If Operatives were not a problem

[Redderic]

If you cannot use a search function on a website I honestly feel terribly sorry for you. As for making my thread valid, I need not to prove myself to you; if you had the slightest bit of intelligence you for yourself could see all the multiple threads posted about the current problem dealing with Operatives. Nice troll attempt 3/10

 

dont be bad.

its simple really, dont be bad. get to level 50 and l2play and they wont seem imba at all anymore.

[StealthLightning]

I All I have to say is look through all the threads in the PVP forums and find just 1 thread complaining about a class that is not OPS and i'll admit I was in the wrong and I should shut my mouth;.

 

Here you go.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=168604

 

Now please make good on your promise.

Edited January 14, 2012 by StealthLightning

[Redderic]

Here you go.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=168604

 

Now please make good on your promise.

 

SNAP!

that will shut him up i hope.

[Oozlong]

This fuzzy guy is just talking out of his ***. Clearly just another butthurt player who got killed by an Operative I would guess. The forums are seriously flooded with kids crying about a class that kills them. L2P.

[Nyghoma]

No one would be posting ONLY about Operatives but other classes. I have sat here for about 20 minutes reading the first 5 pages of threads and the only class I see people having complaints about being OP is the Operative. Obviously if its more then one person saying something about it, something must be partially true. I personally get 1 shotted from Operatives on my Sith Assassin and only last a few seconds on my Bounty Hunter Merc.

 

I tried to not jump on the band wagon about "Oh OPS are way too OP" but after tonight's results in PVP I have finally gave in, I'm sorry but Operatives need something adjusted.

 

 

You're another QQ crybaby who should be eating a fart.

 

Trollmore.

[depth_mil]

 

Listen, Operatives/Scoundrels have high burst dps out of stealth for a reason. They are not any good after their initial burst. Though I do think that separating their knockdown opener from their burst to make them two different skills would be good, they really dont need many other changes.

 

They are the easiest melee to kite and they cannot stay toe-to-toe in battle or they will die. People need to chill the **** out for the time being. If you are a level 20 getting ***** by a level 50 operative in full pvp gear, good, you should be getting killed by them. They are probably a much better player than you and have expertise to back them up.

 

The problem with people is that they have a blame the game first mentality. Everyone thinks they are a great player, when in reality, most people PvPing right now are terrible at this game. They would rather say that something is wrong with the game than something is wrong with how they play. As I said before, the knockdown and burst opener being the same ability is not right, the player should have to choose between control and damage, but other than that I think Operatives/Scoundrels are okay for the time being.

 

Once most people are 50, and geared out in PvP, then we can see what classes need to be changed. But right now people are level 20 getting killed by 50 Operatives then crying on the forums about it. These are the people that expect to be able to kill another player as easily as they do a mob. These are the people that dont know what balance is, who just dont like it when they get killed in warzones.

 

I really don't think you can blame most of the op/scoundrel qq on learn to play issues - if you get opened on by a geared op with consumables up, you're usually dead in the knockdown even if you're pvp geared (happens to me semi regularly, ~15k hp JG). Aside from trinket and pop a ton of cooldowns, there's obviously not a whole lot you can do. Biochem also helps a lot here too of course.

 

Now there's a couple major factors at play there that are probably overshadowing anything related to class balance - most notably temp buff stacking (mostly fixed next patch) and the insane gear differences that currently exist (battlemaster gear and people in greens in the same warfront is always going to be ugly), but I'd be surprised if even after these start to get addressed (by 1.1 and people gearing up/hitting 50 etc) operatives didn't need some sort of adjustment - and you seem to agree with this too given the opener comments.

 

The really obviously broken stuff (consumable stacking) should be fixed first though, so bioware is doing the right thing here.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Qishari
quoted insutls

[Throne_Senpai]

 

Here you go.

[Nilxain]

the problem is the memory imprint of you being on your face helpless vs you getting killed in under 10 seconds by a sorc bzzz bzzzzzzz for the same damage from 30 meters

 

the imprint is different, you died more to another class then to a op/scoun

 

here watch these video:

 

 

 

 

 

 

i think these threads are ridiculous i dont even want to elaborate why and if op/scoun gets nerfed they might as well delete the class unless everyone wants to play the healer spec.

 

the healer spec is good in pve , but lacks in pvp , since they are the only healer with no ability that counters skill interupts, do not have a bubble, and their stealth is a joke, the 3 min cooldown that gets countered by all the ae , knockbacks and dots flying around...

 

there has been so many wrongs in so many threads , skill spams that dont happen and cant happen, since ops/scoun have skill delays over 6 and 9 seconds.

 

they need shiv to land to gain tactical advantage to do another skill they rely on stealth opener, other stealthers do not... etc etc.

 

anyways feast your eyes on the videos and be amazed... and those are against mostly 50 s.

 

Man I couldn't agree more, there is plenty of evidence of other classes doing the same crushing, but the different really is the imprint.

[Vinushka]

No one would be posting ONLY about Operatives but other classes. I have sat here for about 20 minutes reading the first 5 pages of threads and the only class I see people having complaints about being OP is the Operative. Obviously if its more then one person saying something about it, something must be partially true. I personally get 1 shotted from Operatives on my Sith Assassin and only last a few seconds on my Bounty Hunter Merc.

 

I tried to not jump on the band wagon about "Oh OPS are way too OP" but after tonight's results in PVP I have finally gave in, I'm sorry but Operatives need something adjusted.

 

 

Lol. You're a funny guy. Let's see what I can dig up from my saved vids so far...

 

 

Jedi Guardian on PCP (Not Crack as stated in the vid title): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfWx_mcAQBY

 

 

Vengeance Juggernaut:

 

Fast forward to 8:30 when he fights two Sages at once by himself with no assistance. Pretty sure he didn't have the damage buff, and still whamboozled the crap out of both of them one after other, despite his white dmg being mitigated by armor, shields and the works. If this guy was Rage specced like the Jedi Guardian on PCP, they'd of died in like 5 seconds. Vengeance is like a hybrid tank spec/fluid DPS spec. Still impressive.

 

 

Rage Marauder:

 

Not as high as the Jedi Guardian on PCP. They're missing out on 30% dmg to Smash from the Jugg/guardian middle tree, and he might not be Biochem. Still. Them 5800 white dmg executes (mitigated by armor where as Yellow is not) and still hitting like a truck with AOE Smash. Massive potential for higher dmg scaling. Oh, and that Sage got perfected just as fast as he would've by an Operative.

 

 

I've also seen an Operative Hidden Strike for 10K, and Backstab for 6800+ in two GCDs with dmg buff, adrenal, and relic popped. I can't find the vid. Probably had a expertise potion active too. But when you consider Rage can do 10K+ dmg too when wearing Best in Slot gear, and it hits everyone around you unmitigated by anything that isn't Guard or a static elemental resist, I'd say Smash is much more powerful than anything in the Operative's arsenal.

 

 

My point is the Operative class isn't broken. The GAME is broken at its core. If you can't mitigate elemental dmg, which requires these things:

 

1. Sorceror/Sage bubble

2. Sorceror/Sage buff

3. Guard on you

4. Invincible popped on a Juggernaut

5. The Bounty Hunter version of Invincible popped

 

...You are dead when someone this geared who's biochem comes along. End of story. Your only hope is to CC them, hope their CC break is on cooldown, and run for your life before they get on you again. Thank Bioware for that. Pro gaming, son.

 

 

Now back to faceroll leveling my Biochem Juggernaut. My 50 Operative is in like full artifact, with only 3-4 champion pieces missing and he's being shelved. That says it all. Wish I had stuck with my Jugg since it was my first character anyway. Early leveling woes pushed me away, but if I had waited til my boy Quinn came along, I'd of been a god in PVP right now. Also I went Cybertech on my Operative >_>. Would be cool if ***** would stop beating me on the blue crystal rolls I need to make the epic seismic or fire grenades but whatever. Hell with that class. Why require stealth to do high dmg, have crap mitigation, energy woes in the heat of battle, and specialize in killing single targets, when you can run around like a psycho force-wielding beast foaming at the mouth and kill everyone around you at the same time. Lol.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Vinushka

[specialllama]

I agree with you, I personally think if they brought he Operatives down to par with the Shadow/Assassin it would be perfect. The Shadow/Assassin are lethal but not ridiculous like the current Operative.

 

 

Bring us down to par? so you Operatives will be given more utility like force speed and aoe knockbacks? Or you think they should have their opening burst nerfed and be left as a class with absolutely nothing to offer?

 

How about you whine about smugglers? Oh wait..your just a butthurt rebel.

[dirtycarebear]

operatives are really fine... like i met an really op one... he was 3 shotting my SI friend.. then he was simply dying cuz thats all burst he could do, kill 1 guy and die now u guyz want it nerf?

 

so what, want operatives just die doing nothing? they can burst dmg yea, they can pwn u? yea... but they can do it to only 1 guy, if you are 1 on 1 and no1 to help u... any cc onthem will destroy their burst as well... so whats to nerf?!

[Crujido]

Well 2 weeks ago there was giant pages complaining about sorc, but not sage.

Most people just want to complain when thhey die.

[depth_mil]

Vengeance Juggernaut:

 

Fast forward to 8:30 when he fights two Sages at once by himself with no assistance. Pretty sure he didn't have the damage buff, and still whamboozled the crap out of both of them one after other, despite his white dmg being mitigated by armor, shields and the works. If this guy was Rage specced like the Jedi Guardian on PCP, they'd of died in like 5 seconds. Vengeance is like a hybrid tank spec/fluid DPS spec. Still impressive.

 

Vengeance/vigilence actually starts getting seriously high burst/damage once you have a decent amount of gear (moreso than focus I think, which is pretty much stack everything on sweep then afk until it's back up), but it's pretty obviously overcharge + trinket + adrenal - you can see the buffs.....

[HollowVamp]

Lol if you get one shotted you must be running around naked. No one can do 12k dmg in one hit. Also if you are lvl 50 and dont have atleast 14k hp something is wrong with your gear. You now have lost all credibility.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but i have it on a xfire clip.. a biochem ops in battle master gear crit me for 12.4k through my champ gear and a 30% dmg reduction CD up

[Rotm]

OPs are getting nerfed and probably the sweep crit combo as well. Seriously you can't believe that a 4x+ damage boost on an aoe ability is going to stay in when you can just look around at other top tier talents in damage trees and see Bioware made most them dot based to avoid burst stacking. I welcome it if it will remove the crutch so they have to fix the classes real issues.

 

Also operatives aren't even worth discussing. WoW stunlocks in vanilla were OP but at least they took 30 seconds to pull off. Even playing a vanilla/tbc elemental shaman a class with zero hard CC I could win. I look at 50 OPs in this game like enviromental hazards. Hidden Blade is like knockback +stun in a fire pit. Try and avoid it or stun break and run away almost dead.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Rotm

[kaboll]

You've kinda made your own bed here. See, the operatives have a mirror class named the Scoundrel. The Scoundrel can do exactly what the operative can do with a cowboy hat.

 

As you pointed out there are tons and tons of nerf OP threads. There are far fewer nerf scoundrel threads. Which shouldn't make sense right? Because their identical. So I propose to you a second explanation for this.

 

Republic players whine like 6 year old girls that don't get to go over to sallys birthday party because they weren't invited. =)

 

Get 50. Get all your pvp gear. Then when you get hit for 15k (Which you won't) use your tiny rep brain and realize consumable stacking is the issue. =)

 

you dont see near as many complaints about scoundrel because the empire outnumbers the rebublic on most servers like 4-1 on some its as bad as 8-1 or more.so there is gonna be a lot more ops complaints cuz of this disparity.not only that but the emp side plays huttball a lot more then reb side so you also have other emp players complaining about ops too.

[Feskitt]

The only thing I don't like about Operatives is the fact I can get stunned from the start of the fight down to 40% hp, mind you I have 7% dmg reduce on everything ontop of 20% reduce dmg when I'm stunned(only reason I survive). Then when I actually do start fighting them and have dots on them messing them up, they just vanish and get away. Even with putting a sealth scan down quick because I have it binded to a convient key.

 

The Shadow/Assassin Class this fits into, but giving sucha thing to Ops was just to much.

 

Pretty much the same thing here.

 

Whenever all the FOTM heroes who want easy kills finally jump to this class/tactic, it will get nerfed.

 

 

[Fergor]

Man I couldn't agree more, there is plenty of evidence of other classes doing the same crushing, but the different really is the imprint.

 

Not just that, a lot of times people aren't actually dying to the OPs. The Ops opens up on someone, the person also gets hit by damage from other sources but they only see the OPs standing over them so they assume all the damage came from them.

[karcyon]

Its because operatives own low level players harder than anyone else, low level players who get *****tomped are the ones who are most likely to post a complaint thread.

This!

[theMornox]

cant understand why people dont get that those famous high crits come from STACKING CONSUMABLEs, not from the class. take a champion geared operative and then show me your imba critz without any consumables.. they wont be there.

 

ops are fine

stacking consumables need rework.

[Minatanae]

I don't agree.

 

Usually I'm on the nerfbat-side of the system but not this time, I honestly believe that the ones that whine just need to learn how to play against operatives.

 

First of all, popping out of stealth and CC'ing while bursting is their strength. Of course they should win that fight, after all, that's what they're made for.

 

On the other hand, as a sorcerer, finding an Operative at range is pretty much like christmas. DoT him/her up and burn until nothing remains. Same goes as Powertech. I absorb way too much damage for an operative to be a threat. After all, their abilities revolve around them CC'ing and bursting.

 

Break the CC with smart use of resolve & CC-breakes, use your own stuns, sprint or whatever to gain the advantage. Even on my Sorc I can take a full uninterrupted onslaught from an Operative and I'll still have over 50% health left. Although I've got full champion on her, wich removes a tad of the damage.

 

So, no offense, but Operative's ain't overpowered. The ones that are complaining just need to become better players and learn how to handle them.

[theMornox]

not to mention much of the cries come from pre 50's

[Barakus]

Not just that, a lot of times people aren't actually dying to the OPs. The Ops opens up on someone, the person also gets hit by damage from other sources but they only see the OPs standing over them so they assume all the damage came from them.

 

That's because 90% of the damage did come from them. Even if you have full champion gear a decked out operative will take you to like 30-40% health before you even get up from his knockdown.

 

I think the main reason people complain about the Operative is because there isn't much you can do to prevent yourself from being jumped by one. You might get lucky and spot him in stealth but if he gets the jump on your and your CC break is on cooldown, he's pretty much beaten you already. You might as well just wait for the respawn button to pop up.

 

No other class can totally destroy people like an Operative can in 1v1. Those that come close at least allow you to fight back before you die.

 

When I join a warzone and see a Battlemaster Operative on the enemy team, I know we've probably lost already.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Barakus

[Allfader]

No one would be posting ONLY about Operatives but other classes. I have sat here for about 20 minutes reading the first 5 pages of threads and the only class I see people having complaints about being OP is the Operative. Obviously if its more then one person saying something about it, something must be partially true. I personally get 1 shotted from Operatives on my Sith Assassin and only last a few seconds on my Bounty Hunter Merc.

 

I tried to not jump on the band wagon about "Oh OPS are way too OP" but after tonight's results in PVP I have finally gave in, I'm sorry but Operatives need something adjusted.

 

Here's what I saw on the first page besides your post:

 

Nerf Sorcs/Sages

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=176243

 

Nerf Marauders/Sentinels

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=176518

 

Your point is invalid. Just because they kill YOU doesn't mean they're overpowered. I saw a guy post in here that Operatives need to be nerfed because he can solo 5 people without heals and live for 60 seconds, but an Operative can kill him.

 

Let me reiterate that point. 5 people FF dpsing him can not kill him in less than 60 seconds without him getting heals, but Operatives are overpowered because they can kill him. He was calling for a nerf for the one class that can kill him, and I'm willing to bet that, based on the false information you started your post with, that you are calling for the same.

 

The reason more people complain about the Operative than any other class is because less people play an Operative than any other class. It is the least represented class in the game, so it gets less defense. But let me break down why you're wrong about the Operative.

 

Their only utility is stealth. Their best damage is by their out-of-stealth ability. Once they use that, they are exposed and vulnerable. They are only good 1v1 at their own level. Now, if you're level 26 in Warzones and getting slaughtered by a Centurion+ geared 50 Op, then yeah, you're screwed every time. But when they attack somebody with 15K+ health with 8.00%+ Expertise, they do a lot less damage, and have to be better at their own class in order to secure a victory.

 

Wait until 50's only brackets come out, and then see how effective Operatives really are before you call for a nerf. I assure you there are other ACs in the game that need a nerf far more than Operatives do.

[Abelf]

An interesting thing about the knockdown from stealth is that taking that talent is actually a nerf to an Ops control. It's good for shock and awe, but not much else. It fills the resolve bar, thus negating our 3 sec stun and 8 sec mez. I would much rather not have the knockdown so that I can 3 sec stun after my opening rotation to let backstab come off CD. Then use the 8 sec mez as a second interrupt.

 

I can just imagine the epic QQ if Ops had their current burst while being able to completely lockdown the other player.

 

When you get knocked down by an Op, don't say, "I hate being knocked flat on my back!" Instead, you should say, "Thank God that filled my resolve bar."