My rage spec and reason why

[Demanoth]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMMZhZGr0ddrRdhR.1

 

This is the rage spec ill be running in pvp with.

 

Let me explain this build a little bit. Im planning in staying in soresu form at al time.

 

Prons

 

A Guard

B 60% more armor

C 15% extra shield chance

 

Cons

 

A Less rage

B Less dmg in stance

 

Now i trully believe that the few % dmg of the stance difference, (i believe it is 6% melee in total of wic 3 % all dmg), is wastefull. Reason is Rage is more Kinetic dmg( smash crush choke). So of the 6% only 3% will affect all your dmg.

 

Now your rage income is gimped , i agree but its manageble. I discard vicious slash as a rage dump but i had to put a talent point in something. I find with al the cooldowns im using retaliation is enough as a attack in between hence the 2 points in it. Since we have trouble with our rage in soresu form. Ret now only cost 1 rage and it is of the gcd, while vicious slash would cost 3. And they both hit almost as hard as each other.

 

2 Points in enraged sunder to get that little extra rage since this should always be used as rage builder.

 

I skipped intimidation because chilling scream at 1 rage is enough as far as im concerned it last for a good 9 seconds, so technicly you would use it once in the 9 seconds.

 

I skipped dreadnaught since my feeling tells me 6% str isnt all that at this moment.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Demanoth

[Zandermill]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMMZhZGr0ddrRdhR.1

 

This is the rage spec ill be running in pvp with.

 

Let me explain this build a little bit. Im planning in staying in soresu form at al time.

 

Prons

 

A Guard

B 60% more armor

C 15% extra shield chance

 

Cons

 

A Less rage

B Less dmg in stance

 

Now i trully believe that the few % dmg of the stance difference, (i believe it is 6% melee in total of wic 3 % all dmg), is wastefull. Reason is Rage is more Kinetic dmg( smash crush choke). So of the 6% only 3% will affect all your dmg.

 

Now your rage income is gimped , i agree but its manageble. I discard vicious slash as a rage dump but i had to put a talent point in something. I find with al the cooldowns im using retaliation is enough as a attack in between hence the 2 points in it. Since we have trouble with our rage in soresu form. Ret now only cost 1 rage and it is of the gcd, while vicious slash would cost 3. And they both hit almost as hard as each other.

 

2 Points in enraged sunder to get that little extra rage since this should always be used as rage builder.

 

I skipped intimidation because chilling scream at 1 rage is enough as far as im concerned it last for a good 9 seconds, so technicly you would use it once in the 9 seconds.

 

I skipped dreadnaught since my feeling tells me 6% str isnt all that at this moment.

 

I'd like to argue with you for a moment.

First. Juggers Rage! Unless you plan to always run the ball, I'd recommend a more damage oriented build.

Let's take your 6% strength argument first. lets say you have 1200 strength at 50, without the talent you'd be losing 72 strength.

By not taking and using Shii-Cho form, you're losing 20% passive armor pentration as well as increased damage.

 

So unless you're strictly looking at tank pvp, with no hope of damage, then why would you want to go that build, when you'll effectively gimp yourself?

 

If looking at tank build, there are other better options?

[Demanoth]

I see what you mean , but my motivation is mainly how much dmg do i really lose. How much dmg is the lets say 72 total str? how much dmg is the 20% arp. I believe that in total dmg with the stance dmg and talent i might just give up about 6% to 8% in total dmg with alot more survivalbility. In wich i can do more dmg because i live longer . Thats my motivation behind this build, lets call i a hybrid rage tanky dps spec.

[Noth]

If you play well you will still be able to top damage charts. You won't lose that much damage.

[Darth_Sookie]

Your build is good but considering you only need 1 point in to intimidation i think it's worth it to get spammable chilling scream. Edited January 11, 2012 by Darth_Sookie

[Sointu]

If you're planning to go for prot pvp gears, then I wouldn't recommend this build. I can dish ~same amount of damage as prot + have backhand and non channeled force choke AND better survivability than the build you posted (Tested almost similar build what you have in mind).

[Errthu]

I have posted exactly the same spec 1 week ago. =]

Don't listen those who advice you to use Shi-Cho - usually they die in 5 seconds. Use Soresu only. =]

 

Anyway:

 

Your build is good but considering you only need 1 point in to intimidation i think it's worth it to get spammable chilling scream.

 

The true is that you don't need SPAMMABLE chilling scream. In most situations you only need to use it once. For me retaliation is essential skill because it adds a decent damage to your burst. I use it as much as I can. It's especially good with ravage following next, when your primary skills are on cooldown.

 

Hope you see my arguements.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Errthu

[iFoo]

No point in saying "Don't listen to the Shii-cho advice" that's just ignorant as people have a valid point.

 

The 20% armour penetration is great, the 6% on top of that is also great on top of the 3% increase it gives anyway. I don't think 29% extra attack is a waste.

 

If you buff up with stims/overcharge this then increases that again. It all adds up at the end of the day.

 

I switch between Shii-Cho and Soresu depending on the situation and classes I face at the time. When you need that little extra DPS on an enemy, switching to Shii-Cho does help for sure.

[Demanoth]

Hmm yes but then again the 6% is melee and the majority of your burst skills are kinectic dmg not melee. And besides that ravage is bugged like hell. I do wonder how much the 20 arp transend into dmg. For now i think the 15% shield change and 60% more armor is superior to the dmg increase.

[Apokalypsis]

Hmm yes but then again the 6% is melee and the majority of your burst skills are kinectic dmg not melee. And besides that ravage is bugged like hell. I do wonder how much the 20 arp transend into dmg. For now i think the 15% shield change and 60% more armor is superior to the dmg increase.

 

And the armour penetration?

 

You dont know how your class works, you dont realize what is your more important tool. Its a fail spec for pvp indeed.

[Demanoth]

well im only lvl 41 so far and im 9/10 times top 5 dmg and top 3 medals . But instead of screaming fail build and learn to play your class come with some number in terms of the 20 % armor pen.

 

 

Lets say i got 5000 armor with a reduction of 50 % the 20 % of that is 1k armor less so i guess 10 % less dmg reduction. this is me in soresu vs a shii sho.

 

Now shii sho vs me

 

my 4 k armor vs his 2k armor saying 60% armor off my 5k. So i generaly still how more armor and 15% higher chance to shield.

 

I know these numbers arent 100% accurate but its the general line im trying to show.

[Apokalypsis]

well im only lvl 41 so far and im 9/10 times top 5 dmg and top 3 medals . But instead of screaming fail build and learn to play your class come with some number in terms of the 20 % armor pen.

 

 

Lets say i got 5000 armor with a reduction of 50 % the 20 % of that is 1k armor less so i guess 10 % less dmg reduction. this is me in soresu vs a shii sho.

 

Now shii sho vs me

 

my 4 k armor vs his 2k armor saying 60% armor off my 5k. So i generaly still how more armor and 15% higher chance to shield.

 

I know these numbers arent 100% accurate but its the general line im trying to show.

 

You have a skill that reduces armor penetration. 20% minus armour penetration with 5 stacks of sudering armour makes a difference.

 

Its a fail to spec SAber Buffet if you dont get Sundering Assault too. YOu just get random skills that sounds good to oyu and you dont follow a final goal.

 

Try to understand me, its not fail, this game is so easy that you can do good with the worst spec, but your points distribution have no sense and follow no goal. You are gimping the dps of a class that has not much dps to be gimped. So GL versus good players.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Apokalypsis

[Demanoth]

yes but i also got sunder assault, so there will always be atleast 40% armor difference between soresu stance users and shii sho form users.

 

Because sunder assault works in stacks its 20% of the armor the target has then 4% of that value etc etc so you might get up to a armor reducation of arround 32 % in total. Its not 20 and 20 its 20 + 4% of the remaining value etc etc. And gimping the dps its maybe a total of 5 % difference in wich i make up with the 1 rage costing retaliation wich i can easily keep on gcb hench it costing 1 rage.

 

And my final goal is having a bit more survivability at the cost of minimal dmg. Im not picking random skills. Like i said i take the sunder in rage tree for the extra rage wich you need in soresu form and the retaliation rage deduction in order to maintain your rage income and cost.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Demanoth

[Apokalypsis]

yes but i also got sunder assault, so there will always be atleast 40% armor difference between soresu stance users and shii sho form users.

 

Because sunder assault works in stacks its 20% of the armor the target has then 4% of that value etc etc so you might get up to a armor reducation of arround 32 % in total. Its not 20 and 20 its 20 + 4% of the remaining value etc etc. And gimping the dps its maybe a total of 5 % difference in wich i make up with the 1 rage costing retaliation wich i can easily keep on gcb hench it costing 1 rage.

 

You know you can change forms in combat ye? When I need to protect a healer or more cover I change. When I need to DPS i go Sii-Cho. You are basicly following a DPS spec and trying to be tank, what will fail. IF you want guard, use guard when needed on ball carrier or in a healer being attacked, but now you are wasting your tools.

 

And I havent told you all you can get. Find out which one is the most important skill you have then focus on it and boost it.

[Demanoth]

Yes but how do you handle the rage dump when changing forms doesnt that gimp your dmg then. I understand what your trying to say.

 

But when your in dps mode lets say 1v1 im pretty sure it will be a 50% win lose situation against a soresu user you do more dmg i can take more dmg .

[Errthu]

Stance dance is horrible because you do saber throw and charge and then realize you should immeditely waste all rage to switch to soresu because your teammate is at 10% of hp already.

[Apokalypsis]

Yes but how do you handle the rage dump when changing forms doesnt that gimp your dmg then. I understand what your trying to say.

 

But when your in dps mode lets say 1v1 im pretty sure it will be a 50% win lose situation against a soresu user you do more dmg i can take more dmg .

 

Charge with the throwing saber or just enrage, skill that you have cap in your tree.

 

Your maths are wrong so you cant use them as argument to win in a 1vs1 situation. My spec is not for 1vs1 its for group pvp but anyway I dont think you can do bettter than me with that spec.

 

Jug is a class that lacks a bit of dps for the resistance, low for being a heavy armour class, that it has, you will just be alive for your dinamism, a good healer and/or your base class tools than ofc can be boosted.

 

But you arent doing any of these. Just taking the tank part on a dps tree thinking that the shield chance and the 60% defense rating will be cool in 1vs1 situation.

 

When you are 50 you will see how difficult is to kill a healer, more 1vs1, and you will change your mind boosting your dps or changing to a real tank spec, or hybrid with Vengance and Immortal tools

 

Stance dance is horrible because you do saber throw and charge and then realize you should immeditely waste all rage to switch to soresu because your teammate is at 10% of hp already.

 

 

 

Well ofc stance dance is horrible. I just meant in specific situations. Enrage has 90 secs CD I think so its not that bad to guard a guy in certain situations. Anyway with the taunts abilities the class has I barely Guard, I mostly do it in Huttball

Edited January 11, 2012 by Apokalypsis

[Errthu]

Enrage has 90 secs CD I think so its not that bad to guard a guy in certain situations. Anyway with the taunts abilities the class has I barely Guard, I mostly do it in Huttball

 

Enrage has a 60 seconds cd. But it's better to use it when you are in close combat and can't charge (slowed for example, no proper target), which happens a lot.

And guard is our best ability, you better do not damage but guard =]

Edited January 11, 2012 by Errthu

[Apokalypsis]

Enrage has a 60 seconds cd. But it's better to use it when when you are in close combat and can't charge (slowed for example, no proper target), which happens a lot.

And guard is our best ability, you better do not damage but guard =]

 

I have other tools I use it but I more pull to their healers kill pull back charging and using my taunts and intercede normally thats enough.

 

Ye I dont waste Rage but Its a fact that you can do some instance change and its ok to do so. Anyway Healers can take care of themselves with all the bubbles and with Intercede and Taunts is enough. In Huttball is other thing and I use it a lot but I mostly carry the ball too or pass it to an assassin that goes so faster I cant guard him so

[Kolbenito]

well im only lvl 41 so far and im 9/10 times top 5 dmg and top 3 medals . But instead of screaming fail build and learn to play your class come with some number in terms of the 20 % armor pen.

 

 

Lets say i got 5000 armor with a reduction of 50 % the 20 % of that is 1k armor less so i guess 10 % less dmg reduction. this is me in soresu vs a shii sho.

 

Now shii sho vs me

 

my 4 k armor vs his 2k armor saying 60% armor off my 5k. So i generaly still how more armor and 15% higher chance to shield.

 

I know these numbers arent 100% accurate but its the general line im trying to show.

 

That isn't generally how Armor Penetration works. Having said that, we can't know how it works in swtor because we have no way to parse damage.

 

Assuming it works in the typical way 20% Armor Penetration is MORE effective against you in Soresu form than in Shii-Cho. In other words it does it's best damage against high armor targets and worst (equal to strength) against low armor targets.