Bregah Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ok, so I hit 50 last night on my Juggernaut tank. I had one bag in my inventory, and was able to immediately buy 3 more. I do not know if I did an excessive amount of PvP while leveling up, but I bought most of the level 20 armors for myself and most of the level 40 armors for both myself and my main-used companion, and was Valor level 27 when I hit 50. Those 4 bags gave me 12 commendations, and that's it (well some credits). So nothing useful so far, as the cheapest item is 14 commendations. There are 50's on my server that are fully decked out in expertise gear already (a few of them were done nearly a week ago). Against these 4 man pre-mades, I am still, at 50, with zero expertise, basically ineffective. There is at least 1 pre-made that runs with a decked heals. When I get these guys on my team, it's 100% a win. When they are on the other team, it's 100% a loss. Yes, they are very coordinated (when my guild does warzones, we also vent, and generally win easily, unless up against expertise-laden 50's - but we are not a PvP guild), but they are also nearly done gearing. My math shows me that if I never get lucky (and I'm only 0 for 4 so far), that I will get 3 commendations each bag (as that's what I have gotten from each bag so far). Each bag costs 200/200, so that means 800 warzone commendations for a bag. Warzones take 15 minutes, and I'll use an average of 100 commendations per WZ for example purposes, but that means that it's 2 hours of warzoning for a bag (queues are generally under 2 minutes on my server, but also at the moment the warzones on my server are dominated by the expertise-laden 50's). Bags give 3 commendations, so that's 3 commendations in 2 hours. Items cost anywhere from 14 to 39 (with the weapon at 72), so disgregarding the weapon, let's generally call the average 24 commendations to buy an item. That's, roughly, 16 hours of warzones to get an item, on average, using general numbers (that I'm sure aren't 100% accurate). Being as I'm at work, I can't remember exactly how many slots there are, but I believe it's over 10. So over 160 hours of warzoning to gear to full expertise - assuming you get no items from bags. Are my numbers accurate? If not, how far are they off? If they are accurate, does that not seem excessive to anyone else? Especially since new 50's will always be going up against geared 50's the moment they ding 50. My experience gearing a new max level toon in WoW was always bad (currently have 4.2 pvp geared resto shaman, feral druid, blood DK and holy priest, but haven't played WoW since before 4.3 came out, and have no desire to go back), but the numbers I'm coming up with here seem drastically worse - and add in arena/rated BG gear from WoW and it was much easier to get to the point where what mattered in PvP was no longer your gear, but your skill. So why expertise anyway? Why can't PvP just come down to group coordination/communcation and player skill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krytycal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It all comes down to luck. I'm rank 58 and still missing 5 chamption pieces, including main hand and off-hand. I've seen rank 30s with close to the entire set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetickone Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 its only going to get worse. BM tokens are beign removed, so add another 300 percent to the time it takes to get your BM set (by then there will be another set and another genius screw-you-casuals currency system in place). Much as I enjoyed the game to 50, no thanks after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carliiiiito Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 and its only gonna get worse when they bracket 50s alone. no more lvl 10-40 nooblets to grind ur medals on ,now its all 50s so for people not 50 yet,or not decked out when brackets happen.the grind is only gonna be longer.And expertise geared premades will still roll over non expertise 50s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sowwy Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 and its only gonna get worse when they bracket 50s alone. no more lvl 10-40 nooblets to grind ur medals on ,now its all 50s so for people not 50 yet,or not decked out when brackets happen.the grind is only gonna be longer.And expertise geared premades will still roll over non expertise 50s. I''m afraid of this as well. Longer queues, longer grind. I cannot fathom their logic on this issue. Furthermore, their silence on it doesn't inspire confidence. One of two impressions is given due to a lack of response. Either 1, they want to fix it but are unsure about a solution or 2, they're happy with the current system. Both are rather depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyotecalls Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Which is why I'm canceling now. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bregah Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ok, so the first few replies tell my general idea is not wrong. What that then tells me is that PvP is simply in this game as a way to gear up yourself and your companion in good level 20 gear, then good level 40 gear, and then as a diversion for interesting gaming until you hit 50. As an avid PvPer from WoW (like my OP said - I haven't played since before 4.3 came out, but I have 4 fully geared, though of various tiers, level 85 toons - my resto shaman being my arena/rated geared toon - but 3 others with at minimum 4.2 honor gear), I think this is a terrible system. It's WoW, only worse, at least in terms of the gear grind and simply how much gear matters. I find that sad, as, apart from my FPS dropping from 35-50 anywhere else in the world (including Fleet) to a max of 15 in any warzone, the warzones are pretty fun. And it was genious to include a same-faction warzone, though the drastic faction imbalance means that Huttball is what I see 95% of the time. (more same-faction warzones please!) But the gear grind tells me, a single consumer/player, that when I ding 50 it's in my best interest for my sanity to stop queuing. Which is fine enough, but that's just another aspect of this game that is either unavailable or unfun to do (the WoW pvp gear grind on a new 85 is something I never want to experience again, ever - and this seems like WoW's pvp gear grind multiplied by 4 or 5). But thanks for the replies. Looks like next week when the 50 bracket goes in, I'll stop PvPing on my 50 Juggernaut and start on my 20 Sorc (until that toon hits 50). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zidaen Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) It's luck. However the stats, if you do your daily illim+warzone which in the week finishes your weekly odd are good that 4 weeks = full champ set. Not to say it will happen, a friend of mine opened his first 5 bags and got pieces. I opened 17 and got comms. Another friend just got 4 MH weapons in a row. Either way, with casuallu doing 3 WZ a day and Illum daily you end up with enough cent comms to have a good tier 1.0 pvp set within a month. Add luck to that and now you have a few champ pieces and fill the rest in with Cent. 2x weekly=6 bags, 2x daily=2 bags and every 10 losses (roughly)= 1 bag (buying champ bags with merc/WZ comms). So in a week you get (7x2)+(3x2)+y where y on average for me is 3 (just doing dailies). The way I do it, I didn't buy a Cent piece until I had a few champ pieces in case I got lucky. Nothing sucks more than buying a piece of Cent and then getting that piece in Champ from a daily bag. it may not be the best system but it isn't the worst. You can get decent gear with little effort and be effective. If 23 bags a week from 2 dailies is not casual enough then I don't know. Especially considering Champ gear is good enough as a starter raiding set. Otherwise the PVE weekly/daily only provide comms (no chance at a piece) and can be considered much less "casual" friendly for similar amount of work... Though pvp can be mindless and pve currently requires some focus as a healer. Edited January 14, 2012 by Zidaen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenthum Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If 23 bags a week from 2 dailies is not casual enough then I don't know. Especially considering Champ gear is good enough as a starter raiding set. Otherwise the PVE weekly/daily only provide comms (no chance at a piece) and can be considered much less "casual" friendly for similar amount of work... Though pvp can be mindless and pve currently requires some focus as a healer. If you're grinding 23 bags a week you're not playing casually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDaniels Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 It isn't bad, it's just 100% RNG and that is most of what people complain about. I've heard of people getting 3 or 4 items from very few bags, and I have a guildie who has yet to get a piece and has opened 30+ bags... it's that discrepancy that gets people upset, the system rewards luck not skill or effort and people dont like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duaragon Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ir is based on pure hardcore boring grind... i say more, considering the fact even tier 1 set [the worst one] takes so much time its almost mindless...At the time you get the full tier 1 and around 3/4 [depend on luck mostly, you can get even full or simply none] tier 2 set i bet you will start to purelly hate the warzones... I consider myself quite decent pvper, im not pvp nerd thou i go just for fun from time to time [i prefer pve over pvp] and as and example - i like to get centurion set just for the apperance [i think its quite fine design, would love to have it, reforge it for pve and use it] still BW didnt considered there are people like me that dont like to no-life 24/7 doing boring grind. The daily quests and weekly quests are boring as well, and become more bring when they add next week a player kill requirement for them since ilum is sometimes deserted and it will be hardcore to complete the ks if no republic/imperial players will be there. As for me - they should either rise the centurion/champion comendations we get from bags [to 5/10-15/30 at least per bag not 1-3 =.=] or just create a vendor with all empty armor designs so we could buy them for the nice look and forge them with our own mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The gear doesnt seem to be that much of an issue coming from the lower levels.fully decked 50's dont roll me at 25 unless there are more than 2.Sure they will win in most 1v1 but I can still keep 'em busy for a while and hurt them or kill them if already hurting. can the gear issue be that big of a deal at 50 with modest pvp gear.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banemin Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) The gear doesnt seem to be that much of an issue coming from the lower levels. fully decked 50's dont roll me at 25 unless there are more than 2. Sure they will win in most 1v1 but I can still keep 'em busy for a while and hurt them or kill them if already hurting. can the gear issue be that big of a deal at 50 with modest pvp gear.? just look at what expertise does. someone mostly decked out in expertise gear is basically untouchable by a level 50 w/o pvp gear, let alone lowbies. to OP, i don't see the point in grinding warzones when the time/bag payoff is so shoddy compared to just doing the dailies, unless you're obsessed with getting geared right away (good luck with the lottery system) Edited January 14, 2012 by banemin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPony Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Opened 7 Champion bags today and not a single unassembled part. *cries himself to sleep and dreams of putting the "Hey, let's make pvp loot random!" inventor to the pyre after taking it out on a kitten* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiaaa Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Actually its worse then it seems. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyGremlin Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 just look at what expertise does. someone mostly decked out in expertise gear is basically untouchable by a level 50 w/o pvp gear, let alone lowbies. to OP, i don't see the point in grinding warzones when the time/bag payoff is so shoddy compared to just doing the dailies, unless you're obsessed with getting geared right away (good luck with the lottery system) Guess i haven't seen it. I see more people popping 3 consumables mitigating any damage i did to them. Ill have to look into it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkantar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Iam valor 56 to the 57, i openend allready 60+ bags and i need Pants, head, Mainhand, and Belt. The best part is i have 10 Implantats, 6 Offhand, 5 Earpiece. When i could buy the also for more then one companion ^^ Also i got everytime i bought an Cent item the champion tolen a few days later.This Farming thing is very annoying, people of my guild who open 6 bags got 4 Setitems in a row, many others with valor rank 20 run around with full Champion Gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you hit 50 and could only buy 3 bags you weren't PvPing enough. The fact that this game hasn't even been out for a month and people are complaining about the grind amazes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raduph Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you hit 50 and could only buy 3 bags you weren't PvPing enough. The fact that this game hasn't even been out for a month and people are complaining about the grind amazes me. Wrong. Get your facts straight. The pvp bag you can buy is UNIQUE (the quest ones are not) cant have more than one and requires lvl 50 to open. Most you could farm before 50 is 1 bag in inventory and 1k wz and 1k merc comms. a grand total of 6 bags. ive opened around 35 so far and im half way through on gearing. im thankful i got lucky and got the damn main hand as thats my biggest dps boost as vanguard. Nice comment, love the attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaostic Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) im pvp rank 40 just got my title and ive opened around 17 bags and have not recieved one piece of gear makes me wonder if its even worth pvping its already bad enough dealing with the CC Edited January 14, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigr_Fingr Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Which is why I'm canceling now. Good luck with that. Which is why the game is better without you. Go enjoy some world of warcraft with some pokeman battles. Leave the real PvP grind for the people who enjoy playing the game. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midbeck Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 So what you are saying is that you guys want all gear handed to you like in WoW? Give back the farm and the grind! Earn the gear by spending time in the warzones! I hope they won't change it. You shouldn't be able to have a full set of pvp gear in 2days, it should take time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) im pvp rank 40 just got my title and ive opened around 17 bags and have not recieved one piece of gear makes me wonder if its even worth pvping its already bad enough dealing with the CC Dont give up! I finally got my saber tonight, was in the 5th and final bag of the day! A week solid of tokens was repaid. Edited January 14, 2012 by Paralassa content quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) No one, I repeat, NO ONE, would be complaining if Champion pieces required VALOR LEVEL 50 to wear. I'm 54 and I feel disgusted when I inspect the Marauder next to me who's Valor 32 with 5/5 Champ, Champ MH/OH, Cent/Champ implants/ear/relics. They did not "earn" those items. I'm tired of people just questing to 50 jumping in a couple warzones and derping their way to a set better than what little champ pieces I have and the crappy Cent I've been able to grind out. And yes if you are a "true pvp'er" you do it for fun not for gear, but you know what? It's an MMO, the gear makes a big difference in fights, and when you keep losing because some other scrub got lucky and got more gear then you, it stops being fun. Edited January 14, 2012 by Dreadspectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZlupZlup Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 and its only gonna get worse when they bracket 50s alone. no more lvl 10-40 nooblets to grind ur medals on ,now its all 50s so for people not 50 yet,or not decked out when brackets happen.the grind is only gonna be longer.And expertise geared premades will still roll over non expertise 50s. lol so the fact you have to now fight people your own level instead of stomping a level 13 in to the ground is a bad idea???? Its not you just want easy mode for your gear. get over it. And I doubt the ques will be any longer for the 50 bracket as there are hundreds of 50's on servers (including mine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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