Jedi Shadow Bursting Guide

[The_Starks]

Theres been a lot of discussion about the armor pen talent. It supports sustained DPS more than burst damage. Since it has no affect on Force Breach (at least in shadow tech), SS ignored 50% with FW, and DS/CS is our most frequently used attack, some argue that the two points in Applied Force provide a bigger benefit than the three required in Tech Mastery.

 

Hmm. This makes sense. I think I shall re-spec. Thanks.

[Paganini]

low slash and then project so the delay occurs when your target is CC'd and you can get 2 abilities to hit at the same time

 

also, applied force is trash compared to double bladed saber defense

Edited January 12, 2012 by Paganini

[Powerr]

low slash and then project so the delay occurs when your target is CC'd and you can get 2 abilities to hit at the same time

 

also, applied force is trash compared to double bladed saber defense

 

regardless I wouldnt even spare 2 points from infiltration for kinetic

[Karyia]

low slash and then project so the delay occurs when your target is CC'd and you can get 2 abilities to hit at the same time

 

also, applied force is trash compared to double bladed saber defense

 

Explain why it is trash compared to DBSD? Its not for the regen as Profundity is far superior (75% ish chance for Shadow Tech to fire on DS/CS alone) and the base chance to regen force with DBSD as an Inf Shadow is 15% in Shadow Tech. Combat Tech pushes it to 35%, but if your in Combat Tech Profundity doesn't apply. For Kinetic Shadows, they can eaisly push this to over 50% thus equaling the FPS regen of Profundity. 75% to regen 1 FPS or 35% chance to regen 2 FPS from frontal attacks?

 

And its not for the +defense as only Kinetic, Energy, and base Melee attacks can be mitigated by it. A non-Kinetic spec Shadow gains very little benefit from this talent overall. If you running an Inf Spec Shadow in PvP in Combat Tech the talent points in Profundity and Exit Strategy are wasted, Force Breach becomes an AoE debuff/annoyance, and an overall 5% reduction in damage due to Tech.

 

Applied Force is by far superior to DBSD as an Inf Shadow.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Karyia

[Paganini]

Explain why it is trash compared to DBSD? Its not for the regen as Profundity is far superior (75% ish chance for Shadow Tech to fire on DS/CS alone) and the base chance to regen force with DBSD as an Inf Shadow is 15% in Shadow Tech. Combat Tech pushes it to 35%, but if your in Combat Tech Profundity doesn't apply. For Kinetic Shadows, they can eaisly push this to over 50% thus equaling the FPS regen of Profundity. 75% to regen 1 FPS or 35% chance to regen 2 FPS from frontal attacks?

 

And its not for the +defense as only Kinetic, Energy, and base Melee attacks can be mitigated by it. A non-Kinetic spec Shadow gains very little benefit from this talent overall. If you running an Inf Spec Shadow in PvP in Combat Tech the talent points in Profundity and Exit Strategy are wasted, Force Breach becomes an AoE debuff/annoyance, and an overall 5% reduction in damage due to Tech.

 

Applied Force is by far superior to DBSD as an Inf Shadow.

 

Just because profundity is a great talent doesn't mean that you can't get profundity and DBSD, your whole comments about profundity have zero relevance to the comparison of DBSD vs AF. And I love how you just dismiss the +4% defense. Shadows have to get +10% accuracy to prevent misses of key abilities such as low slash against Sorcerors who have a base 10% defense, but I seriously doubt any class is gonna be running around with over +10% accuracy as you'd just have to sacrifice too much. This means you have a 4% chance to completely mitigate a melee or ranged attack in addition to increased force regeneration. Please note how in PvP a 4% chance to avoid an attack is far superior to 4% damage reduction.

 

Applied force is +6% dmg on an attack that is primarily used to generate procs for our abilities that do the real damage. Obviously this game has no combat logs but in PvP I'd guess that CS accounts for at most a third of our damage, and that's all sustained. It's not even increasing our burst damage which is our primary role.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Paganini

[scoobyrex]

nice guide thanks

[Powerr]

nice guide thanks

 

no prob

[SoupyNuggs]

Just because profundity is a great talent doesn't mean that you can't get profundity and DBSD, your whole comments about profundity have zero relevance to the comparison of DBSD vs AF. And I love how you just dismiss the +4% defense. Shadows have to get +10% accuracy to prevent misses of key abilities such as low slash against Sorcerors who have a base 10% defense, but I seriously doubt any class is gonna be running around with over +10% accuracy as you'd just have to sacrifice too much. This means you have a 4% chance to completely mitigate a melee or ranged attack in addition to increased force regeneration. Please note how in PvP a 4% chance to avoid an attack is far superior to 4% damage reduction.

 

Applied force is +6% dmg on an attack that is primarily used to generate procs for our abilities that do the real damage. Obviously this game has no combat logs but in PvP I'd guess that CS accounts for at most a third of our damage, and that's all sustained. It's not even increasing our burst damage which is our primary role.

 

This 100%. the 4% def bonus alone justifies taking DBSD over applied force, the force regen mechanic is just icing on the cake.

[Karyia]

Just because profundity is a great talent doesn't mean that you can't get profundity and DBSD, your whole comments about profundity have zero relevance to the comparison of DBSD vs AF. And I love how you just dismiss the +4% defense. Shadows have to get +10% accuracy to prevent misses of key abilities such as low slash against Sorcerors who have a base 10% defense, but I seriously doubt any class is gonna be running around with over +10% accuracy as you'd just have to sacrifice too much. This means you have a 4% chance to completely mitigate a melee or ranged attack in addition to increased force regeneration. Please note how in PvP a 4% chance to avoid an attack is far superior to 4% damage reduction.

 

Applied force is +6% dmg on an attack that is primarily used to generate procs for our abilities that do the real damage. Obviously this game has no combat logs but in PvP I'd guess that CS accounts for at most a third of our damage, and that's all sustained. It's not even increasing our burst damage which is our primary role.

 

None of the tier 1 talents in Kinetic increase burst so that point is moot, but I do see your point in the 4% gain to defense. I misunderstood the defense stat as I thought it was a mitigation stat, not an avoidance stat. TOR does not have any mitigation stat other than Armor, which I was unaware of at the time.

[Powerr]

a buddy just tested Applied Force and it seems to add 200-400 damage per clairvoyant strike. A noticeable difference but a raid spec imo

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601MZGMRRkhMrtzZf0c.1

[RockysRevenge]

So...for an "overall" good PvP and raid spec, the 2/31/8 spec would probably be the better choice then.

 

Here's a question: Why not just put 1 point into Misdirection and put 2 points into Security Breach and Applied Force? Or a combination of those. Is the extra stealth level really that necessary?

[Powerr]

So...for an "overall" good PvP and raid spec, the 2/31/8 spec would probably be the better choice then.

 

Here's a question: Why not just put 1 point into Misdirection and put 2 points into Security Breach and Applied Force? Or a combination of those. Is the extra stealth level really that necessary?

 

stealth means a lot to me in pvp. I don't like ever getting popped first, and i like running fast in stealth

[shiNee]

awesome guide man... thinking i might respec from tank tree haha

[Holy_Cheater]

I tried upheaval skill yesterday. It's awesome and is a must-have, unless you're a backstab spammer. It's cool when you shoot project, get second project and then force-breach your target instantly after that. And if it's all critting, you deal a very massive burst.

 

I'm not even concerned anymore about project making delayed damage comparing to inquisitor's shock.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Holy_Cheater

[Rehwyn]

I'm not even concerned anymore about project making delayed damage comparing to inquisitor's shock.

 

Honestly, there's something to say for all the damage hitting in one big burst instead of two. Personally, I think Project is kinda nice in that fashion, but the time difference unfortunately can sometimes allow a life-saving heal to land or cap to finish etc when used out of a burst rotation.

 

Thanks for the video and notes. I've been playing KC tank a lot with some friends, but I've been looking into Inf a bit more recently. I seem to take a lot more damage now that people have geared up, but don't put out quite a compensatory amount (and yes, I realize my role in a group setting is completely different as a tank spec).

 

How important is Biochem to playing something like this well? I've gotten 400 Synthweaving (and done nothing with it...) and am a little hesitant to drop it for Biochem, despite how much more useful it seems. I just know the second I switch, BW will nerf it or make other crafts useful.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Rehwyn

[Jeckll]

I just know the second I switch, BW will nerf it or make other crafts useful.

If that's true, I beg you - please switch )

 

As for your question, BioChem ist amazing. My GF rolled BioChem on her Sentinel while I stick with Cybertech. She got the better end of the deal, believe me .)

[FuriCuri]

I was thinking about dropping Exit Strategy for Kinetic Field (smth like that) because I think ES brings less dmg boost to the pvp table than KF brings survivability. What do you think guys?

[Jeckll]

I think it's almost always possible to avoid AOE effects in pvp so reducing the damage of stuff I'm trying to avoid is like saying: "If I play poorly, this is Plan B..." I'd like to try playing good enough so Plan A works.

 

Btw, how do you deal with kiting with no points in Subduing Techniques? I would imagine that's quite difficult.

[FuriCuri]

I think it's almost always possible to avoid AOE effects in pvp so reducing the damage of stuff I'm trying to avoid is like saying: "If I play poorly, this is Plan B..." I'd like to try playing good enough so Plan A works.

 

Btw, how do you deal with kiting with no points in Subduing Techniques? I would imagine that's quite difficult.

 

Well, I play in team and it's often my role to take out healer or some dps and there are common situations that enemies cast aoe on that spot - so I either take lot of damage and kill my target (and probably die after that) or I just forget about my target and run away. Needing to kill someone in the middle of heavy fight with lots of aoe flying around is a very typical situation (remember voidstar for example). And IMO -30% dmg is quite a lot. At least in my eyes it brings more than Exist Strategy which you can't maximize in pvp. But I could be wrong about ES so I'm asking other shadows how they finding it.

 

About kiting - I never had such problems because I rely on properly managing stun lock and resolve bar and default Force Slow is enough for me. If target still alive after stun lock burst and default Force Slow duration kiting it's often more wise to get away cause you probably have been kited into the enemy backlines already.

Edited January 13, 2012 by FuriCuri

[Jeckll]

Interesting. I'm playing in a premade as well and obviously, we have the same goals.

I see your points and think they are valid for your approach to your "duty" to kill single targets.

 

I usually migrate the damage of AoE with Resilience and/or CC multiple targets.

With the default Focus Target frame, it's quite easy to interrupt the aoe-caster and switching back to your main target asap. You might say you need all interrupts for the healer you're trying to kill but I'm not alone on the battlefield. My Assist-Sentinel can interupt a crucial heal as well.

 

In general, the Sage healer I'm playing with feels like the AOE spamming can be healed way easier than the single target bursting so walking 2-3s through an AOE effect is not that bad so far.

 

I find Force slow quite handy when disabling multiple targets (after voidstar door opens) and at 2on1s, where I can keep 1 enemy away (knockback, force slow) while killing the other.

[FuriCuri]

Fair enough. So, aside from Force Slow - do you find Exit Strategy is mostly PvE talent since it can be fully effective only in PvE situation?

[Jeckll]

I think it's more a bonus, as I don't think I ever saw 5 stacks of it in pvp. But 2-3 stacks are already a nice boost to an ability I use on cooldown, deals internal damage and is a vital part of the standard burst-down combo.

 

And consider the synergy with deep impact as well.

I'd prefer having it, but I'd be curious if there are more opinions on that.

[Swijr]

I just dropped 2 skills last night (170 range) on my 22 shadow and it hurt... I can't imagine doing it at 400 (like my trooper is at).

 

Everything I've read makes biochem completely OP. End game PVP essential.

 

 

 

Swijr

[Jota]

Thanks for the amazing insight you gave me on this class. After practicing a bit on side quests, I've tried some of your rotations on couple pvp and was amazed to see how fast I could put someone down. Really a great guide for quick burst !

[Typhoidfever]

Thank you so much for explaining your rotation and posting videos, I am currently level 30 and while I am not having much trouble leveling or pvp'ing its reassuring I suppose to know that I don't even have the majority of my core abilities yet. Its also nice to know biochem won't go to waste