anymore.

 

So sorry - swtor has a long way to go. I've given it many many chances, but it it seems like every single day something glitches that makes me log out and go do something else. There's a lot of good things in there but it just feels totally unfinished, and I can't justify spending any more cash to log in, get frusturated at a game-breaking or immersion-breaking bug, and log out.

 

The other day in Tat I was running from someone and jumped into a heroic portal and my character instantly died. (no combat log ofc to see what the fudge happened, no damage popped up though either )

 

Then later on I'm driving on my speeder through the sand dunes and my character just dies. I hit self rez, and my character dies roughly 1 second after falling to the ground from the rez.

 

Edited January 16, 2012 by mcfabulous

[Papazooki]

I dont even get how people justify the ability delay by saying someone just lacks skill.

 

Been playing MMOs for a coons age and there is nothing unskillful about hitting 5, 7 times to get my move to activate.

 

Exactly.. I don't really understand it either.

[Kinediks]

I haven't experienced level 50 yet, but I do agree that sharding and phasing needs to be changed. What I'd like to see coming are more/different space missions, and another operation or two. I know we're getting a new FP, but that won't hold people over for long.

 

I ability delay really hurts as a healer, they need to take care of this as soon as they can.

[Xugos]

I'd have to agree. end-game is lackluster right now.

[Huhn]

 

1) Responsiveness:

 

This one thing getting fixed would make me so very happy.

 

 

 

 

-Sharding:

I've heard that sharding is something they plan on doing away with in the future. supposedly it was just in place to ease overcrowding during launch. I have no idea if this is true as it was just something said in a random forum post, but I hope it is.

 

-Too much phasing:

 

PI think the sharding is fine personally. the planets and areas are big enough that the phasing doesn't really feel like its impeding on the game to me.

 

Low server caps: I agree that the caps should be raised if technically possible.

 

Overly large planets: I like that the planets are big. they are planets after all. they should feel big. Tattooine "feels" like a massive desert planet. I think that is one thing BW got right. the planets and their respective areas feel massive. I think when/if they do away with sharding it will help with the expanses of nothingness feeling.

 

3) Endgame:

 

 

not even close to endgame yet since i didn't start playing at launch(only a few weeks in) but I am an endgame type of player. I don't really do alts so endgame is a make or break for me. I hope they get on this quickly.

[Gleneagle]

Where did I say the whole game should happen at the end?

 

When you said:

The main focus of an MMO should ALWAYS be end game.

 

Everything you have said talks only about end game. The whole focus of the game should be on end game, sez you.

 

Then later, you hedged that:

Because getting your character to end game is a very valuable part of the game too, but it should NEVER be the focus. Ever.

...which is also a fallacy, by the way. The game, whether at level 1 or level 50, should always be the focus: primary, secondary, and tertiary. There is NO ENDGAME in a game that never ends. Level cap is not a goal post. 50 is not the finish line that you need to race to.

 

You aren't enjoying the game. I am, an many others like me are. That means we are doing something better than you are. I've tried in many posts to point out what that is, and many others have as well, but you seem to be unable to adapt.

 

Does this game have issues? Some, sure. But your biggest problem, IMV, is not the game at all, is not BioWare's responsibility. Seems to me your problem is your habitual playstyle.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Gleneagle

[IMonarch]

Pretty sure instanced areas owned by the player isn't called phasing. Phasing is normally when the actual open world 'physically' changes to the player, usually through a quest. Edited January 16, 2012 by IMonarch

[OutOfSight]

I actually think the planets are not big enough..

[Arkimor]

I actually think the planets are not big enough..

 

Because they're not actually planets; they're a series of hallways connected by two dozen load screens, doors, elevators, and hallways.

[LeonBraun]

Endgame is in MMO's to keep people busy who have little to do.

 

This game has been out for a month.

 

Unless there are people out there who have 16 toons to level cap, there is nothing to whine about.

 

I have 11 toons, not one to level cap yet.

 

There is plenty to do right now.

[PjPablo]

Endgame is in MMO's to keep people busy who have little to do.

 

This game has been out for a month.

 

Unless there are people out there who have 16 toons to level cap, there is nothing to whine about.

 

I have 11 toons, not one to level cap yet.

 

There is plenty to do right now.

 

Quite a lot of MMO players believe in the "Main Character' approach and are not going to want to level alt after alt to keep engaged. If that is the design intent here, BW is not going to be happy when a ton of people quit.

[Papazooki]

When you said:

 

 

Everything you have said talks only about end game. The whole focus of the game should be on end game, sez you.

 

Then later, you hedged that:

...which is also a fallacy, by the way. The game, whether at level 1 or level 50, should always be the focus: primary, secondary, and tertiary. There is NO ENDGAME in a game that never ends. Level cap is not a goal post. 50 is not the finish line that you need to race to.

 

You aren't enjoying the game. I am, an many others like me are. That means we are doing something better than you are. I've tried in many posts to point out what that is, and many others have as well, but you seem to be unable to adapt.

 

Does this game have issues? Some, sure. But your biggest problem, IMV, is not the game at all, is not BioWare's responsibility. Seems to me your problem is your habitual playstyle.

 

Not the whole focus, but the main focus. As in, work on leveling sure, but keep end game that main part of the game.. as that is where 90% of the player base will be very soon.

 

Why do you think the game never ends? According to you, if they focused on leveling only.. the game would end once you hit 50.

[Papazooki]

Quite a lot of MMO players believe in the "Main Character' approach and are not going to want to level alt after alt to keep engaged. If that is the design intent here, BW is not going to be happy when a ton of people quit.

 

This game has the worst replay value in any MMO I've ever played. And that is mainly due to the voice acting / dialog, and very VERY linear questing.

[Grimfyre]

Alright, since my last thread on this topic got closed (probably due to my comparison with WoW.. which just caused mindless flaming from both sides).. I'll make this one more constructive.

 

The following are 3 big problems that need to be addressed ASAP if SWTOR wants to thrive:

 

1) Responsiveness:

 

SWTORs character responsiveness is pretty bad. With things like ability delay and animations having to finish before damage takes effect, it makes SWTOR combat / responsiveness VERY clunky.

 

The problem is not only with combat, but generally everything from mounting up and using quick travel. There seems to be a 0.5 second or so delay on abilities taking effect. This is a SERIOUS issue and needs to be looked into immediately.

2) The MMO factor:

 

Ask people if they feel like SWTOR is an MMO, and the most common answer you will get is "no". This is due to a few things:

 

-Sharding: Why does this even exist? All it does is prevents players from seeing eachother / communicating with eachother. Both being VERY big factors to an overall MMO feel.

 

-Too much phasing: There is FAR too much phasing in this game. Almost every quest leads to a phased area. I understand this is done to speed up questing, but it too has far too many cons.

 

Phasing itself is NOT the problem, in fact it has many benefits. The problem arises when you use it TOO MUCH.

 

Low server caps: This is quite simple, and doesn't need much explaining. The server caps just far too low. There needs to be a much bigger server cap (something like WoWs) which will mean more players. More players = MMO!

 

Overly large planets: Planets are far too big. This spreads players out way too much and makes the place look like it's empty (add to that the other factors, and it probably IS empty).

 

3) Endgame:

 

This is probably the biggest one. The main focus of an MMO should ALWAYS be end game. Right now, there is very little end game. The same flashpoints, the same warzones.. there's just nothing to do.

 

I know it's pretty early to derail SWTORs endgame, but there is absolutely nothing to do. BW should of been prepared, they should of known that MANY people would hit 50 within the free month. This could be the main reason that SWTOR will fail. It doesn't matter if they add end game later, what matters is how much they have when the game launches (when most people will try it out).. and that unfortunately is none.

 

 

Maybe you just need to get a few friends and a guild? This feels like an MMo and i love the story portion of it.. Im in a very active guild and its going great...

 

 

As for nothing to do at 50? Um... hello? The game hasn't even been out a month....there are warzones, flashpoints, hard modes, Operations...if you hit 50 before everyone else hits 50 of course you will be bored...

 

And as for sharding and phasing..that bothered me in Guild Wars but in this game i have no issues. The phases dont last long and sharding makes sense so its not intensive on the server.

 

I still see people everywhere on my server. And as for server caps those were increased a week or 2 ago, so now no queues but still good size server populations.

 

The only thing on your whole post i agree with is Character Responsiveness.

[Jswizzle]

End game is important, but don't dismiss the countless people who don't care that much about the end game.

 

A lot of the casual MMO players have been through the end games before. It's always the same type of stuff. I raided on Everquest 1 for like 2 years.

 

It might be hard to understand, but a lot of us just play to have fun. Not be the best geared, or most knowledgeable. When I play I'm just as likely to run around looking at my lightsaber than do any questing.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Jswizzle

[PjPablo]

End game is important, but don't dismiss the countless people who don't care that much about the end game.

 

A lot of the casual MMO players have been through the end games before. It's always the same type of stuff. I raided on Everquest 1 for like 2 years.

 

It might be hard to understand, but a lot of us just play to have fun. Not be the best geared, or most knowledgeable. When I play I'm just as likely to run around looking at my lightsaber than do any questing.

 

'Looking at your lightsaber'

 

Um

 

Really?