Liljuicester Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Please for the love of all things star wars, take this stupid debuff (30% less healing) away from PVP encounters. You already don't give crap for medals for healing, why make even more frustrating in nerfing our healing when trying to help our team? That is all, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theMornox Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 the constructive solution is to decrease the healing points needed for medals by 30% in correlation to the trauma debuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalrat Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It still makes healers extremely weak in combat. If you're a healer, an Operative doesn't even have to try to kill you. You're a free kill to them, and have no hope of EVER healing through their damage unless they're just totally incompetent. I say this as a valor 58 sage in pretty reasonable gear. Eventually the 2k to 4k-per-GCD outdoes your healing capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestunhi Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 the constructive solution is to decrease the healing points needed for medals by 30% in correlation to the trauma debuff. This. Removing a 30% debuff will change the balance, altering the medals will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liljuicester Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Just do away with the debuff all together. What I'm trying to say is dmg is already way to high from a healer perspective to even heal myself. Given the -30% to healing, makes it jaw dropping difficult. If I get one of my healing spells interrupted, by either a knock back, kick, or pull, or any of the numerous ways to stop spell casting, I'm already way behind. This game needs fixing, no one can disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khabarach Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 This game needs fixing, no one can disagree with that.I can. If the debuff wasn't there, then nobody would die with any sort of decent healers around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenthum Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I can. If the debuff wasn't there, then nobody would die with any sort of decent healers around. As it stands any single player can solo a healer in no time whatsoever, with equal gear. A geared operative will kill you in a knockdown. Working as intended..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liljuicester Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 I can. If the debuff wasn't there, then nobody would die with any sort of decent healers around. You haven't played a healer, that's obvious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivialed Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Healing with the debuff is fine. Right now if you are a good healer it is incredibly hard to kill you. Even with 2 DPS it can take several minutes. If you are failing at healing, then this is a l2p issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalrat Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I can. If the debuff wasn't there, then nobody would die with any sort of decent healers around. Very incorrect. Painfully so. Play a healer. Here's some simple math: 2.5s heal: (interruptable) heals for about 2200 at 50 in full champ gear non-crit. I can bring that down to a 1.5s cast if I first use a GCD on a weak instant heal (meaning it'll take me 3 seconds of uninterrupted casting to heal for 3k). I can crit with this ability for about 3-4k at most. Channeled heal: about 3500 over 4 seconds. Instant HoT: About 600 + 1600 over 12 seconds. With 512 expertise, operatives/scoundrels will often strike me for 4k multiple times with instant attacks in a short period of time. Usually the damage is something like 2k > 4k > 2k > 3k each a GCD apart while I'm stunned. They can also interrupt my heals pretty easily with kicks, stuns, and knockdowns. DPS specced juggernauts/knights can accomplish very similar feats of damage. Out damaging a healer's healing while focusing them is very easy because the damage dealers have so much utility to stop casting. Where's my utility to get away from them? I have a 2s movement speed buff on a 30 second cooldown, which most of melee can counter by leaping to you or using a 2nd stun (After you've broken the first in order to not die to their very first rotation...) Healing in PvP sucks, and is too difficult compared to the other jobs. This discourages players from occupying this role. I really wanted to play a healer, but even after becoming very comfortable with the spec (rr58, been playing MMO's for years, Glad and Warlord in WoW, etc) I did a lot better when I completely re-specced to damage and went in without bothering to master the new keybindings and whatnot. Healing is just that weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherlin Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 ok guys i play a Scoundrel Sawbones healer, and i completely disagree with most of what has been said in this thread... first off, this is NOT wow don't expect the same healing mechanics, can i keep 2 or 3 people alive for 15 minutes against 8 players? no i cannot, which is fair, why should 3 or 4 be able to kill 8? However that does not meen healing is useless, you can keep 3 or 4 people alive long enough to kill off 5 or 6 of the enemies, they wont be all topped off, but its enough to win the node your fighting, or plant the bomb... and 1v1 i feal rediculous, yes some classes may give me trouble but i can out heal anything damege aslong as i play smart and dont sit there and let them beat on me. If noone is around to help me, i turn around and backpedal them while tossing up some of my own damege. Healers are in a great place in this game IMO, We are not so strong to were we do not die, but we are not weak to the point we can't do anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyllama Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I understand the complaint here as I am also a healer. I do believe I have figured it out though. This games balance is not around 1 v 1 at all, if you want to win 1 v 1 situations you need to either tank or DPS. That being said Tanks need to be viewed as much as a support role as healers. If you are a healer and you have a tank with you, NOW you will feel like healers normally "feel." If you DO NOT have a tank near you actually protecting you then you are VERY squishy. It is a huge difference and it just has to be viewed now that you not only need "peels" but you also need "guard." I think it is just the fact that they tried to evolve MMO PvP by giving tank classes a more active role. So now we have to adapt our strategies around using those classes correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempuro Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Just do away with the debuff all together. What I'm trying to say is dmg is already way to high from a healer perspective to even heal myself. Given the -30% to healing, makes it jaw dropping difficult. If I get one of my healing spells interrupted, by either a knock back, kick, or pull, or any of the numerous ways to stop spell casting, I'm already way behind. This game needs fixing, no one can disagree with that. I have a similar feeling. I can understand that they dont want healers to become overpowered. Since balance is all about not letting a certain group being constantly outplaying others. But if healing in general becomes so easily overpowered that a 30% (which is immense!) debuff is neccesary...is healing itself then truly the problem? Or is there something 'wrong' (I hate the word wrong, but im not an english native, so forgive me) with the PVP game design that makes healing such a valuable asset? Seeing as we dont have the debuff during leveling or during PVE (FP's/OPS)! On top of that I often have the feeling being incompetent in healing in PVP: we (as noted by someone else in this thread) already have to deal with literally TONS of knockbacks, stuns, etc, and a 1,5 (!). I can literally be stun-locked to death! (and not just once...). In addition to LOS (sometimes even 'silly' ones like small boxes), cluttered battles (its impossible to distuinguish names when 4 people are stacked up, let alone target them manually [game targets enemy first]), and giving everyone a title, a normal name and legacy name, all of that doesnt make quick response healing easier...Raidframes are often bugged (10 players in an OPS?, and its difficult to look at a name, and look it up in the frames)....ok, i dont want to sound too negative...but the game at its current status lends itself easier for a DPS role, than a healing role (no companions in raidframes for example?). I dont mind a challnge, but please let the challenge itself be in the strategy/fight (what we have to do: carry a ball, cap a point), than in the mechanics and the game tools. Lets turn it around: if you found out people would die too easily in PVP, would you give everyone a 30% damage reduction? I you would feel tanks would shield too much, would you give them a 30% shield reduction? Maybe these sound silly, but for me they are in the same department as a 30% healing debuff.... And I'm a bit double about medals in PVP. On the one hand i feel a balanced team should have all roles in it. If you want to play your role good, you would have to stick to the role you're given (supporting the team = healing / utility (stun, etc)). Doing this would very often result in two medals (and if the situation lends itself for it, maybe 3). On the other i also feel like you should be role flexible (especially in PVP, less in PVE), which requires a healer to dps, or a dps to heal). As far as i discovered there are 4 technical healing medals, 4 tank medals, 2 situaional (defender medals), and 8 dps medals. I know gabe & co might not want to classify it as strictly as i just did (probably because of the role flexibility in PVP), but you have to look at it from a perspective like 'what medals are most likely to be scored by people with a certain role'. Even for tanks this is different, because part of fulfilling that role is doing damage. So very technically (!): in the current medal system, if I-Healer see a teammate on 10% health, or I can score a medal killing blow, which i dont have yet...the game motivates me to do the last...and thats weird...Isnt there a situation possible in which I can fulfill my role (healing the 10% guy) enables me a chance at getting the killing blow medals because that guy now does that 'for me' (since i kept him alive?)? It just feels weird... - off-topic: kill medals will let people focus on killing...are there no 'i scored the ball twice medals?' Good behaviour doesnt buy you gear, neither do compliments from teammates (which are always welcome ). The biggest thing about the 30% debuff, is the question 'why am i being 'handicapped for fulfulling a specific role and trying or being competent at it?'. I know the trauma debuff only applies when you actually damage someone (engage in PVP combat), but its impossible to not do that (defense, for example stun als damages). All and all: maybe 30% healing is a solution for a problem which isnt easily (or cannot be) fixed, if that is so, i would like to just hear that. the game doesnt have to be perfect, but id like to understand why (maybe you just have to read this topic as: why, not as 'dont'). ps: im giving this feedback because i totally LOVE the game, and want it to become the best game ever & sorry for the critwall-o-text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstaxo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 the simple question is. why heal for 2k when you can hurt for 4k? you're turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piethief Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Healing with the debuff is fine. Right now if you are a good healer it is incredibly hard to kill you. Even with 2 DPS it can take several minutes. If you are failing at healing, then this is a l2p issue. Several minutes for 2 DPS to kill one healer? Yeah, good one. A single DPS can output more damage than one healer can heal. In most MMOs that's the other way around. Combined with the spike nature of most of that damage, it's becomes very difficult to be a healer in ToR. That's not to say I don't enjoy it, I do... apart from forcing me to stand still to heal as an inquisitor! How on earth they expect me to do anything useful in Huttball is beyond me. Stand still for 2 seconds, and the ball carrier will be the opposite end of the arena. I'm forced to hope that my team will carry me in those encounters. Anyway, Huttball apart, I would settle for more medic medals, and idiots not trolling that a healer can tank two DPS at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherlin Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Several minutes for 2 DPS to kill one healer? Yeah, good one. A single DPS can output more damage than one healer can heal. In most MMOs that's the other way around. Combined with the spike nature of most of that damage, it's becomes very difficult to be a healer in ToR. That's not to say I don't enjoy it, I do... apart from forcing me to stand still to heal as an inquisitor! How on earth they expect me to do anything useful in Huttball is beyond me. Stand still for 2 seconds, and the ball carrier will be the opposite end of the arena. I'm forced to hope that my team will carry me in those encounters. Anyway, Huttball apart, I would settle for more medic medals, and idiots not trolling that a healer can tank two DPS at once.[/quote a good healer will take a few minutes to kill with 2 dps on you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satans_Puppet Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I spend my life at the end of a sorcerers lightening or an operatives blades as a Sawbones.... I spend my life praying for crits when people are cut down by the likes of operatives but 9 times out of 10 I know that while the Operative is making mince meat of my team mate, I should abandon all hope and get as much distance between me and the Op as soon as possible. In other situations I can out heal some classes until they get bored but Operatives, Sorcerers and now Bounty Hunters I seem to have trouble with but they're all in Full PvP gear now and I only have a champion ear piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It still makes healers extremely weak in combat. If you're a healer, an Operative doesn't even have to try to kill you. You're a free kill to them, and have no hope of EVER healing through their damage unless they're just totally incompetent. I say this as a valor 58 sage in pretty reasonable gear. Eventually the 2k to 4k-per-GCD outdoes your healing capacity. Healers are not weak, Dimach outheals 4-5 players for a good long while in this video: @ 6:30. And this is just an example. Get to 50 and get some gear, and things will change. Altho, that being said! I sincerely hate this lame debuff too, for the simple fact that it is NOT very epic (and BW are selling SW:tOR on the whole concept of you being epic) to enter a PvP match and suddenly see your heals being as weak as they were 20 levels ago. Where is the epicness feeling for healers, huh Bioware? This and the Crappy medal awards for healers made me put my Main healer on the shelf until it gets fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyndelx Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) a good healer will take a few minutes to kill with 2 dps on you... A good healer can tank 2 ****** dps. Edited January 14, 2012 by Cyndelx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstaxo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Healers are not weak, Dimach outheals 4-5 players for a good long while in this video: @ 6:30. And this is just an example. Get to 50 and get some gear, and things will change. i think i missed the part where they actually did dmg to him instead of doing no dmg to the other partymembers.... stupid vid is stupid.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenthum Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 the simple question is. why heal for 2k when you can hurt for 4k? you're turn Especially when that hurt doesn't have a cast time, can't be interupted, is easy to target, and is going to net you 4 times the medals that the healers are getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goulet Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 i've never found healing that gimped, both as rolling into pvp as a healer, and fighting healers while dps. Obviously theres some player ability involved, and its on a class to class basis on you're survivability though. spec is also something get's overlooked, as for a lot of classes speccing deep into healing pigeon holes you into fulfilling only that role, to the point you need someone elses dps for survivability. I've found more success in going for a more hybridized spec 21/20/0 for operative, i have the 2 stack hot, 2 quick self heals (one from class one from spec) and still have damage from lacerate and tactical advantage procs from the stealth tree. I can engage 2 people and win if im on top of things, not thats its par for the course but its possible. I'm helped somewhat by power stacking for both damage/healing (*contrary to popular belief this is what allows operatives to pull huge burst, not the class itself). not trying to say anyone sucks just trying to provide insight, also the medal system is terrible for healing. you either need more specific reward from healing like individual rewards for amount healed per player ie (heal 1 player for x amount = 1 medal, 2 for 2x=2). Or you need to tap into the success the players you're healing have (while actively healing you earn 1/x of the medals they earn, like 1 out of every 3 or something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piethief Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) a good healer will take a few minutes to kill with 2 dps on you... I want to make clear that I'm not complaining about healing being underpowered as others are, I find it really rewarding and enjoyable, but the tanking thing is simply not the case. Assuming equal levels and equipment, the only way for you to tank 2 DPS for so long would be if they were very poor. LoS and your stun can only take you so far. You have to face at least 2 stuns, with only one stun break, and you're relying on them being so stupid that they don't interrupt that big blue bar flowing above your head for your big heals. Sure I suppose it is possible, but the opposition would have to hand you it. Edited January 14, 2012 by piethief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivialed Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Several minutes for 2 DPS to kill one healer? Yeah, good one. A single DPS can output more damage than one healer can heal. In most MMOs that's the other way around. Combined with the spike nature of most of that damage, it's becomes very difficult to be a healer in ToR. That's not to say I don't enjoy it, I do... apart from forcing me to stand still to heal as an inquisitor! How on earth they expect me to do anything useful in Huttball is beyond me. Stand still for 2 seconds, and the ball carrier will be the opposite end of the arena. I'm forced to hope that my team will carry me in those encounters. Anyway, Huttball apart, I would settle for more medic medals, and idiots not trolling that a healer can tank two DPS at once. They can..... Maybe once you hit 50 and get geared you will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstaxo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 They can..... Maybe once you hit 50 and get geared you will see. yeah because at this point 2 people drop so they don't need to target you they just burn down your tank and kill you after it tanks in pvp are nothing but meattanks atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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