RG_jhanlec Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Largest problem I see is really just a population issue for Illum. Most of the time I go there (Empire) there are 2-20 empire and 0-3 republic players around. So the only way to actually do the daily is to wait around for hours, or flip objectives for each other and maybe fight after you're all done and then head out. Occasionally I have gotten there and seen 10+ Republic and have been the only empire player there, in this instance I am happy to flip for them til another Empire player gets there or they all have their daily done, because so often they do this favor for me (Empire players). Basically, until you can float a constant 30 of each side in Illum its always going to be hard to get objectives done easily the correct way, if at all. In concept Illum is currently an amazing idea in terms of "fun factor". We just lack the basic resource of bodies to enjoy it properly. Want to fix Illum PvP and daily objectives now? Then you either need level stat buffing like War Zones and make it open to all levels above say, 30... Make Illum work for several servers in one area (cross server like). Or place objectives that don't rely on opposite faction to complete, but may have related but differing objectives (FPS or WZ like). Having related but different objectives could work with population issues if set up right. One week Side A may be defending 3-4 nodes across the map (say power units). They must kill X number of Side B and/or protect an objective for 5-10 min while being within 150 meters of it. Side B must destroy X number of said objectives or Kill X number of players that are within 150 meters of objective. This way, if people are around you may find you get kills faster as long as thy don't destroy the objective. If players aren't around, you can get your daily done by standing within 150M of objective for 5-10 min. Just an idea.... No matter what happens there will always be complainers. Just remember that the most vocal are often the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 No, but it sort of Bioware's fault for making the Republic side far less appealing to a larger group of the community. If servers were split down the middle a little more I could see Ilum being incredibly fun and enjoyable. But in the current state of MOST servers it's not really feasible for players to get dailies done due to the sheer lack of opposing faction presence on the planet. *edit*: Force lightning is almost always going to be cooler looking then any light-side design equivalent to most players. But that doesn't detract from the sheer silliness that a lot of the Republic abilities have in how they work compared to Imperial "mirrors". On top of that, the clear opinion of *most* players is that the Imperial story lines are better and the armor is much better. I'm a little different in that I think the best looking pvp armor is the lvl 50 expertise-quality Sage armor. But otherwise, I agree that the Imperial armor is universally better on all other classes. Sorry, not true. I repeat; Bioware is in no way responsible for players going to a planet expressly created for PvP combat and then choosing not to kill each other. That is 100%, entirely and completely on the players themselves. They should be laughed at until their respective genitals shrivel up and fall off if they even suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky_walkerPL Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) What will stop us from doing this: A penalty for dying while in Illum would stop us from working cooperatively together. If when dying we lost valor and/or credits it would no longer make sense for us to trade player kills back and forth. (...) Edit: Bioware was actually on to something with Outlaw's Den with resource nodes and security chests; But then they removed them. Outlaw's Den was the only place where I engaged in world PvP. I did so because I didn't want people to take resource nodes from me, or get my Mercenary commendations. These two ideas are good: 1. Give a penalty for loosing. 2. Give a reward for holding objectives (time of holding the objectives should be counted on player basic, not faction basic - to encourage players staying for longer doing the objectives instead of jumping in - taking bonus - jumping out as it happens now with 200 valor PvP bonus) I repeat; Bioware is in no way responsible for players going to a planet expressly created for PvP combat and then choosing not to kill each other. Ouch... I expected something like that from bioware itself, not community. OF COURSE that it's a bioware fault! BAD GAME DESIGN is a fault of it's AUTHOR not people playing the game. and that's what we have currently on Ilum: Bad game design. Edited January 13, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandTrout Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Easy way to end this: 1) Gather a group of 5-10 like minded individuals 2) Ops 3) Hunt down and slaughter every red name you see in the battle of Ilum without hesitation or mercy. 4) Watch as people start attacking red-names on sight because they're afraid of being ganked again. Edit: At the side discussion: Centralized economic systems have failed more often than free-market based systems. USA > USSR, South Korea > North Korea, Taiwan > China (per captia basis) All of the socialist european nations are on the brink of economic collapse, and the USA is now struggling under the burdens of socialistic entitlement programs(check the budget to see #s). Edited January 13, 2012 by SandTrout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malissant Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Easy way to end this: 1) Gather a group of 5-10 like minded individuals 2) Ops 3) Hunt down and slaughter every red name you see in the battle of Ilum without hesitation or mercy. 4) Watch as people start attacking red-names on sight because they're afraid of being ganked again. This would be fun, if there were more than 5 people on Ilum at any given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrustyDog Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Once me and my guild are all 50 we will personally stop people from co-op'ing by killing everyone. THERE WILL BE NO KUMBAYA ON MY WATCH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandTrout Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This would be fun, if there were more than 5 people on Ilum at any given time. Find them on the Fleet or from your guild. I've seen some major fights occur on ilum because one of the few republic PvP guilds brought out a wolf-pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malissant Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Find them on the Fleet or from your guild. I've seen some major fights occur on ilum because one of the few republic PvP guilds brought out a wolf-pack. It's not as easy as it sounds, or I guess more people would be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieDaMac Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This just makes me realize how smart Blizzard was to restrict /say to just your faction only and only allow you to create one faction on a specific server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotsky_tor Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This just makes me realize how smart Blizzard was to restrict /say to just your faction only and only allow you to create one faction on a specific server. because it was so difficult to arrange the exact same things via ventrilo/realm forums/emoting/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montbrun Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) "What will stop us from doing this:" One character per faction per server, especially on PvP servers. That's the only solution to a poor BW decision. Edited January 13, 2012 by Montbrun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorto Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Posts on Illum and world pvp are pointless. Bioware cant patch people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromica Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have to point out the extreme silliness of this. Bioware created a planet where people are supposed to go with the goal of fighting each other. It's called Ilum. It is in no way Bioware's fault if the idiotic players who go there willingly chose not to fight each other. It is there fault for designing daily quests that have such an easy work around. I can almost guarantee that the majority of people that go to Ilum only go to get there daily and weekly quests done just to get the gear, most people don't care about pvping just to kill the other side its all about the reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haqim Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Lol at people who say that will trade kills after 1.1 hits in. Especially on PVP servers. Right now i get why some people want to trade points, as it is impossible to get daily done without letting republic do their part. But when quest requires killing other side players? Why in the world would you trade kills?! Just kill the damn republic/sith and get gear while the other side gets nothing. Isn't this nicer? Especially when valor gain will be higher for kills and will increase for each point controlled. People should already see that it will be beneficial to protect those points and kill other side while not dying themselves.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilus Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Once me and my guild are all 50 we will personally stop people from co-op'ing by killing everyone. THERE WILL BE NO KUMBAYA ON MY WATCH!!! And then your own faction and eventually your own guild will hate you because no one can get their dailies/weekly done. Bad design is bad. I have said this in the many other threads discussing this issue. Patch 1.1 changes nothing, because you either need kills and/or armaments, so people will choose the later because slaughtering the other side still only hurts you and your own faction, it's not that hard to understand. And those "hardcore" pvp'ers talking all high and mighty here, please, you too are and will be abusing the bad design too just to get gear. The whole system is crap and we have no choice but smell it or quit the game, pick one and stick to it, because there is no middle ground here. Edited January 13, 2012 by Maximilus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilus Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Lol at people who say that will trade kills after 1.1 hits in. Especially on PVP servers. Right now i get why some people want to trade points, as it is impossible to get daily done without letting republic do their part. But when quest requires killing other side players? Why in the world would you trade kills?! Just kill the damn republic/sith and get gear while the other side gets nothing. Isn't this nicer? Especially when valor gain will be higher for kills and will increase for each point controlled. People should already see that it will be beneficial to protect those points and kill other side while not dying themselves.... You don't understand how it works do you? If you kill them, neither you or them get nothing, no daily or weekly, bad design is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suolucidir Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Penalty for dying has been proven over and over to inhibit PvP. But I do agree with your overall premise. Developers always seem to miss the point when making a PvP zone. Killing playes IS the objective of PvP, we don't need artificial "objectives" to flip back and forth to create the environment. Just being there IS the environment. I'm not against having a few bases to attack and defend etc, but Ilum is silliness defined. The more developers try to figure out how to inspire the worse it gets. Remove the flippable objectives and give straight valor for killing people and let the fun begin. PVP seemed pretty popular in UO. Them were the days, though, right? Of course the consequence free "server wars" were huge, but there was still enough PVP during normal times. That's with the consequence of losing ALL OF YOUR GEAR on death, usually, or at least potentially. Of course this was before blessed items became commonplace, and so people rarely went out with their precious rare items or epics equipped. 'twas the hard knock life. This doesn't even bring into account the penalties for murderers. The problem is that with a system that keeps all of your characters stats and items firmly secured it's very difficult to match incentives for fighting with penalties for dying. Sigh... I'm having a blast with this game so far, but I miss the days when the game wasn't about the shiny epics. Massive bout of nostalgia here. Edited January 13, 2012 by Suolucidir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haqim Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You don't understand how it works do you? If you kill them, neither you or them get nothing, no daily or weekly, bad design is bad. You didn't read my post, did you? I said i understand a little NOW. But after the patch is in, and you will HAVE to kill others..well. I just say that trading KILLS is stupid as hell and only proves that people doing it cannot get their pvp gear other way. Like via goddamn pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieDaMac Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 because it was so difficult to arrange the exact same things via ventrilo/realm forums/emoting/etc. Difficult enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechMaestro Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The whole issue is that there is a gear grind attached to pvp. PvP gear should have been completely crafted with an ingredient that needed to be collected from an area which you need to hold and defend for some amount of time before you can start 'mining' the ingredient. The daily/weekly pvp quests should also include an enemy player kill objective which would count only while attacking/defending the area around the 'mine'. The pvp gear would also require valor ranks to be able to equip it in addition to multiple tiers. The higher tier ingredients would be extremely rare player kill drops ONLY within the area and/or from holding the 'mine' for an extended period of time. This would give an incentive to defend instead of just swapping control in order to complete quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilus Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You didn't read my post, did you? I said i understand a little NOW. But after the patch is in, and you will HAVE to kill others..well. I just say that trading KILLS is stupid as hell and only proves that people doing it cannot get their pvp gear other way. Like via gosh darn pvp You still don't understand, not even the patch notes, clear as day: enemy kills and/or collect armaments - meaning kill trading will not even happen and Ilum will remain the same except now instead of doing the quest in 5 minutes, it may take 7 due to the armament collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffie Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Anarchy Online towers was perfect, they actually gave you something worth having and fighting over. Haven't seen anything like that in other games yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think this might work for incentive to kill each other... for each point controlled by your faction you get a bonus to your valor for each kill you make, the more points you control the more valor you get for each kill.... You could also make it the longer you control points the cheaper pvp stuff is to buy on pvp vendors... losers have to pay more.... Wouldn't hurt to have each main base only go vulnerable at certain times, the guilds who do the most to take it over get their guild name on the base.... Have a few world bosses with long respawn timers that drop killer loot out in the pvp area of illum.... Just a few ideas of how to create incentives to get people to pvp.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaskaszh Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) It is there fault for designing daily quests that have such an easy work around. I can almost guarantee that the majority of people that go to Ilum only go to get there daily and weekly quests done just to get the gear, most people don't care about pvping just to kill the other side its all about the reward. Bioware doesn't regulate player behavior. If you're really a "true PvPer" as most of you claim to be (and I'm finding most of you are just gear whores) then you should foam at the mouth when you see a red nametag, think "BLEEP the objective!", and kill them. If you prefer to let the other side live, you're the lazy idiot. Or coward. Choose one and live with it. Either way, grow up and stop blaming it on someone else. Edited January 14, 2012 by Zaskaszh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukirshiro Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 You know what else would stop you from doing this? Banning your account. Since you've now annoucned that you do it, I very much hope this thread has been forwarded to the ban department so they can be ready to dish them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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