teradek Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Good luck getting groups on your server once your name is known as a "companion needer". Same thing happens on Vulkar, people are vocalizing when people ninja loot or companion loot at the space station. So good luck getting into groups once you are labeled, isnt it great to be apart of a community....you have to behave or you get labeled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarbonzotheDude Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I really don't see what the problem is. I have used my companion in a couple group quests and two flashpoint missions because we were shorthanded and he did just fine with gear won from quest rewards. So frankly this whole inclination to roll need on items in groups to make sure your companion is geared sounds like a bunch of bs to me. I haven't and my companion seems to do just fine. What I would love is to never have to freaking use him in groups. I mean it has worked but it is a severe pita compared to having another player -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waiting Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Only time I need for companions is if there's no one in the group that can use the gear. With as many three and two man groups that I run, that actually happens a lot. Haven't pissed anyone off yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 This is not WoW. Rolling greed on items ruins the comunity. Press NEED on everything since you have companions that needs everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apax Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) My favorite line so far in this thread. BTW, needing for companions without asking is just a bad idea. Let the group know and everything will be fine. Assume people can read your mind, and you'll get a few words tossed at you for sure. Assuming companions are present in the group and actively participating, I think that's unnecessary. If you want, you can inform the group that you plan on not rolling on gear for your companion, although that's kind of unnecessary as well, and perhaps not a good idea. DPS Bob: Just want you all to know, T7 will be tanking for our group today but I totally plan on NOT rolling on any upgrades for him. Haven't done so in the last 10 levels, so let's just hope the little guy can still take a punch! Healer Jane: Uh.. the heck you aren't.. Pretty much how that conversation would go. Edited January 12, 2012 by Apax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democratus Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Players > companions. Players never get anything. Players are people in the real world. The items are imaginary, the character is imaginary, and the companions are imaginary. Edited January 12, 2012 by Democratus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guided_by_voices Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 We just need a companion need button tbh. id rather not to be honest. the jerks, and greedy people need be ostracized from the game and hopefully from MMO's altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towkin Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 there is something wrong with it if a player in the group can directly use it on their character. Character need -> companion need -> greed -> pass 100%^^^^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apax Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) 100%^^^^^^^^^ It's not that simple. Edited January 12, 2012 by Apax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzoV Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Players never get anything. Players are people in the real world. The items are imaginary, the character is imaginary, and the companions are imaginary. This is true. So, it would be fair, human player to human player, to explain "hey, I'm gonna roll need on everything my character or companions can use." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leihn Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think this situation breaks down in a few ways: 1. "Loot system allows me to need, therefore it's Bioware's intention that I be able to need" I think design oversights in this game are quite plentiful (Scoundrel Flashbang is 30s longer cd than Operative Flashbang for no reason, horrible GTN interface, etc) so it's not too hard to believe that Bioware opting for a clean and simple loot system merely expected the players to police themselves, rather than needing someone to come in and big brother everything. I'd guess that if the problem became persistent enough then they could always retroactively instill more rigid guidelines, but that doesn't mean they're outright endorsing one method or the other. 2. "My companion is a part of my character, therefore it has the same entitlement to gear" This is both true and false respectively. One's companion is a component of one's character that is probably used in anywhere from 30-70% of the gameplay depending on how you choose to play and what you choose to do. However, an individual companion is only 1/5th of your total companions available and while I do understand that not everyone opts to use every single companion, even your most used companion is at best probably used the aforementioned 30-70% of your character. Compare that to someone else's character which is used 100% of the time and you can see the disparity of use. 3. "Loot rules are flexible as long as you define them upfront." I kind of agree with this, I think people won't care what you do if you tell them you're going to do it, that way they can opt to not group with you if they don't want to. If more people on a given server feel the way you feel than you won't have a problem finding groups willing to agree to these rules. If fewer people feel this way then you may need to evaluate whether or not your actions fall into the socially agreed upon norms, at which point you may need to consider that maybe you aren't doing what's "right." anymore. If you refuse to define rules because you fear reprisal for them then you are looking to take advantage of a situation by intentionally misleading people into assuming the social norm is in place. It's a bad mannered move and could lead to obviously negative response. 4. "1 need, 1 greed, 1 off roll" I haven't heard this one in a long time, and it was always more of a loot distribution method when there was ample loot that multiple people could use, i.e., bring three Rogues to a raid that ends up dropping 6 pieces of rogue loot, the system makes sure that each rogue gets something before someone gets a second piece to avoid one person walking away with 6 pieces and the other two with nothing. When applied to SWTOR, I do understand that there is a frustration to not winning anything in a flashpoint, i.e I ran Boarding Party HM on my Operative and not a single piece of gear with Cunning dropped, but you do have to consider that this happens to everyone, that Bounty Hunter that tanked for the group probably had runs where nothing with Aim dropped and for me to take the gear from him to equip my Companion just because I should "deserve something this run" is a somewhat self-centered attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towkin Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It's not that simple. Oh it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overfloater Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Put 3 buttons on the roll window. Instead of just Need/Greed, you have: NeedCompanionGreed Prioritized in that order. Doesn't solve the problem of people being dishonest; no system ever will. But it would offer an in-game mechanic for a potential source of clashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarbonzotheDude Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 id rather not to be honest. the jerks, and greedy people need be ostracized from the game and hopefully from MMO's altogether. Why? Why not put something in place where it can theoretically solve this issue or at least ensure their warped justification goes out the window altogether and put the argument to rest? Love 'em or hate 'em the more subs the game has the more BW will do for the game as a whole. I say put the mechanics in place so there aren't anymore cause for this discussions at all rather than constantly having to bicker about it or hope those that don't agree simply go away. I'm a bit amazed that BW never came up with something better before this game even launched. This very subject has only been talked and argued to death on these forums for *********** years now and this is the best they could do? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSamourai Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 If your companion is used by the group than it has equal right to the gear. If it is not then it isn't helping the group, and therefore is not for the group to improve. It's similar to rolling for dual-specs in other games. If you're not using that spec to help the group the group shouldn't be responsible to gear you for it. Of course, not everyone will agree. That is what seems most courteous to the group though. Only expect from the group what you put into it. I agree here. If you're using the companion actively in the group, then yes, I think you should get a roll for it. Otherwise, if no one else wants something, ask first, and then roll for your companion. Straightup rolling for your companion and ninjaing something from an actual HUMAN player is a beyond **** move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExBrillig Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) It's not that simple. It is, indeed, that simple. Does anyone disagree that a companion is less effective than an average player? Because of that, the same amount of improvement in stats does more for a player than it does for a companion. Therefore, in terms of net effectiveness, it's better for a player character to be upgraded than a companion. Since the whole premise of Need/Greed is that the entity that gets the most utility out of something should get it, player characters deserve higher priority than companions. There's also a practical argument to be made - each player character has 5 companions. This means that at an abstract level, saying that companions should get need rolls means that it will take 6 times as long, on average, for a player character to gain gear than otherwise. That's a pretty dumb way of creating grind for yourself. Edited January 12, 2012 by ExBrillig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 In any group encounter, loot rules and constraints should be agreed to by the group in advance of kiling the first mob. There is no blanket rule for or against rolling for comanion loot as far as I am concerned. It's up to the group to decide together inadvance, and then all group members follow their agreement (or leave the group). The above applies to non-endgame non-raid group content. For end game raid content, I don't see why you would ever roll for a companion on loot since 1) you are no longer leveling, you are at level cap, and 2) your companion will never participate in a raid so they don't need raid level loot. /2cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setanian Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just roll 'need' you helped get it, you are entitled to win it. Why is someone else regardless of class entitled to it? Just because you are healer does not automatically entitle you to every healer item. The truth is, people join groups to help themselves, advance their levels or get a quest done. They are rarely there to help you. WoW brought in this my class my need item thing. Well before that, people won items, and if you needed it, you bought it from them at an agreed price. You are entitled to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syas Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Character need -> Companion need -> Greed -> Pass This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laparkuh Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I have 4 companions and 3 alt's (plus all their companions)...I can need for all of them in a flashpoint according to a few posters here...because I helped with the kill and those companions/alts are "directly related to me"...right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicDP Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 ********, if I NEED something to wear and some dude needs something for his companion he never uses then screw that, i'm kicking him out of the group asap or leaving myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) There's also a practical argument to be made - each player character has 5 companions. This means that at an abstract level, saying that companions should get need rolls means that it will take 6 times as long, on average, for a player character to gain gear than otherwise. That's a pretty dumb way of creating grind for yourself. I believe an interesting phenomena will develop in end game longer term and it will be interesting to see what trend develops. Guilds will progress through raid content and put it on farm status (at least unless there is a paradigm shift from prior MMOs), right? After a while every player has all the gear they need. Now loot that is not needed begins to drop during the farm sessions. So, will guilds give priority to crafters to get the drop to RE it, or will they let players begin rolling for companions? It will be interesting to see what the large raiding guilds decide to do. Edited January 12, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimoto Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Companions are a part of you , you should roll for gears for them All of them? That means I can roll need on practically everything. Yay for your suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Human beings > pixelsNone of the human beings can wear the gear that drops. I can put those pixels on various parts of my character, including the parts of my character that you label as "a companion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManOSteal Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 man they just need to put in a third button to the rolling screen so there is need greed and companion need that way character need can go over companion need but companion need can go over greed and the disassemble option can come up when it needs to or can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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