PVP game types and ideas

[Harcagnel]

CRITICAL UPDATE: THE MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE THAT COULD BE MADE IS A MAP FILTER. Then introducing infection maps, or standardized gear maps, maps with NPCs or ranked skill maps are options you can play if you want and players that don't want to ... don't have to play that way.

Filter options:

- PVP ranked bracket : play against players your PVP rank on non-standardized gear maps pvp rank is the current system used and would allow players to face off based on roughly the same amount of pvp experiance... some of them have not been getting better just playing alot but they should of learned by now and you are more than willing to "teach" them. The intent would be to show your "skill and gear" superiority to players who have played as long as you.

- PVP skill class brackets: play against players your skill class on standardized gear maps. Skill class is earned on a bimonthly baisis so if you don't play you drop back down like the starcraft 2 ranking system you play 5 rounds to get ranked then the rank updates according to stats to better place you with poeple your skill level, this changes generic armor maps value away from players skill with there classes to players teamwork only, because now your gear is even and your skill levels should be roughly even too.

---The above 2 would be exclusive to each other you can play with people your experience level, your skill level, or be grouped in what ever group will take you so you que faster---

- Maps you are willing to play (more maps = faster que, but fewer means you don't play as many you don't like)

- Game types and styles (again more is faster, fewer is quality)

 

Of course you may need to merge servers together and/or make cross server ques in order to accommodate the multiple PVP options running at the same time, but alot of MMOFPS use these options already (I can think of Halo and the Battlefield games of the top of my head ) and some MMORPGs as well but not normally this deep because FPS has a more PVP concentrated base where RPGs have a single player, flashpoint, Operations and a lot more people standing around and just talking so even with more players total would have less players in PVP at one time.

 

Types:

1. Showdown : 1 vs 1 , what ever gear you have vs any one other player

(the can I beat you test!, better gear, more skill , or most over powered class all fair game)

 

2. Duel : 1 vs 1 , all competitors use a generic armor sets and fight only against their own advanced class

(Who is the most skilled in you AC, same armor and same abilities mean I beat you because I am better at my class)

 

3. Team : team vs team for a common goal what ever gear you bring

( the only pvp currently available)

 

4. Standoff : team vs team in generic armor sets

( skill and team work for the win )

 

5. Tactical assault: team vs team in what ever armor you bring, and few groups of strong NPCs defending key spots on the field, Kill players to eliminate the enemies or aid NPC defense to protect your own base.

(Kind of a "covert" ops and base defense option that allows one or two players defending with NPCs to pose a serious threat while the rest of the team is counter attacking)

 

6. Warfront : team vs team in generic armor sets, and a lot of standard NPCs assisting on the field both in assault and defense, Kill players to eliminate the enemies best, or aid NPCs to tip the scale of numbers in your favor. Vehicles and turrets included!

(Kind of a Starwars battlefront option with lots of easy kills)

 

7. Free for all : 1 vs all ... its not random luck, its all skill! ... I think.

( there can be only one )

 

8. Dog fight: StarShip vs StarShip starwars battle front 2 / starfox style

( DO A BARREL ROLE! )

 

9. Vehicular homicide: Tank and Walkers and Speeders Oh MY! Because killing people is fine and all but I want to really blow some stuff up!

 

Styles:

A. Attack and Defend - attack a base destroy it to win. Sometimes two base and some times you have 1 and you take turns on defense/offense.

(general / standard assault)

 

B. Attack and Defend Field control - you try and balance defense and offense to control key objectives until time runs out until time runs out

(Like star wars battlefront, also a kind of king of the hill with multiple hills )

 

C. Mobil defense - protect a player, object, or area as it moves around the field, failing to control it for a set amount of time or more than you opponent and you lose.

(King of the hill, "VIP" escort)

 

D. Steal and protect - both teams start with an object the other tries to steel, have both at the same time to win/score

( standard capture the flag )

 

E. Dominate and Deliver - object on the feild is fought for then delivered to an area on one side of the field some times your own some times your opponents.

( Hutball, other games have used bombs or flags)

 

F. Slayer - kill the most of the other team to win

 

G. turncoat - players are divided into uneven teams but went the small team defeats a player they come back on their team

(usually called "infection" and it usually means zombies but Rakghouls would be fine, lol but they could also have it set up so that players in the large group are crazed and the small group knocks since into them or "cures" them of their insanity)

 

Additional Notes:

- I think all game types should have at least one map that allows you to fight your own faction. (#2 being only vs your own AC)

 

- Each the 5 team types could have at least one map of each of the 7 styles making 35 possibilities of unique team game play. Then you could add additional maps to the 35 for additional variations in play by changing the layout but still using the same style and type.

Example Type 4 style G:

1. on Taris, start with a bunch of Rakgouls and as players are defeted they get "cured" and return to help player

2. On Correllia, starts with a couple of Rakgouls and then players are infected when killed, and return as part of the out break.

(That allows for 35 + with and additional two 1v1 and one free for all so you are looking at 38+ pvp map options not including staged rounds.... ... and yes I think you could do all the options with space battles you just have to think of a reason shooting down a ship brings one in on your side for G style)

 

- Staged rounds: instead of capturing the flag 3 times... how about a PVP raid?

Example 1:

Stage 1 Space battle (8), Stage 2 Ship infiltration (5), Stage 3 escape pod to/land on the planet and capture the field (6)

Example 2:

Stage 1 Infiltrate a base (5), Stage 2 hunt your own objectives (1), Stage 3 kill all witnesses (7)

 

Additional Notes Update 1:What about adding a battle ground with crafting ability objects and allowing companions in that one?

 

- one side tech the other ancient ruins

- All players can drive tanks or man turrets, but tanks have to leave the starting area after 5 seconds of having someone inside or they explode, and turrets can not turn to shoot in the base they are at

- Foot paths have no line of site for tanks or turrets

- Enemies inside the base can turn off tank spawn and attack players trying to build Defense in order to prevent repairs

- Tanks spawn in with 10% health

- If companions are in they would do the crew skill actions so players can fight

 

Main skills for main defense and offense tanks

Arms-tech and Artifice can fix turrets

Armor-tech and synth-weave can fix defensive objects like shields and barriers

Cyber-tech can fix tanks

Bio-chem can fix medical droids at key defense locations

 

Gathering skills for areas where your trying to sneak around small paths to avoid tanks and subvert enemy defenses

Scavenging can fix battle droids in "foot path" areas (thanks can't fit and vehicles dismount)

Archeology can fix archaic tomb-raider / Indiana Jones style traps, and open/close stone stone paths

slicing can fix tech traps and open close tech foot paths

Bio-analysis can agitate poison plants in foot paths and key cover spots in open field

 

Mission skills allow you to interact with non-combat NPCs in hard to control open field locations to buy assault support bonuses

Diplomacy NPC sends a native force anti-armor unit to slow/stop tanks in the open battle field

Investigation NPC sends a native force anti-personal unit to investigate and eliminate enemies in foot only path areas.

Treasure hunting NPC sends a "raider" guide to disarm traps in a path to the enemy base

Underworld trading NPC sends a mercenary (mandalorian?) assault squad to jet-pack in and assault base defenses

 

Additional Notes Update 2: Possibly NON-combat PVP ideas (Possibly combat ideas, lol)

 

-PVP racing (stapp, speeder, swoop, podracer,) it would be cool if speeders bounced, drafted, drifted, and boast in general.

 

-starship smuggling / supply runs one side runs the mission the other side runs the counter mission to stop them something other to do with may ships

 

Additional Notes Update 3: Hutball ideas, because I can see its going to keep coming up.

---Suspend ALL special movement abilities on players with the ball to make carriers even and prevent class dominance through short cuts other class can't follow ... it means you have to throw the ball to the ally that jump to the enemy in the in-zone, sprints ahead instead of sprinting or jumping your self.

--- Suspend pull abilities against the player with the ball (for allies and enemies), you can still pull the guy he is about to throw the ball to into the fire or pull up support to the ball carrier you just can't chain pull him across the map or pull him in to the fire. ... stunning him on traps or push pack abilities are still cool.

--- Put a "teleport" from the spawn area to one side of the center so one side can't trap defender and control the ball so much that it be comes and easy lock down game. It would only activate when the shield is down and after the match has started, meaning the initial shield drop it will not work. (Like halos blood gulch with a timer)

--- Make maps for different "Hutt worlds" with different traps, power up placement, and layouts but similar in size and design

--- Maybe make a tournament option available for guild teams. That makes guild names and guild pride more important and known, but it also means if you can't show up for a game any guild member can step in as an alternate if they qualify... what ever the qualifications might be.

 

NON-PVP ideas:

-Make all space mission convert to lvl 50 and replace duplicates at end game

-Crafting for matts when there are two levels for mats per lvl of mats sucks! they should break material missions down more to lower lvl 5 mats and upper lvl 5 mats as well as increase the size of crafting mission lists so I can always put all my companions on the mats I need, allow all companions to craft at once and make missions que-able at least 2 per companion. by not being this way I find myself still grinning for mats but now its worse because some mats only come from missions and I have to pay 2000+ to wait an hour to maybe get a small amount of what I need and I can only send 1 companion because only 1 mission is there for what I need. (there are some work arounds but its annoying) This kinda defeating to point of crew skills as it was original stated.

 

I get game design stuck in may head and obsessed about it all day and it actual keeps me up at night.... sad but true.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Harcagnel
Eddited to expand ideas

[Speno]

Some great ideas in here, alot of them may not a simple thing to do but I really like alot of this.

[Mongir]

Wow yeah there is a lot of thought put into these, would love to see the staged PvP stuff that sounds like a ton of fun. Hopefully some of these get into the game nice work bud!!!!

[Harcagnel]

< entry moved and consolidated to top post > Edited June 10, 2012 by Harcagnel

[Ashivauto]

/signed

Great F@%#%&!g post op! Really well thought out i like all the ideas you said esp... Pvp raids

Would like to add that the Warfront and tatical assault could be in the open world on several different planets...

I love these ideas, hopefully BW reads it

[Samcuu]

I like the post. Well thought out...some great ideas here. I like the pvp with npc involved. Kinda reminds me of swg a bit. Would be smart for bioware to think about some of this stuff while trying to fix world pvp. I had another post where I metioned that there should be a faction point system. With faction points your guild could buy a base, set up this base with turrets and npcs somewhere on a planet and lay claim to that planet. The opposing faction would obviously come and destroy it. Would make for some epic battles imo.

[Ashivauto]

I like the post. Well thought out...some great ideas here. I like the pvp with npc involved. Kinda reminds me of swg a bit. Would be smart for bioware to think about some of this stuff while trying to fix world pvp. I had another post where I metioned that there should be a faction point system. With faction points your guild could buy a base, set up this base with turrets and npcs somewhere on a planet and lay claim to that planet. The opposing faction would obviously come and destroy it. Would make for some epic battles imo.

 

I agree and have also mentioned some of the same things... I used to love getting a message that bestine was being attacked and i needed to come defend and to arrive and a huge battle was going on npc and players, and its was every couple hours....

[Harcagnel]

< entry moved and consolidated to top post > Edited June 10, 2012 by Harcagnel

[Brool]

showdown - no thanks

 

dual - we have this, click on a player, click dual

 

team - have this works fine

 

standoff - we have this, its call pvp warzones, no thanks to generic armor, i put in the time i wont que for something that takes away my time well spent in pvp

 

tactical assault - no thanks

 

warfront - generic armor - no thanks.

 

ffa - not interested

 

dogfight - dont see it doable with current space combat, however a raid that includes sandbox space combat would be awesome.

 

most of the ideas are meh in my personal opinion. it's an automatic no go if I can't use anything that i've spent countless hours grinding for.

 

How bout just new warzones, they are fine as the are just need more maps, and more hutt ball.

[Harcagnel]

@Brool

 

The point is the option to choose some skill over gear maps if you want but they would need to add a filter so you can choose. It kinda sucks to play end game pvp unless you have at lease semi decent gear and there is not a way to get it once you it 50 without being a worthless target. Alot of poeple I know just stopped playing pvp when they hit 50 for that reason. Then they eather quit the game or play another character until 50. This is the reason over half my guild is gone... well and Diablo 3, lol. And if you had bothered to read the second half you would also realize there are lot more than 7 ideas here and we have to maps that are already the same 3 point capture maps where you run capture and hold 2 point. Why duplicate when there are so many different ways to play pvp? you have over simplified my post and disregarded it out of hand because you have good gear and like beating the crap out of people who don't have it yet. i am suggesting changes to bring back more people for you to beat on. But if you don't like challenge or variety I guess that's on you.

 

We currently only have ware zones for :

 

3. Team : team vs team for a common goal what ever gear you bring

Alderaan Civil War: type B

Novare Coast: type B

The Voidstar: type A

Huttball: type E

 

Why are we duplicating already?!?!

at the very least they could be a type G in there too, use Rakghouls and have a cool infection map.

 

I would also point out about the generic armor that games like halo, starwars battle front and stracraft, (while they are different games types I know) start players equal and fight to gain advantage through skill all 3 have long PVP life. The NPCs in the starwars battle front games made it alot more fun to me. As far as MMOs go WOW is the most successful 2004-Pres. and has mulitpule pvp game times:

 

1. Showdown = 1vs1 Arena

3. Team = War song gulch: type D, Arathi Basin: type B, Eye of the Storm: type B and E

5. Tactical assault= Alterac Valley: type A

 

People will immediately post trolls "this is not WOW" and "we don't want to be like WOW", forget about the direct game reference I never said make it like wow I am talking design variation and PVP longevity its hard to talk about without mentioning other MMOs games to prove my point. Maybe some can post the same idea more troll friendly.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Harcagnel

[Brool]

The point is the option to choose some skill over gear maps if you want but they would need to add a filter so you can choose. It kinda sucks to play end game pvp unless you have at lease semi decent gear and there is not a way to get it once you it 50 without being a worthless target. Alot of poeple I know just stopped playing pvp when they hit 50 for that reason. Then they eather quit the game or play another character until 50. This is the reason over half my guild is gone... well and Diablo 3, lol. And if you had bothered to read the second half you would also realize there are lot more than 7 ideas here and we have to maps that are already the same 3 point capture maps where you run capture and hold 2 point. Why duplicate when there are so many different ways to play pvp? you have over simplified my post and disregarded it out of hand because you have good gear and like beating the crap out of people who don't have it yet. i am suggesting changes to bring back more people for you to beat on. But if you don't like challenge or variety I guess that's on you.

 

Oh I read the whole post, I was just not impressed with the ideas. Nothing on you personally. It also has nothing to do with me not liking challenge or variety. I've yet to get a character in full WH augmented gear and I still have a blast in pvp. I had a blast in 50 pvp in recruit gear, now that was truely a challenge.

[Harcagnel]

Oh I read the whole post, I was just not impressed with the ideas. Nothing on you personally. It also has nothing to do with me not liking challenge or variety. I've yet to get a character in full WH augmented gear and I still have a blast in pvp. I had a blast in 50 pvp in recruit gear, now that was truely a challenge.

 

Then can you be more detailed on what you like and don't like because your posts come across as a troll post, "no, no, no bad idea, I need the best armor to smash people!!" with no real explanation or actual constructive thoughts.

Can you add more detail maybe post a War-zone idea of your own to consider improving the game? Or explain why other options might be a bad idea even if you can filter which ones you want to que for.

 

A more specific question for example whats wronge with the idea of adding a (3. team, type G) Rakghoul infection map?

Edited June 10, 2012 by Harcagnel

[Kailaurius]

Very good ideas. I've been thinking of a lot of ideas myself to get some decent PvP in this game, and you have mentioned quite a few of them. This game is seriously lacking in PvP, and I continue to hope that they will add more PvP content. I'm gonna bookmark this post and will continue bumping it until they add some PvP content.

[Harcagnel]

@Kailaurius

 

Thanks! I appreciate all the support for may post and if you have additional ideas feel free to post them or link in similar posts.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Harcagnel

[Daiyukie]

Then can you be more detailed on what you like and don't like because your posts come across as a troll post, "no, no, no bad idea, I need the best armor to smash people!!" with no real explanation or actual constructive thoughts.

Can you add more detail maybe post a War-zone idea of your own to consider improving the game? Or explain why other options might be a bad idea even if you can filter which ones you want to que for.

 

A more specific question for example whats wronge with the idea of adding a (3. team, type G) Rakghoul infection map?

 

You expect too much of people, but I like your optimism =p Also, tons of awesome ideas in here, keep this thread going. I suggest grouping up all the ideas into the main post so new readers can get a full idea of what's being presented rather than read the first few pages entirely.

[Harcagnel]

You expect too much of people, but I like your optimism =p Also, tons of awesome ideas in here, keep this thread going. I suggest grouping up all the ideas into the main post so new readers can get a full idea of what's being presented rather than read the first few pages entirely.

 

lol, ya maybe I do. I consolidated the post as you suggested... may have to pull all out and rewrite it some time but its a lot to work with and I don't feel like it at the moment. For now its just all moved to the top.

[Keiret]

Some good ideas. Might be worth looking at some of the recent discussions about adding more Huttball maps and incorporating it into your list.

[Harcagnel]

I don't mind the idea of more huttball maps or even some sort of tournament/league setup where you play huttball on different world, make teams, and get ranked. I do think this post is more about diversifying pvp and allowing the option to choose which ones you play and I think that should take priority over inflating one type for now. So I think I will leave it as a separate post for now. ... of course I may change my mind later, lol.

 

Edit:

@Keiret

changed my mind... added a hutball section, but I have not had a chance to read the hutball threads yet, so I only have ideas I came up with from post made in this thread. I will try to read them at some point and add other good ideas.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Harcagnel

[csmnstoica]

Kill the enemy leader works really well in WOW (Alterac Valley and Isle of Conquest). Attack and defence happen at the same time and you have to balance them in order to succeed.

And you dont even have to design anything for it in TOR. Just take the whole area of world pvp in Ilum and turn it into a instanced WZ for 16vs16, add an end boss for each faction, add the ability to control 1 or 2 walkers/tanks, call in for air strikes and bam = instant success.

[anstalt]

WAR had some amazing scenarios (warzones) with some funky ideas.

 

Useful-ish link: list of WAR scenarios

 

Personally, I don't think / don't like the idea of balancing gear stats, i.e. forcing people to use generic armour. Whilst it will indeed balance gear between the two sides, it wont address class balance or premade/pug balance and I believe both of those things have a much much higher impact on the outcome of a game than gear.

 

In addition, cross-server rated warzones will hopefully fix balance issues. If i have a rating of 0 and I sign up to a rated warzone, I should be placed against equally skilled people. If gear is indeed a factor, then as you acquire gear you'll progress up the ladder and continue to fight against similar players.

 

I'm also not a fan of the infection / rakghoul idea. The reason being that it takes me away from my character and forces me to play something else. Thats not what i signed up for. I want to play my character and prove that I'm a good player and know my class inside out, not that I know how to play a rakghoul....

 

 

As with all warzones / scenarios, the ruleset is almost negligable. Its the design and layout of the warzone that more often than not determines whether it is fun.

 

An example from Warhammer:

 

Mourkain Temple vs Tor Anroc

 

Both of these maps had a murderball ruleset, i.e. you score points for holding on to the murder ball but the murderball would do you damage over time, eventually reaching a point where it would kill you. Mourkain temple had plenty of rocks/obstacles to use for LoS but it had no environmental traps. Tor Anroc, on the other hand, was a seriers of walkways and islands surrounded by lava. It meant knockbacks could kill people, rather than disrupt them. As a consequence, Mourkain Temple became a very popular scenario whilst many people came to hate Tor Anroc.

 

 

It is the same currently in SW:TOR. The rulesets are fine, and I don't care whether they repeat the same rulesets in future warzones, but its all about the level design that really matters. For example, the Huttball Ruleset is really fantastic and a great idea. However, the level design clearly favours certain classes that have great mobility so as a consequence it is rare to get a balanced Huttball and those people without mobility just get frustrated. The level also doesn't have any balancing mechanics: once one team starts scoring, its very easy for them to just keep a passing string set up for some very quick scores as the defenders respawn away from the middle and naturally defend.

 

Imagine, tho, if they changed Huttball so you spawned from the sides, not the ends. It then becomes natural and easy to control the middle, so if the attackers kill most defenders and score, the result is that the defenders then have more people in the middle and the game goes the other way, keeping it more balanced. In addition, imagine if mobility skills (force speed, leaps etc) were prevented when carrying the ball. This then makes everyone equally good at running the ball, removing most of the class imbalances. Those two small changes would instantly make huttball a more consistantly fun warzone.

[Xezkaiel]

Well thought out post OP =)

 

I personally dig the ideas that bring in NPCs as part of "your army". Such circumstances would really make player characters feel and look like true heroes on the battlefield =D

 

Seriously, imagine a 8v8 or 12v12 or something, and while theyre running around the field, you also have like 50-100 weak/normal skilled NPC enemies/allies. You can be in the middle of an epic clash and suddenly you spot that enemy player and they spot you. You look like the generals in the other teams eyes. I can see some exploiting going on there. Ppl who would only attack you if they saw you in a fight with 2-3 npcs or would lure you around a corner where several npcs were waiting......but then its really the players fault. Eh, overall I like =D

[mahnmut]

I like the mobile defense/VIP idea. A varation could be something similar to the Payload game mode from team fortress 2. It could be modified so you have to escort a walker of some sort through various checkpoints while the other team has to block it by controlling the points or setting up obstacles. Each checkpoint gives the team more time and if they reach the enemies base the walker destroys it. It just be very cool to see an imperial walker or republic equivalent on the battlefield. Edited June 13, 2012 by mahnmut

[Harcagnel]

@anstalt

 

I do like your idea of Rated warzones where you have earn a skill rank that depreciates. Starcraft 2 and Halo both had that and I thought it worked well. But I would also say generic armor as an option would be a good supplement to that. Then roughly equivalently skilled people with same gear makes the matches more about team work then player ability or gear. On the other hand I would like an even gear match only so that poeple can test them selves against higher skilled players on even gear ground. I say this because placing people in skill tiers prevents them from learning from more skilled players to and could get some people stuck in a tier because they only get to see people making the same mistakes as them. I do think skill rank should be a filter option and the filter is most important option PVP does not currently have Then introducing infection maps, or standardised gear maps, maps with NPCs or ranked skill maps are options you can play if you want and players who don't want to ... don't have to play that way.

 

You do bring up a good point about a central spawn point in hutt ball but I would also point out that if they get the ball away from then middle your defense would always be running to catch them so the battle would become a king of the hill and players would learn not to follow out off the middle are because it is pritty much over when they do, this would make huttball mostly a big death match in the middle. If I may suggest an improvement to that design, put a "transporter" at the current spawn point to the middle right side from your base that activates when the shield is down at the spawn point. Then players can choose and you get your work around and the option to jump to the middle so one side dominating the other is harder. That is what they did in blood gulch halo and without vehicles on the map it is very effective.

 

As far as special abilities in hutball, i like the idea of making it so that you can't sprint or jump to players while you have the ball, even more I would say players can't pull the ball carrier friend or foe.

[Harcagnel]

Added a huttball and filter section to the main post.

[Kailaurius]

Bump.

 

And will keep bumping til they add more PvP content to this game.