Yeah it's Operatives

[Kutalion]

Dunno why all the fuss with operatives. They can dish out great dmg to undergeared people.

 

Me and a friend, both full champion geared scoundrels tried killing a hybrid merc in battlemaster gear.

 

Boy were we wrong. Took us about 40 secs with the help of a fully geared shadow.

 

 

Alone I can take about 40% of HP of a merc(commando) before i run out of skills to use and CCed to oblivion.

 

 

Lets not even go into the fact that our opener is bugged and gets you full imunity bar. So you trinket out of our opener, knockback/stun/slow and just walk away without a scratch apart from initial dmg from the opener.

[Samsky]

Something i posted before, a shot demonstation how "OP" OPs are. A simple duel OP vs Sorc where first one is in stealth already.

 

Operative opens on Sorc (i assume both are equally geared). They always have bubble up, so damage is mitigated. Now lets say he got lucky, and crited. What happens is Sorc lost around 2-3k of hp (if Operative used consumable, if not, then less) and both are stunned for 3 sec (stun from talent every sorc shoudl take). Difference is, Sorc resolve bar is filled white and Operative has 1/3 filled. Lets say both had 2min cd, so they break from stun. Sorc can insantly use knockback with root, making Operatie loose anoher 5 seconds. Durint that time Sorc can heal himself and still cast a nuke. As soon as Operative can move (still at 1/3 resolve), sorc can stun him (4 bar silver resolve) again and nuke the hell out of him. When OP finally breaks this one, Sorc uses force speed (remember, no gap closer), and hit some more. Then finally use last stun (the one that breaks on damage) filling OP resolve bar, again heal himself, bubble up and proceed to finish off Operative. After all this Sorc can have full HP with not much problem.

 

 

So please stop complaining, when the problem is that you need to L2P. I made sorc as well and it is much better than Operative, in almost every way (Besides burst dmg obviosuly. And that burst is easily dealt with as shown above).

 

Yeah, coz the game only has sorcs in it.

 

BTW, when does your imaginary OP use combat stealth and waits out the sorc resolve bar and knocks him down again? DOTs you say...yeah, pretty much never work if OP knows his business.

 

And for some reason I can't root OPs with their shield up, but your sorc can...gg.

[nite_shade]

So it begins..... The nerf hurders have started to come out of the wood work.. seems another great game is going to get ruined by kids calling for nerfing.....

 

I've played most classes, whilst I get a feel for what suits me... I don't do a great deal of PvP, as I feel that PvE is the biggest part of the game in my opinion and that's where most classes Mechanics are geared towards...

 

PvP is something I do when I feel like it... and when I do I learn to combat/defend etc.. for each class I meet... afterall, we can't have it all our own way... Lets not cry when we die, just learn to play, or go PvEing

 

I remember when blizz, listened to the kids and broke Shamman for PvP, but not only that is fooked em up in the PvE world too......

 

One thing I did notice, was that I died a lot... but hey, the toon I played was like 11 and I died instantly (many times), when I realised I was in hutt Ball with lvl 50 players...

 

So I say BW be very careful when listening to Nerf hurders.... please!! LEts not go down the SWG route.... or WoW route!!

[nite_shade]

Dunno why all the fuss with operatives. They can dish out great dmg to undergeared people.

 

Me and a friend, both full champion geared scoundrels tried killing a hybrid merc in battlemaster gear.

 

Boy were we wrong. Took us about 40 secs with the help of a fully geared shadow.

 

 

Alone I can take about 40% of HP of a merc(commando) before i run out of skills to use and CCed to oblivion.

 

 

Lets not even go into the fact that our opener is bugged and gets you full imunity bar. So you trinket out of our opener, knockback/stun/slow and just walk away without a scratch apart from initial dmg from the opener.

 

Well put!

[Aedn]

until bioware fixes all the animation issues, how damage is calculated on the front end or backend of animations, the failures in the resolve system which allow it to be ignored by any intelligent player, there is not really a point in trying to nerf classes.

 

That said, its pretty stupid to have a class with a stun component that can frontload 50% of a persons health before they can react, especially when you couple it in with the resolve system. good players playing this class do not need 3 minutes of cooldown to clean up opposing players, even in groups. Its just a matter of forcing the target to use its consumables and cooldowns, at which point they become defenseless for the 2nd round of attacks due to being unable to trinket out of the cc.

 

As stated, dots are really the only defense, and unless a player can constantly apply them, its going to be difficult to counter the operative, with the exception of a minimum of classes.

[Haqim]

Yeah, coz the game only has sorcs in it.

 

BTW, when does your imaginary OP use combat stealth and waits out the sorc resolve bar and knocks him down again? DOTs you say...yeah, pretty much never work if OP knows his business.

 

And for some reason I can't root OPs with their shield up, but your sorc can...gg.

 

I used sorc just as an example, because i play sorc as well. Sorry, i don't know every other class skills and talents, but i'm sure they are not so defensless as people describe.

 

Then, obviosuly you have no idea what you are talking about. What happens if OP use combat stealth and waits out sorc resolve bar? Nothing, they start over again. Both full HP, OP ready to jump sorc and sorc with bubble. But OP just used consumable if he had, so no more dmg boost and he has his only escape ability on cd.

 

DOTs don't work? What do you mean, they don't deal dmg for you? 0_o. He can cancel them once, but it is ALWAYS ued together with combat stealth, if OP knows his business.

 

No idea why you cannot root him either, maybe because you didn't use proper talents? My OP gets chain-rooted most of the time.

[Madgecko]

Its fine, get expertise, react faster, kill the squishiest class in the game

 

Squishiest class in game? Nice try. But, no.

[Migrayn]

Sorcs seem fine. Commandos seem fine. I mean they both have the ability to kill me but it's not quite instant. The Ops killing is instant. Yeah we can still gang kill the Operative, but he kills like 3 out of 5 before we do.

 

says the sorc..

 

 

 

Yeah that's a lot of good proof their. It must be true since you said it.

 

I have never seen a scoundrel or operative kill 3 out of 5 people before being killed.

 

Once out of stealth they struggle to kill 1 if others are fighting them. They have one way to kill a target. That is high damage burst from stealth. It is easy to see through stealth. If you simply look around you will spot them before they can land the move most times.

 

Its not like they can nuke you from 30m away and hide in their bubble that seems to always be up. Its not like they can fire off missles from 30m away and laugh as everything dies from the carnage.

 

The whole problem is expertise. Don't be sad that someone beat you. Too many people cry when they don't win. Guess what their is always someone better at pvp then you. This is always that random number generator that will hit you harder then the other guy at times.

 

Get used to it.

[Migrayn]

until bioware fixes all the animation issues, how damage is calculated on the front end or backend of animations, the failures in the resolve system which allow it to be ignored by any intelligent player, there is not really a point in trying to nerf classes.

 

That said, its pretty stupid to have a class with a stun component that can frontload 50% of a persons health before they can react, especially when you couple it in with the resolve system. good players playing this class do not need 3 minutes of cooldown to clean up opposing players, even in groups. Its just a matter of forcing the target to use its consumables and cooldowns, at which point they become defenseless for the 2nd round of attacks due to being unable to trinket out of the cc.

 

As stated, dots are really the only defense, and unless a player can constantly apply them, its going to be difficult to counter the operative, with the exception of a minimum of classes.

 

The thing is every class gets a 4s stun. I get stunned by lightning and nuked to below half all the time if my CC break is not up. Ohh and guess what when it is up I pop the CC break, and bam I'm stunned again. For some reason the lightning stuns do not put you at full resolve. So they can stun you again.

 

The scoundrel stun always puts me at full resolve so if I break it they can't stun again. They usually run off.

[arknath]

I have no problems whatsoever fighting Operatives. I have fought several operatives geared to the teeth. All they do is one quick burst and then it is over for their part. Sure they take my hp down to like 50% but then I can easily control the battle from there of. Pop relics, defensive cooldowns, a pvp med pack if needed, and just laugh at them since their dps is HORRIBLE after the 3 first hits. I don't get why people cry about this class.

 

A properly geared marauder/sentinel is by faaaaar more dangerous imo.

[AgitoNii]

...Because fully pvp geared tank Jedi Guardian dying in 3/4 seconds is perfectly balanced.

[Guest Execs]

Shhhhh

 

I just rolled an OP.

 

I got bored of all this too, the solution when a bioware dev stated in another post "we wont nerf classes because it will only cause another class being op then another"

 

is to roll one, mines currently lvl 14 and im already killing 45's in warzones with shiv / back stab and my 2 stuns.

 

 

If you want the class dealt with roll one, when the statistics finally show that operatives are dominating warzones they'll "maybe" change it.

[Felyndiira]

Your Tank dies because of nearly no damage mitigration. Try read here

[Daeth]

Pretty sure Medium Armor > Light Armor....

 

Put two points in getting 30% more armor or use dark charge.... profit!

 

Ops are fine. In a one on one fight I have never lost to one as a BH tank, BH merc or Sorceror. Use your breaker, then demolish them. They go down faster than any other class.

 

BH Mercs are pretty much the only class that doesnt have a weakness at the moment. And dont come up with the 'they get screwed with LOS and interrupts' bullcrap. So do sorcerors, snipers and every other ranged DPS. The bottom line is that they put out way more DPS than any other ranged DPS with sustained damage, not burst. And their survivability is way to high wearing heavy and getting a further 10% perma reduction by spamming tracer missile... then getting another temp bubble with 25% reduction.

 

Make them glass cannons like operatives, sorcerors and snipers.

[DarkeGBF]

Sorcs seem fine. Commandos seem fine. I mean they both have the ability to kill me but it's not quite instant. The Ops killing is instant. Yeah we can still gang kill the Operative, but he kills like 3 out of 5 before we do.

 

Maybe you're a terrible player.

[Efir]

The only dramas Ive had fighting these is when they de-cloak on you and blat you for a ton of damage; and then i have only died is i am already fighting someone else. As Ive climbed up the tree (currently level 40 vanguard shield spec) Ive got more cc and interrupts to mess up thier keyboard / muscle memory cycle.

 

Its the knock down that is the killer, by the time you have got back up, back stab and shiv cooldowns are a good way to completing.

[flooble]

If he was too slow to hit his vanish before you DoT'ed him again during evasion, he was probably bad. Which was my point.

 

Or their cooldowns were simply not available. Just like very single person an operative ever jumps is.....

 

You know the ones: "omg I shouldnt need cooldowns to survive being jumped"

Edited January 12, 2012 by flooble

[Floored]

Terrible operative then, my scoundrel has an ability to remove all harmful effects + a vanish, so I'm pretty sure operatives have the same thing.

 

They remove tech DoTs. Not DoTs from Sorcs/Sages.

 

Trust me, I've spammed it when fighting a sorc and it removes nothing that they have.

 

Ops/Scoundrels are good if they get the jump, but if you catch one out of stealth, it's a completely different story. Stop acting like every Op/scoundrel can crit for 6k +. I'm in half champ gear with a couple cent pieces and have never crit over 4800 (with HS and yes I pop my relic), and have never crit for over 3500 outside of opener.

 

Not to mention with everybody and their brother spamming AoEs/AoE knockbacks, it's not that easy to stay in stealth as long as you hoped.

[Floored]

Shhhhh

 

I just rolled an OP.

 

I got bored of all this too, the solution when a bioware dev stated in another post "we wont nerf classes because it will only cause another class being op then another"

 

is to roll one, mines currently lvl 14 and im already killing 45's in warzones with shiv / back stab and my 2 stuns.

 

 

If you want the class dealt with roll one, when the statistics finally show that operatives are dominating warzones they'll "maybe" change it.

 

You don't have 2 stuns at 14....

 

Right now, everyone's too busy derping it up as Sorc.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Floored

[Psyka]

People keep screaming Operatives are OP but I just don't see it. Having an operative alt with no real arterial motive I know that they are pretty much garbage outside of stealth, and in pvp it is a royal ***** to get out of combat once you're in it. So yeah they might burst you down for a good portion of your health from stealth, but then they're mincemeat since they're a melee class.

 

The only reason people think they're epic is because they're melee. A sniper can open up with about the same damage using Ambush+ Explosive probe and instant cast Snipe, then stun, and finish you off. The difference is, without combat logs, you don't see it. You just know you died. You don't see somebody in your face or force lightning everywhere so you don't know it.

 

A future prediction that will no doubt come true: once lvl 50's get their own bracket, nobody will complain about how OP operatives are. Because when any operative hits my fully geared bodyguard merc it's an absolute joke. They take me down to MAYBE 50% after the rotation, then I just knock them back and heal it off in a couple seconds. It's really the low levels getting decimated by fully geared ops that is diluting this.

[Drengir]

Shadows and assassins are no where near as squishy as operatives what kind of drugs are you on

 

Gonna vote this dude is a Operative/scoundrel

[BDutch]

They remove tech DoTs. Not DoTs from Sorcs/Sages.

 

Trust me, I've spammed it when fighting a sorc and it removes nothing that they have.

 

Evasion (with avoidance training) will cleanse force dots, I've already tested that in a controlled environment. You can pop evasion before vanish.. you can pop it after vanish.. you can pop it a the same time as vanish.

 

The stealth classes get different evasions for different damage types, but that will only affect whether or not you can pull them out of stealth with an AoE afterwards.

 

So if you unstealth a stealther after they have tried to escape they either messed up somehow, or you happen to have used just the right damage type cone/aoe at just the right time. It's definitely not a common occurrence or even possibility for most classes.

Edited January 12, 2012 by BDutch

[flooble]

Gonna vote this dude is a Operative/scoundrel

 

Technically has a point, just forgot to mention tank spec and gear required. I don't see scoundrel/op tanking raid bosses

[Gunlaugr]

I play a scoundrel scrapper.

 

In my experience, my class is too dependant on the opener ''Shoot first'' in order to do my job (quickly kill somebody who has already taken damage or is quite occupied with something/someone else).

 

I would like a shift of damage from Shoot first to my other three abilities ''Back blast'', ''Blaster whip'' and ''Sucker punch''.

 

If I do not get a crit on ''Shoot first'' from stealth, then I have *very* limited chances of killing equally geared AND decent(skilled) BH merc's, sorcerers who have their bubble ready/do good at kiting and marauders/juggernauts. I simply need that crit to keep the momentum and pressure going. My sustained damage when out of stealth is quite subpar compared to a marauder/BH merc/sith assassin/sorc. And no, I am not saying I consider operative/scoundrel to be underpowered, I just want a shift of damage from opener to main abilities, to make it less random.

 

Now before you tell me I must suck terribly, because If only I look at the videos of the uberdps operatives on youtube I would realise I should wtfpwn all, I would like to make a point;

 

Most of the people in those videos are NOT equally geared and decent at their class. They react slowly, they do not foresee the incoming burst and they do not react properly. Yes, I do very often end up at the top of dmg/killing blows, but that is because I am decently geared, and for the most part, I know when to fight and when to flee, and I know when I should use my cc and who I should use it on. Most players in warzones don't.

 

All these things play into the end result-> ending up at the top of the charts, and making your inexperienced/stupid (do not learn from their mistakes, or do not even realise the mistakes they make) opponents feel like they get beaten up by an OP class.

 

I also have a commando which I have occasionally played as dps in warzones, and yes, I find it just as ''easy'' to obtain equivalent results with as my scoundrel. My commando has more survivability, great sustained damage, and the ability to cc a target IN COMBAT for a long duration (unlike scoundrel tranquilizer). For an organized pvp group I would pick a commando dps over a scoundrel, because of the extra utility and great ranged sustained damage. I simply play my scoundrel as main because I find commando dps rotation utterly boring. Tracer, tracer, tracer, missile.......

Edited January 12, 2012 by Gunlaugr

[Guest Execs]

You don't have 2 stuns at 14....

 

Right now, everyone's too busy derping it up as Sorc.

 

Erm deliberating strike + flash grenade...

 

2 STUNS.