Macros - ETA?

[Chewpaco]

How does mouseover casting make things too easy?

 

Because it changes a 2 step action ( switch targets and activate spell ) into a 1 step process - click spell.

 

Like the OP said - with mouseover healing, he can leave an offensive target always targeted and easily add dps in between heals.

 

And to the OP:

 

With all you have said in your entire original post, you neglected to mention the 1 TRUE thing about MACRO's

 

They are designed to make tasks that typically require 3 steps into 2 steps. 2 steps into 1 step. They are designed to eliminate some of the decision making, by activating optimally and removing the chance for human error.

 

When you lower the chance for human error - you have just gimped your game, and gimped your encounters.

[GalacticKegger]

Good luck getting a reply from Bioware.

How about a Stephen Reid podcast interview from 2 weeks ago: http://tor-talk.com/exclusive-interview/.

 

[Hint] Don't just read the synopsis because it's not there. Listen to the actual podcast. BioWare's answer to macros & addons is quite clear.

Edited February 8, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Thyrodent]

Because it changes a 2 step action ( switch targets and activate spell ) into a 1 step process - click spell.

 

Like the OP said - with mouseover healing, he can leave an offensive target always targeted and easily add dps in between heals.

 

And to the OP:

 

With all you have said in your entire original post, you neglected to mention the 1 TRUE thing about MACRO's

 

They are designed to make tasks that typically require 3 steps into 2 steps. 2 steps into 1 step. They are designed to eliminate some of the decision making, by activating optimally and removing the chance for human error.

 

When you lower the chance for human error - you have just gimped your game, and gimped your encounters.

 

 

 

you've already gimped the game. Games have their difficulty set on the bell curve. and the majority is not that fast and accurate. So, you are stuck with flashpoints and operations that are easy since the act of instructing the game to carry out intended action is taking more time than deciding to perform that action.

 

would you make a race car with a steering wheel that took two actions to activate? no you wouldn't because it would decrease your ability to instinctualy react to an change in your expected driving path. There is no logical argument against this point. if you disagree you are likely a wierdo that likes miracle whip.

[GalacticKegger]

would you make a race car with a steering wheel that took two actions to activate? no you wouldn't because it would decrease your ability to instinctualy react to an change in your expected driving path. There is no logical argument against this point. if you disagree you are likely a wierdo that likes miracle whip.

There is nothing in the cockpit under the driver's control that is automated. Everything is one action in = one response out. Everything. The racer who needs his steering + braking + downshifting "rotation" minimized into a single collision avoidance "macro" has a deathwish and is a danger to other drivers. Racing is raw vision, anticipation and reaction - the same way some like to play their video games. How does that make either one a Miracle Whip weirdo? Edited February 9, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[DaxRendar]

would you make a race car with a steering wheel that took two actions to activate? no you wouldn't because it would decrease your ability to instinctualy react to an change in your expected driving path. There is no logical argument against this point. if you disagree you are likely a wierdo that likes miracle whip.

 

There is a reason why many racing leagues don't allow cars with automatic transmissions though... and that is a far more apt comparison

[Xarry]

Why's that?

 

Because all the wow kiddies will hopefully quit?

Edited February 8, 2012 by Xarry

[Necothefreeko]

Some people would argue that writing a comprehensive macro that makes your rotation more efficient is as much a sign of game playing skill as rotating through 18 keys. Just sayin. In my opinion the macro writer is a better player because he is using the tools at his disposal.

[GalacticKegger]

Some people would argue that writing a comprehensive macro that makes your rotation more efficient is as much a sign of game playing skill as rotating through 18 keys. Just sayin. In my opinion the macro writer is a better player because he is using the tools at his disposal.

Does that imply the macro writer is a less skilled player because those tools are not at his disposal?

[TheRealRainier]

Because it changes a 2 step action ( switch targets and activate spell ) into a 1 step process - click spell.

 

Like the OP said - with mouseover healing, he can leave an offensive target always targeted and easily add dps in between heals.

 

Good players are already casting offensive/cc spells in between heals, its just more of a pain. Should DPS auto-drop their target every 3 seconds and have to reclick on them? Because right now that's exactly how playing your healing class "well" feels. Stupid not to have the option for mouseover casting in a 2012 MMO. Don't like it, don't use it and continue to spam FoL on the tank, kthx.

[hurja]

29 pages and i'm just about ready to strangle myself

 

i'd love to be able to have a friendly target and use control+hotkey to cast force shield on me without losing my target.

 

+1 for non-rift like macros. that game drowned with them.

[Kalolo]

Macros have to be implemented, if u don't like them then don't use them, but we must have the choice between those two. Its pretty weird that they haven't been already in the game at launch, its not like its a new tool on MMO's. But with the abilities delay, i'm pretty sure that's why BW hasn't done it yet.

[DTuloJr]

How about a Stephen Reid podcast interview from 2 weeks ago: http://tor-talk.com/exclusive-interview/.

 

[Hint] Don't just read the synopsis because it's not there. Listen to the actual podcast. BioWare's answer to macros & addons is quite clear.

 

BWA is very non-committal to producing or supporting features that for SIX YEARS of development time they IGNORED or outright REFUSED to build into their product. They pushed a product out the door 3 months early with features that by even SEVEN year old standards is mediocre. And now they're doing exactly what I said they were going to do; giving us IOU's with no committed set-in-stone features or release date. They're telling us "Give us all of your money, we might eventually get around to giving you what you want. Some day. Trust us! Just pay for us to keep things in operation until we get around to it." Pure arrogance.

Edited February 9, 2012 by DTuloJr

[Nurvus]

Modifier; Conditional & Targetting Macros, are indeed the only kind of macros we need to make the game more fluid.

 

By "we", I mean the ones who want macros in the game.

 

Modifier:

- Shift; Alt; Ctrl or a mix of those.

 

These may seem useless since we can already bind "modified" stuff, but this gets important when mixing Modifier with Conditions and/or Targetting.

 

Conditional - easily limited by Bioware:

- In Combat/Out of Combat

- Stances (charges, cylinders, forms, stealth, cover, etc)

- Mounted/Unmounted

 

Targetting:

- Friendly target/Hostile target

- Mouseover/focus/target/self

----

 

Nothing of the above is ever (not even slightly) going to give me (who wants macros) an edge over you (who doesn't want macros).

Edited February 9, 2012 by Nurvus

[Bald_Haliaeetus]

Modifier; Conditional & Targetting Macros, are indeed the only kind of macros we need to make the game more fluid.

 

By "we", I mean the ones who want macros in the game.

 

Modifier:

- Shift; Alt; Ctrl or a mix of those.

 

These may seem useless since we can already bind "modified" stuff, but this gets important when mixing Modifier with Conditions and/or Targetting.

 

Conditional - easily limited by Bioware:

- In Combat/Out of Combat

- Stances (charges, cylinders, forms, stealth, cover, etc)

- Mounted/Unmounted

 

Targetting:

- Friendly target/Hostile target

- Mouseover/focus/target/self

----

 

Nothing of the above is ever (not even slightly) going to give me (who wants macros) an edge over you (who doesn't want macros).

 

/signed

[Exilicus]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=285249

 

You ask too much sir.

[Panicked]

Macros have to be implemented, if u don't like them then don't use them, but we must have the choice between those two. Its pretty weird that they haven't been already in the game at launch, its not like its a new tool on MMO's. But with the abilities delay, i'm pretty sure that's why BW hasn't done it yet.

 

Macros are not a needed feature. You can't just not use them because macros really do give a competitive edge over someone who does not use any.

[Bald_Haliaeetus]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=285249

 

You ask too much sir.

 

I'd rather see this game succeed. With the exception of a few critical issues, this game has some amazing potential - I really want to enjoy it.

 

Yes, BW could make the game worse if they make the wrong moves. Indeed, implementing macros could be one of those moves if they aren't careful about it and pull something akin to Rift's.

 

But, have some faith in BW; what they ave done right, they've done an AMAZING job of. Let's add macros to that list.

[Bald_Haliaeetus]

Macros are not a needed feature. You can't just not use them because macros really do give a competitive edge over someone who does not use any.

 

False. Read the OP.

[gurugeorge]

I like the kind of macros whereby you can bind emotes and actions and/or your own text to actions, etc., etc.

 

i.e. "fluff" macros are a lot of fun to play around with.

 

Gameplay-affecting macros are obviously a t***** area. (Come on BW, T-H-O-R-N-Y is a word lol)

 

Me, personally, I love things like the AI scripts in DA:O. I could quite happily program little AI routines into my characters and watch 'em go, change them round, etc., etc. Hours of fun.

 

But maybe that's just me. I guess I like to have a sense that they're living characters who can do things themselves sometimes, when they don't have their "god" working through them

Edited February 9, 2012 by gurugeorge

[Toodumb]

While I support the idea of macros as posted by the OP, I strongly believe that this should be prioritized well below some other healing QoL UI items such as /target of focus and /target of target commands. For me, healing without mouseovers and conditional casting is mildly more clunky (not horrible, but opinions may differ) and causes a mild DPS loss while healing on easy fights, whereas trying to heal a target-switching boss at the moment is massively obnoxious. If these things are implemented it would make macros themselves much better on implementation as well!

 

I posted something similar in the mouseover healing thread on the healing forums a while back - I'm not trying to derail the thread but I think people are making a bigger deal about this than I feel it deserves.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Toodumb

[gregordunbar]

Not this topic again...Bioware does not care one bit about macros or mods. They have proved it for over a year now with no offical response. You and your opinion on this topic does not matter...they wouldnt even talk to the major mod groups about it.

 

They made their niche game, they dont care if someone wants something that doesnt fall into their niche, they dont care if you quit because of it. This is their vision.

 

Some are going to cheer, yeah I dont like macro/mods anyway those cheaters to justify what Bioware is doing...but what they dont get is that the thing THEY are wanting, free space mode, super speed mounts, sandbox...isnt coming either for the same reason. Bioware does not know that MMORPGs are NOT handled like single player games.

[Nempo]

 

False. Read the OP.

 

You are the misinformed one, even in wow you can link multiple abilities to a single macro (granted only two or three usually) you just have to get creative in how you link them. The fact you don't know how to do it is besides the point. Last I played it was mandatory for warriors to have weapon swap macros for shield reflect in PvP, that by it's very nature is combining abilities (equiping a shield in combat= one ability, switching stances = 2 abilities, using shield reflect = 3 abilities, once the shield reflect goes away a re-equip to your first weapon set = the 4th ability in the set). If you really want macros to be nothing but 1 ability per then it should only have one command line per. In the case of the shield reflect macro that means each step needs it's own button. What's that? That defeats the whole point of macro's? Your right, that is exactly the point. Don't use them, manually do everything...a game that allows macro-ing begins chipping away at what skill exists in the game (admitably it doesn't take much to play at the highest levels in PvE or PvP in any MMO, but still don't diminish it any more than what already is).

 

Macros are only needed by the unskilled. Play the game without them and show you got what it takes to play at the highest levels.

 

Macros are also nothing but a convenience feature, convenience features should not even be on the priority list right now. Class balance and crap like the bright UI windowshades needing removed (just look at the thread as it continues to expand with rants against it) are of infinitely higher priority.

[Daekarus]

All of the OP's edit is but to say, "eh, macros aren't THAT bad... we just want the reasonable ones that take away the need for quick reaction times and skill." Honestly, the WHOLE POINT of a target-switching boss is to make it harder to heal. If you can mouseover something, you can also click and hit a hotkey quickly... and I think the likelihood that you'll have trouble clicking on an Operations boss is small. As far as macros that figure out what the target is and casts heals or attacks... Holy Smokes! If THAT decision is too much for you (or perhaps hitting the ctrl or alt key?) you need another hobby. I was prepared to hear a good argument for macros, but I was disappointed... out of the horse's mouth, the only uses for them are unnecessary and involve automating the playing of your character. If they put them in, fine, but I hope they're way the heck down the priority list. Edited February 10, 2012 by Daekarus

[Swage]

NO to macros.

 

I've played the games with good, bad and no macros and I gotta say, they're a MMO disease in my opinion.

[Daekarus]

Bioware does not know that MMORPGs are NOT handled like single player games.

 

Interesting. I think that's one reason why so many online games go under... they have no vision or direction. Personally, I hope Bioware continues with their vision, and doesn't make the mistake of trying to be all things to all people... because THOSE GAMES SUCK. Play it for what it is, not what you think they should've done.