Bioware, Stop Protecting the Baddies

[Kourage]

Can't be my fault. I spam Rapid Shots and wear social armor.

[well]

Once upon a time people played MMOs without caring about Combat logs, damage meters or programs that evaluate other peoples specs and gear.

 

They tried to kill dragons anyway. And if they failed, they said "Hey nice try guys", then they tried again, only harder.

 

This game can be that way too. And right now, there is nothing hard enough to not do that way.

 

Back in Once Upon a Time, MMOs were more fun.

 

Keep that up and I will have to flag you.Games aren't suppose to be fun!:mad:

I also remember playing online and having a good time with a group.No one worried about your specs it was just to go out and enjoy the game.To bad it has changed.The reason I solo with few exceptions.Someone needs help I don't mind jumping in.That is about it anymore.

[Kurfer]

This is quite elitist; and classless actually.

 

You make an ATTEMPT to guise your request for good: but then ruin it and how your true feelings; exposed yourself as an incapable tool you did.

 

You sit around and wait for your meters and logs and what not; once they are in someone will theorycraft for you so you can cut n paste their findings and call yourself a skilled player.

 

Meanwhile; I will be over here killing **** and helping out those who need it. You can catch up.

 

 

(oh, btw - the game is a month old. Which means the players you are going to run into are going to be anywhere from 2-6 weeks or so into the game. It is FAR to early to be labeling anyone baddies because of how they are playing. Luckily, we can start to filter out the baddies based on attitudes. Thank you! )

 

Well said,

 

The OP is part of these new generation baddies that like to have other people do the work for them. Truth is, most wow guilds that called themselves elite just copied the hard stuff off the few world firsts out there that paved the way for everyone.

 

Damage meters while I agree somewhat tell you how you're doing are not drastically needed, most baddies like the OP are one dimensional and will play the spoiled brat "i'm better than you" game comparing DPS among different classes regardless of whether or not someone is playing said class correctly.

 

I've been is many bad wow guilds were it was all about the dps and they couldn't progress past ****, it was always the healers fault or the tanks fault but they couldn't even stop spamming their brainless dps rotation to use utility "cleanse" type spells or god forbid off-heal during heavy boss burst.

 

Let's face it, a monkey can manage a dps rotation. Is the OP really wanting everything to made easier? Does your mom still cut your food for you?

[Drallbait]

Fully agree with the OP and so does a very large amount of the SWTOR community.

 

Crying "elitist" when folks want recount style feedback or the ability to compare specs with other players is an old failed argument. Get one that actually makes sense. The OP is right, if you want to do difficult tasks with a group of people, you need to have the ability to compare peoples output, specs, etc. That is how you improve. It is how we BW can make content progressively harder and people can defeat it.

 

Getting a guild in no way at all solves these issues. You folks who say this probably have very limited experience playing end game content with guilds. Playing various MMO's for the past 7 years, i have NEVER been in a guild that did not have a significant amount of folks who were either unable to adequately contribute in difficult content because their spec was WAY off OR their dps rotations were way off. Usually people have no problems fixing either issue IF they just know what to do.

 

OP is right. If want t play a game how you want, the way you want, and throw out any consideration for how it impacts group content, then stick with single player storycontent. Play SWTOR by yourself, or do single player games. This constant accusing folks of being elitist is stupid. You are either scarred for life by some jerk guild, or paranoid about others finding out how little you will contribute to your groups. Either way, get off it.

Great post OP.

 

It is fine to have optional access to combat numbers to help you improve yourself and your guild.

 

What isn't fine is stuff like "Bioware is protecting baddies!".

 

Bioware is making a game. They didn't have the time to put this feature in and this game is specifically designed with a focus that is casual, so it was not a top priority.

 

Has absolutely ZERO to do with "protecting baddies".

 

There are no "Baddies", there are just people that play a game in different ways. The one thing that should be true of all of them is a mutual respect and politeness for the way other people play.

 

So if you are out there running PuGs and making people feel bad because their DPS is low - you are the Baddy. You are the person making this game suck for others. Not the guy with the low DPS. They are playing a game for entertainment.

 

Now, that doesn't mean you can't have an Elitist guild that would gkick someone for low DPS. That is perfectly acceptable, and that is why those Elite folks that feel this way should play in guilds where that behavior is expected.

 

Similarly, Casuals shouldn't go around insulted Elitist Guilds for playing too much or being obsessed with numbers. And they shouldn't try to sneak into Elite guilds.

 

TL;DR version:

 

People can play however they want with other like minded people, but when you start playing with the general public, politeness and respect for others comes into play.

 

 

And then on a side note:

 

I personally enjoyed MMOs a ton more when the Elitists were just learning to play, and you learned how to kill bosses by playing the game not watching it on Youtube.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Drallbait

[Kurfer]

No side is going to convince the other that they are right.

 

 

 

Hardcore gamers, are probably also real life perfectionists. They strive to excel in everything they do, and their personality spills onto Gaming too, so they choose to spend their time Maxing out literally everything. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

Sorry, I hate to stereotype but I will.

 

Most hardcore gamers I know have problems with competition in anything other than video games. Most of them are hardcore because their RL is a wreck; you know how many arena gladiator kiddies i've had to deal with on my teams that managed to incorporate the word "skillcap" 3 times in every sentence?

 

They were train wrecks, so addicted beyond belief they were not capable of competing IRL. I'd call them fry cooks but most of them couldn't even manage to hold that job.

[Jett-Rinn]

Yes they are Hairless. Yes they are.

 

They're targeting all of the imbeciles that are still whining about Ghostcrawler hurting their feelings.

 

Didn't you leave...oh I know it's just one more post then you're really really really done?

 

Edited January 14, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Shortwave]

The argument, "If you're an 'elitist' in game means you likely fail irl" is for the most part tepid. Some of the best [technical] gamers I have known were quite accomplished in the real world; students in difficult academic programs, people who were raised by parents who told them to be the best at whatever they do, simple hard workers, and people of high paying careers - the guy who got me into WoW back in 2006, my neighbor, is a $200,000+/year dentist and quite the adept player. For some gaming is a hobby, and they view it as such... that hardly qualifies them as a loser.

 

This is just something fail players tell themselves to feel better. Kinda like how ugly people are usually the ones like "beauty is only skin deep," or poor rl scrubs who are more likely to claim "money doesn't make you happy.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Shortwave

[Ruser]

Here's a one-liner:

 

If 'hardcore gamers' were real life perfectionists, they wouldn't be 'hardcore gamers'.

 

that is awesome

 

i do not have a sig but i might borrow that for lol's

[Frostvein]

Fully agree with the OP and so does a very large amount of the SWTOR community.

 

Crying "elitist" when folks want recount style feedback or the ability to compare specs with other players is an old failed argument. Get one that actually makes sense. The OP is right, if you want to do difficult tasks with a group of people, you need to have the ability to compare peoples output, specs, etc. That is how you improve. It is how we BW can make content progressively harder and people can defeat it.

 

Getting a guild in no way at all solves these issues. You folks who say this probably have very limited experience playing end game content with guilds. Playing various MMO's for the past 7 years, i have NEVER been in a guild that did not have a significant amount of folks who were either unable to adequately contribute in difficult content because their spec was WAY off OR their dps rotations were way off. Usually people have no problems fixing either issue IF they just know what to do.

 

OP is right. If want t play a game how you want, the way you want, and throw out any consideration for how it impacts group content, then stick with single player storycontent. Play SWTOR by yourself, or do single player games. This constant accusing folks of being elitist is stupid. You are either scarred for life by some jerk guild, or paranoid about others finding out how little you will contribute to your groups. Either way, get off it.

Great post OP.

 

This. I don't how you play the game, and you shouldn't care how I play, either.

[Setanian]

Which is generally how they try to convince themselves that they aren't failures at the game.

 

If you are better than me or have more stuff than me, you are a no lifer, fat, basement dweller etc.

If you are worse than me or have less stuff than me, you are a noob, delete your game etc.

 

Thats a classic post, kudos.

[Kurfer]

Nah, I sound like I help those who underperform along by pointing things out politely. I sound like I can read tooltips and deduce which skills I use, when and in which order. I sound like I don't go on forums to cry about people wanting tools and crutches only to want them myself. I sound like I've played MMO's before Wrath of The Lich King. I sound like someone who will be patient when a group quest, flashpoint or operation goes wrong, trying to figure out how to make it right. I sound like someone who wouldn't vent his issues with those he's grouping with. I sound like someone playing MMO's because I find them engaging, fun and socially relevant.

 

Everything you, and the OP, are not.

 

The would-be elite forums aren't here. I suggest you keep on looking for them, and refrain from treading among us lesser beings. I can only imagine the baddies who have cleared the current content without the crutches you need to clear it, under the disguise of needing it to sort out 'teh baddies'.

 

This is about the nicest way of saying "go **** yourself" I have ever seen.

 

Well done sir!

[Krelan]

People who want damage meters are the same idiots who stand in the fire and expect the healer to keep them alive 'because I'd lose my top DPS spot!', and then whine incessantly at the tank and/or healer when they die. Or, they refuse to drop a few spot heals here and there when an extra mob or two gets aggro'd, because once again, they don't want to lose their e-peen bragging rights.

 

Pre-WoW MMOs had MUCH harder raid content than modern games, and yet people cleared it all the time without damage/threat meters. They actually learned by practicing, and discussing things, not just punching raw numbers into a calculator. Go figure, huh?

 

Amazes me to no end how the people who are demanding crutches think they're better than the 'baddies' who can manage just fine without them.

[Frostvein]

People who want damage meters are the same idiots who stand in the fire and expect the healer to keep them alive 'because I'd lose my top DPS spot!',

 

Terrible generalization.

 

Thanks for contributing nothing to the conversation.

[Shortwave]

People who want damage meters are the same idiots who stand in the fire and expect the healer to keep them alive 'because I'd lose my top DPS spot!', and then whine incessantly at the tank and/or healer when they die. Or, they refuse to drop a few spot heals here and there when an extra mob or two gets aggro'd, because once again, they don't want to lose their e-peen bragging rights.

 

Pre-WoW MMOs had MUCH harder raid content than modern games, and yet people cleared it all the time without damage/threat meters. They actually learned by practicing, and discussing things, not just punching raw numbers into a calculator. Go figure, huh?

 

Amazes me to no end how the people who are demanding crutches think they're better than the 'baddies' who can manage just fine without them.

 

 

And sweeping generalizations don't make you an "idiot"? I would be fine without some recount meter, but if they introduced one, all the better. I say this as a dedicated MMO healer. To the keen reader, you have likely embarrassed yourself with that first sentence.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Shortwave

[Setanian]

Don't worry guys. BW doesn't care about the 0.001% of the playerbase who used to get kicked from pugs in WoW.

 

We are getting full combat logging. BW confirmed it.

 

On top of that, BW is making an in-game tool that tracks your personal performance. Everyone will be aware of their own performance. Even baddies will know how bad themselves are.

Baddies can no longer use the excuse "I dont want to download 3rd party addon" to remain ignorant of their horrible DPS.

 

So in your ideal world, there'll be;

 

baddies

ignorant baddies

and you the face rolling baddies.

 

I can live with that.

[Marlaine]

Anyone who calls someone else a "baddie" has issues. I know how to maximize dps as well, but that gives none of us any right to be so blatantly insulting to others. What we should really do is try to help as best we can, and ignore those who are too young to understand or unwilling to understand.

[LucasBishop]

I feel your hatred, it makes you strong, gives you focus

[Supahhappy]

I love the smell of QQ in the morning.

 

Even

are laughing at the OP.

[Setanian]

Anyone who calls someone else a "baddie" has issues. I know how to maximize dps as well, but that gives none of us any right to be so blatantly insulting to others. What we should really do is try to help as best we can, and ignore those who are too young to understand or unwilling to understand.

 

I'm from a different era of MMOs.. I'm still trying to work out what a knuckle-dragger is and whether it's polite or an insult..

[Game_Hermit]

I'm tired of grouping with a DPS who I find out is specced into reduction in AoE damage.

If you don't think AOE damage is a problem for melee DPS I have two hints for you.

 

1: Your healer secretly hates you.

2: There's a baddie, but it's not him.

[Zalanox]

If you don't think AOE damage is a problem for melee DPS I have two hints for you.

 

1: Your healer secretly hates you.

2: There's a baddie, but it's not him.

 

You could try not standing in it.

[Aramyth]

For the love of falling hydrospanners, READ THE DEV POSTS. They are working a combat log, where you will AT LEAST be able to see your own performance. As for the rest of it... try finding a guild. I'm sure there are some other elitists you can count beans with.

 

This is one thing that I am not sure why I wasn't in the release version. The data for even your combat is already there, they just need to print it to the UI.

[imtrick]

I love meters. I love add-ons. I love macros.

 

I wish anyone who resorts to calling people "baddies" in an attempt to get them would just go away, because they're the reason so many people don't want me to have them.

 

Please, OP, don't speak for me. You're not helping.

[Game_Hermit]

You could try not standing in it.

 

Seriously? A melee DPS shouldn't stand in a PBAOE centered on the boss he's supposed to be DPSing? Please explain to me how that's supposed to work?

[JonnyFreedom]

I'll gladly help folks. Will they stop petitioning for a regressive Amish-grade UI?

 

So then I might as well play naked. Hey why not.. it's how I want to play. Tough ******* if it negatively effects you. Hell I am a naked gamer.

 

If you want to play casual then don't play a game that requires skill, interaction with others or blocks of time. Play a game that caters to your casual play style. AKA Single Player games or games where you just can get up walk away, be terrible, play with your kids, cook dinner, smoke your mary j, aka not effect others.