Vigilance vs. Focus

[VoidJustice]

Apparently the ability to use the DoTs to disrupt people's objectives in a warzone is being taken out.

 

So Vigilence is getting a PvP nerf.

 

Yes I've cried everywhere appropriate even thou I don't spec the god aweful dots...

 

Hopefully we'll get a compensation buff... if not ... at least I tried.

[Marqhill]

Yes I've cried everywhere appropriate even thou I don't spec the god aweful dots...

 

Hopefully we'll get a compensation buff... if not ... at least I tried.

 

Don't see what the big deal is. Coordinate your team and kill the other team. If you kill them then they can't capture objectives and you don't need to lean on your DOT crutch. End of story.

[Starglide]

A lot of people stating Focus has better utility is missing the biggest down fall of the spec--the lack of Focus. Sweep might be great for critting in the Focus tree, but a Vig/Def hybrid spec is going to give you incredible mobility and full Vigilance is going to be better overall DPS and utility. Why more DPS? Because you are able to implement survive-ability and not get ***** if you are taking more than one PC.

 

At the end of the day, when it comes to spurt damage, Focus is by far the best. But overall, Vigilance comes out on top with the ability to keep focus up, have some heavy hitting abilities and DOTs that will keep your enemy at bay (especially healers).

[AndantePhist]

A lot of people stating Focus has better utility is missing the biggest down fall of the spec--the lack of Focus. Sweep might be great for critting in the Focus tree, but a Vig/Def hybrid spec is going to give you incredible mobility and full Vigilance is going to be better overall DPS and utility. Why more DPS? Because you are able to implement survive-ability and not get ***** if you are taking more than one PC.

 

At the end of the day, when it comes to spurt damage, Focus is by far the best. But overall, Vigilance comes out on top with the ability to keep focus up, have some heavy hitting abilities and DOTs that will keep your enemy at bay (especially healers).

 

WRONG

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=249602

 

here is my guide to focus, I NEVER run out of focus... actually I usually have a huge abundance of focus.

 

Just because you dont know how to play focus properly does not give you the right to diss the spec.

[Marqhill]

Let's get one thing straight. Focus generation shouldn't be an issue no matter what build you do. All of the builds have the tools that they need to manage their focus usage and if you're rotation is well coordinated enough that you can balance between generating focus and using focus then you're in good shape. Shien form IS actually the best form for generating focus. This is true. However, the Vigilance skill tree also uses the most by far. Plasma Brand being 5 focus and Overhead slash being 4 focus and both being on a 9 second cool down necessitates a very high rate of focus generation. In the focus tree there are a lot of abilities that will actually reduce the focus cost of a lot of your main abilities. You're not generating as much focus but with your abilities costing so much less focus it's really not unreasonable to manage your focus as long as you've picked the right skills in your tree and are constantly spamming sundering strike like you should be. As such I don't feel that focus generation is a good enough argument to say that one is superior to the other.

 

With that said. I don't think either is actually better than the other. Both are great. They're very different though. I have a friend who is a "Focus Bomber" and when we work together to kill targets that target is DEAD. Focus can burst a target down in seconds and Vigilance does a better job of executing your target than anyone.

[VoidJustice]

Ya Focus and Vig/Def are really cool.

 

Too bad Defence and Full Vig got shafted.

 

2 viable spec for pvp...

I'll take it and sit down,

quite happily actually.

 

Can MT in Focus, cause you can

MT in Vig/Def... so... just sayin...

 

MT and PVP ZOMG I LOVE MY CHARACTER!!!!

[Carousel_t]

focus build = higher damage

vigi spec = higher dps

 

that's it..

[Kinrain]

focus build = higher damage

vigi spec = higher dps

 

that's it..

 

Do you have something that will back that up other than your opinion?

 

Because personally I think they put out about the same single target damage but the timeframe is different. Vig is steady, Focus is burst. Which means Vig is fine if your opponent stands still and lets you do yoru thing without interrupting or moving away.

 

Whereas Focus frontloads that damage into a shorter window which can mean you may kill your enemy quicker.

 

If you take a theoretical minute of combat and break it down into 10x 6 second sections and look at the damage each sec does you get something like this (very simplified):

 

------------1-------2------3-----4------5-----6------7------8------9------10-----

Vig--------10%--10%--10%--10%--10%--10%--10%--10%--10%---10%

Total------10%--20%--30%--40%--50%--60%--70%--80%--90%--100%

Focus-----30%---5%---5%----5%---5%---30%---5%---5%---5%----5%

Total------30%--35%--40%--45%--50%--80%--85%--90%--95%--100%

 

Both do 100% of their damage by the end of the minute but by the 36 second mark Focus has done 80% of its max and Vig has done 60%. It all evens out in the end but not if your opponent's HPs are less than 100% of your total minutes damage.

 

Add to that the additional AOE splash damage from Force Sweep which in PVP still ties up healer resources even if it doesn't achieve additional opportunistic kills. Which it does.

 

If I want to kill a healer and he's got a couple of damaged freinds with him, i'm happy to get a 3 for 1 deal.

[CapuchinSeven]

Focus really isn't an issue in any spec, (outside of Plasma being 5 focus which can be a pain in Soresu form, but not that much of a pain).

 

And the DOT nerf is hardly a nerf, it was nothing more than a crutch to stop players from capping on badly designed maps. You can destroy the enemy and still not be able to take the cap because the speeders took you right to them and you just dot them up.

Edited March 2, 2012 by CapuchinSeven

[bicuspid]

i've never seen a vigilance spec top 600k in a warzone, where that is just a good game for focus spec

 

 

combined with focus clearly doing more burst, i think its clear which is better

[nickelplease]

People need to understand the function of burst damage in PVP.

 

Everything is situational, but if you are going above 400k total damage in a warzone your team is failing.

 

I've made 500k+ damage a couple of times in a warzone because my team (PUG) couldn't get healers/opponents down in a timely fashion. Even tho we won, I consider it a failure on our part.

 

A good victory is a fast warzone with the top dps players being around 200k-300k (sometimes even less than that) damage. That means you timed your interuppts, and coordinated your burst targets effectively, and completed objectives as swift as possible.

 

Burst damage kills someone prior to a heal going off, or completely negates the heal itself.

 

Burst damage killls someone before they can pop a medpac or defensive cooldown.

 

AOE burst damage is overpowered. The ability to hit a healer and the opponents he is healing for 6k+ is backbreaking to the opposing team.

 

Focus is great single target as well, I did some testing in warzones and purposing misplaccing my force sweep not to hit other targets except my own, and I still came out ahead in top damage for my team. And the more I thought about it, I personally don't just bomb crowds of people, I maintain on my single target, and before a sweep goes off I usually see if I can position it to hit an additional target.

 

So in my opinion, Vigilance isn't as optimal as Focus for PvP, however it is viable. The Guardian is currently the only class right now that can AOE burst, and do the highest burst in one hit. If you can, you should take advantage of this.

[VoidJustice]

Another thing to keep in mind.

 

Vigilance requires Crit.

Focus does not.

 

You can pump a bunch o Str/Surg/Pow if you don't need crit.

Edited March 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[AndantePhist]

Another thing to keep in mind.

 

Vigilance requires Crit.

Focus does not.

 

You can pump a bunch o Str/Surg/Pow if you don't need crit.

 

Nah you still need Crit. Just because ONE attack in Focus arsenal does not need crit DOES NOT mean you can forgo crit altogether.

 

Do you know how much damage Force Exhaustion does when every tick crits?... 5-6K... bladestorm will crit for 3K+, hell my force push has crit for 2k+ easily... unintentionally killed ppl with force push when I was just trying to cc them.

 

My first 2 ticks of master strike can crit for 1.5k+ each allowing me to do 3k+ damage in less than a second (always cancel master strike after 2 ticks)

 

Here is something more accurate.

 

Vigilance requires Accuracy (for overhead slash)

Focus does not.

Edited March 3, 2012 by AndantePhist

[Marqhill]

Nah you still need Crit. Just because ONE attack in Focus arsenal does not need crit DOES NOT mean you can forgo crit altogether.

 

Do you know how much damage Force Exhaustion does when every tick crits?... 5-6K... bladestorm will crit for 3K+, hell my force push has crit for 2k+ easily... unintentionally killed ppl with force push when I was just trying to cc them.

 

My first 2 ticks of master strike can crit for 1.5k+ each allowing me to do 3k+ damage in less than a second (always cancel master strike after 2 ticks)

 

Here is something more accurate.

 

Vigilance requires Accuracy (for overhead slash)

Focus does not.

 

Well your underlying assumption is correct. Vigilance WOULD need a lot of accuracy if there were that many people who stacked defense in PvP. At least on my server there aren't that many people that PvP in full tank gear with a lot of defense stacked up. So more often than not it becomes unnecessary to stack a whole lot of Accuracy in PvP at least. In PvE accuracy and crit are both very good for Vigilance and the high end gear will usually have a good mix of both. For PvP I find it better to go with Power + Surge. Interestingly, there are enhancements in the Scoundrel Champion PvP that actually stacks both of those stats.