Knockbacks OP in huttball?

[RiskyBiz]

Just because it's a common term doesn't mean that everyone is in agreement as to what it means. If you made a new thread asking the community to define what they think "OP" means do you think that every reply would have the same basic definition or would there be disagreements?

 

As it so happens, "reasonable action" is also another term that is hard to define. It is best expressed by using examples I feel--

Example of something that couldn't reasonably be prevented: Ability to stealth while carrying the hutball. Yes, technically one could use AoE or find stealth abilities to find the stealthed person, but it isn't reasonable to ask people to do this.

 

Pretty please stop trying to sound intellectual, it's coming off really silly. And you still haven't answered how you can "reasonably prevent" (keyword being reasonably) an AoE knockback.

[oceansofmars]

Both teams can use it though so whats the isse? Ops arent ball runners and neither is my sniper. If you want to run balls go jugg or sorc otherwise we are mainly support and wrecking ball duty

[RiskyBiz]

Both teams can use it though so whats the isse? Ops arent ball runners and neither is my sniper. If you want to run balls go jugg or sorc otherwise we are mainly support and wrecking ball duty

 

Not all classes can use it, so assuming both teams have an equal knockback ability isn't accurate

[Ashanor]

With the talented root, it's overpowered everywhere.

[yukirshiro]

Both teams can use it though so whats the isse? Ops arent ball runners and neither is my sniper. If you want to run balls go jugg or sorc otherwise we are mainly support and wrecking ball duty

 

It's not about that. It's about ops being crap in huttball because you brign nothing to the table at all except the ability to blow up idiot noobs and that doesn't win matches.

 

When I play op in huttball every single game I run into at least 1-2 situations where if I were any other class I could have capped or stopped a cap. It gets old after a while running into a SS for the 11 billionth time on a catwalk and knowing there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop them from scoring. And then have the situation reversed a few minutes later and know there is abo****ely nothing you can do to stop them from stopping you.

 

Sure, if you play exclusively with premades and you can find a premade who will take you as charity you will do fine. But in less than ideal situations it makes a gamebreaking difference whether you've got one of those tools or not.

[Tremk]

can you recover from a knockback with almost full health? yes

can you recover from being chain stunned and insta gibbed in 2-3 seconds in tanking gear? no

 

 

priorities priorities

[KiranK]

Not all classes can use it, so assuming both teams have an equal knockback ability isn't accurate

 

If the Sith Inquisitor wasn't the most over played class in the game then that MIGHT apply, but it doesn't. Far, far from it. Why does the sorc/sage get every form of CC in the game, an aoe knock back, AND a speed boost? Not to mention their ally pull. Bioware really screwed the pooch on that one.

[yukirshiro]

If the Sith Inquisitor wasn't the most over played class in the game then that MIGHT apply, but it doesn't. Far, far from it. Why does the sorc/sage get every form of CC in the game, an aoe knock back, AND a speed boost? Not to mention their ally pull. Bioware really screwed the pooch on that one.

 

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. A 7 year old could have seen the balance problems in huttball that was going to cause.

[ZeusThunder]

Pretty please stop trying to sound intellectual, it's coming off really silly. And you still haven't answered how you can "reasonably prevent" (keyword being reasonably) an AoE knockback.

 

You didn't ask me to list ways in which a knockback can be reasonably prevented, you asked me to define what reasonably prevented means. Also, this is the way I type; I'm sorry if you don't like it. I don't make fun of your incorrect grammar, please don't make fun of my correct grammar.

 

Here are some of the ways a knockback can be reasonably prevented (or mitigated):

- Most simple solution, move out the area

- As previously stated in this thread, put your back against something "safe"

- Being rooted at the time prevents you from being knocked back (or pulled)

- Specific to Hutball: Pass the ball so that being knocked back isn't an issue

- If you were the ball carrier and got knocked back, your teammates can get in a good passing position for you to pass to

- Some classes have a "leap" ability which lets them get right back to where they were previously by "leaping" to the player that knocked them back

[jellOfish]

I wouldn't call it OP but irritating, extremely irritating. On the other two warzones I can live with it but in huttball it's a major pain in the *** due to the level design. As a marauder I chase down ball carriers and more often then not there is absolutely nothing I can do to stop them because as soon as I get close I get knocked back and two stories below. It makes me want to punch someone in that very moment.

[Friction]

Pretty please stop trying to sound intellectual, it's coming off really silly. And you still haven't answered how you can "reasonably prevent" (keyword being reasonably) an AoE knockback.

 

I'll take a swing at this "Reasonable prevention".

 

Here is my thinking process.

 

1. Identify the threat - "That guy is X class, X class has an AoE knockback."

2. At this point, my options are as follows:

a) Position myself so that his knockback will not impact me - angles are easy to predict

b) Kill the threat before he may use said knock back - stuns and team assistance help

c) Use my Force Shroud to Resist the knockback

d) Use my knockback before the threat does

e) Pass the ball to another player who is in better position than myself

[jellOfish]

You didn't ask me to list ways in which a knockback can be reasonably prevented, you asked me to define what reasonably prevented means. Also, this is the way I type; I'm sorry if you don't like it. I don't make fun of your incorrect grammar, please don't make fun of my correct grammar.

 

Here are some of the ways a knockback can be reasonably prevented (or mitigated):

- Most simple solution, move out the area. Easier said than done when it is instant cast.

 

- As previously stated in this thread, put your back against something "safe". Not possible on the ledges bro.

 

- Being rooted at the time prevents you from being knocked back (or pulled). Being rooted also prevents you from doind anything else if you are melee.

 

- Specific to Hutball: Pass the ball so that being knocked back isn't an issue. So they can get knocked back instead of me, amirite?

 

- If you were the ball carrier and got knocked back, your teammates can get in a good passing position for you to pass to

 

- Some classes have a "leap" ability which lets them get right back to where they were previously by "leaping" to the player that knocked them back. These classes also need to see their target but if you get knocked down from the upper-most ledge it can be quite difficult.

 

......

Edited January 10, 2012 by jellOfish

[Sykomyke]

If the Sith Inquisitor wasn't the most over played class in the game then that MIGHT apply, but it doesn't. Far, far from it. Why does the sorc/sage get every form of CC in the game, an aoe knock back, AND a speed boost? Not to mention their ally pull. Bioware really screwed the pooch on that one.

 

Actually I feel like the inquisitor is fine with having the knockback due to their armor class.

What I'm not fine with is Mercs/Commandos getting it. A heavy armor ranged dps/healer hybrid class does not need a PBAoE knockback. Knockbacks are a utility skill, as such they are used more for their effects, and not their damage. The utility being, you don't want something/someone hitting you.

 

A sorcerer has a reason to not want to be hit, low armor class,caster.

A Commando has no reason to have the knockback. Heavy Armor helps mitigate people who are on you. If it comes down to the reason of "well they are ranged" then fine, give them a single target knockback. They don't need all of the tools in their disposal. What are their tools?

 

*For every spec*

Heavy Armor

Ranged DPS

A basic healing spell (at least)

PBAoE knockback

 

 

 

 

Ridiculous.

[Friction]

@jellOfish

 

Your statements are exaggerated.

 

- Knock backs are not instant and require the caster to be within a set range

 

- Yes, this is possible on the ledges. Knockbacks are angularly based, position yourself so the knockback punts you further down the ledge (knockback does not mean knock-off)

 

- It also prevents you from being knockedback

 

- Knockback has a cooldown, assuming your buddy can relocate within this time - there is no problem in passing. You are not right.

 

- Classes with the leap often do not concern themselves with ledges - they dive the pit and leap to a respawned enemy. This situation is irrelevant.

 

Edit: I am not looking to cause upset. But you are attacking a game feature that I find not only fair, but very enjoyable. Knockbacks add a unique and strategic element to Huttball.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Friction

[Hadlis]

As a Mercenery...I have two knock backs. The only place they are even usefull is Huttball...and yes...it's actually really fun

 

I can sweep a catwalk clear of several playersn or knock back a pesky jedi/jugg that just lept to the edge like he was going to punk me...not!

 

In huttball knockbacks really give Mercs a chance to survive if you remember to move and line up your target correctly.

 

It's not op...just annoying if your that type of gamer that takes stuff personaly.

[RiskyBiz]

You didn't ask me to list ways in which a knockback can be reasonably prevented, you asked me to define what reasonably prevented means. Also, this is the way I type; I'm sorry if you don't like it. I don't make fun of your incorrect grammar, please don't make fun of my correct grammar.

 

Here are some of the ways a knockback can be reasonably prevented (or mitigated):

- Most simple solution, move out the area

- As previously stated in this thread, put your back against something "safe"

- Being rooted at the time prevents you from being knocked back (or pulled)

- Specific to Hutball: Pass the ball so that being knocked back isn't an issue

- If you were the ball carrier and got knocked back, your teammates can get in a good passing position for you to pass to

- Some classes have a "leap" ability which lets them get right back to where they were previously by "leaping" to the player that knocked them back

 

Grammar had nothing to do with it, you made some silly debate on the true meaning of "over powered" which would move the conversation away from the issue... anyways-- to address your "reasonable solutions"...

 

"Move out of the area"

- So your advice is to "run away from that guy." How is that viable or fair?

 

"Put your back against something"

- So I have to hug a wall to avoid getting blasted off of a ramp and away from my team in Hutt Ball? And how am I supposed to do this when the upper tier ramps don't have anything to put my back against?

 

"Being rooted at the time prevents you from being knocked back (or pulled)"

- Now you've really lost me. So you're saying that if I'm rooted by an enemy, I can't be knocked back-- and this somehow balances the issue? Hm??

 

"Some classes have a "leap" ability which lets them get right back to where they were previously by "leaping" to the player that knocked them back"

- My class doesn't, so the knockback is still an issue for me.

 

 

Feel free to hit me up with an actual valid argument to the knockback issue in Huttball. your "reasonable solutions" don't seem at all reasonable to me. Passing the ball, sure. That's one way out of it I suppose-- but it still doesn't feel balanced to me.

Edited January 11, 2012 by RiskyBiz

[veyl]

If the Sith Inquisitor wasn't the most over played class in the game then that MIGHT apply, but it doesn't. Far, far from it. Why does the sorc/sage get every form of CC in the game, an aoe knock back, AND a speed boost? Not to mention their ally pull. Bioware really screwed the pooch on that one.

 

And they're also the squishiest of them all. Focus fire is real tough, eh? They're just like how Frost mages are in that other game. If you can't understand how to counter them to make them dead, you probably aren't playing properly. The class has those tools at their disposal because of how squishy they really are. (I'm sure any Operative/assassin/shadow can vouch for how hard they've hit them/killed them within a stun/knockdown rotation.)

 

AoE knockback? It has been said numerous times already, it's all about positioning or knowing to stun/snare/cc first before they get to the clutter of idiots standing on the platform begging to be knocked off.

 

Force Speed? How long do you think that lasts? If you have any snare/slow and don't put it on the inquisitor, you've already failed. When that 2 seconds is up, they still have the snare on them and are easily caught up to. Oh, did you know that you can stun them while they're running as well? That's a 30s CD that now renders the Inquisitor without any escape from melee if snared/slowed.

 

As for the CC's, every single class in the game has the same CC options, they're just painted in a different coat of flavor text and are visually different.

 

To the OP: A well organized group of 4 people pass the ball around knock back spots in Huttball with ease. It adds to the excitement of the game and actually forces pugs to play cooperatively instead of just killing people.

 

Huttball is an easy stand out of great things Bioware has come up with and accomplished.

[Friction]

Another strategy is to stack resolve prior to going up on the ramps. You can walk from Fire#1 to endzone within a single resolve bar.

[elumarom]

Gotta Love my 15sec cd jetboost on huttball, only thing that is really annoying is that because of the animation it has a 1sec delay of when you actually press it, screwed me over many times. Also as mercenary really needs to stand still to do damage you can just run away from them and survive easily on 1v1 situatio0ns.

 

Also if you interrupt their tracer missile many Mercs don't know what to do, really funny to watch when that happens.

 

Also many classes has some kinda knockback resist skill really annoying

Edited January 11, 2012 by elumarom

[Astarica]

I think people are arguing two different things here. There's KB in open terrain, and then there's KB in Huttball. In open terrain KB is easily dealt with. In Huttball, if you're a melee, getting knocked off usually means you get pummeled to death from someone who is in a spot where it'd take you 20 seconds to physically reach there, and by then you'd be dead. KB is is no ways balanced against melee in Huttball, but this is somewhat mitigiated by the fact that only melees have 'grab enemy' abilities which allows you to drop people into fire/acid in Huttball. It doesn't quite make up for being thrown off 2 stories with no way of retaliating but it's something.

[jellOfish]

@jellOfish

 

Your statements are exaggerated.

 

- Knock backs are not instant and require the caster to be within a set range

 

- Yes, this is possible on the ledges. Knockbacks are angularly based, position yourself so the knockback punts you further down the ledge (knockback does not mean knock-off)

 

- It also prevents you from being knockedback

 

- Knockback has a cooldown, assuming your buddy can relocate within this time - there is no problem in passing. You are not right.

 

- Classes with the leap often do not concern themselves with ledges - they dive the pit and leap to a respawned enemy. This situation is irrelevant.

 

Edit: I am not looking to cause upset. But you are attacking a game feature that I find not only fair, but very enjoyable. Knockbacks add a unique and strategic element to Huttball.

 

What's the cast time on the point blank AoE knockbacks then?

 

Also with the positioning on the ledges you make it sound like it's the easiest thing to do. Sometimes it's enough to be 10degrees of and you don't get pushed firther down the line but off the ledge or you get pushed into the fire. If I am not on the ball carrier but go after a respawned enemy who is completely irrelevant to the objective I am not doing my job so the sotuation is very relevant.

 

I take it you are a class that has a knockback?

[RiskyBiz]

I'll take a swing at this "Reasonable prevention".

 

Here is my thinking process.

 

1. Identify the threat - "That guy is X class, X class has an AoE knockback."

2. At this point, my options are as follows:

a) Position myself so that his knockback will not impact me - angles are easy to predict

b) Kill the threat before he may use said knock back - stuns and team assistance help

c) Use my Force Shroud to Resist the knockback

d) Use my knockback before the threat does

e) Pass the ball to another player who is in better position than myself

 

A: Makes sense, unless you're on the upper tiers of the ramps in which case there isn't really anything to back up against. Angles are irrelevant when you're on a narrow catwalk-- the issue is getting knocked to the bottom level.

 

B: Come on, now. Really?

 

C: I don't have one of those, but it sounds nifty.

 

D: Kind of made me laugh, considering the actual point to my thread-- I'm talking about classes without knockbacks Vs. classes with knockbacks. If you have one, then this argument isn't really about you.

 

E: I suppose this is where the solution will have to be, as nothing else really seems that viable.

[RiskyBiz]

I think people are arguing two different things here. There's KB in open terrain, and then there's KB in Huttball. In open terrain KB is easily dealt with. In Huttball, if you're a melee, getting knocked off usually means you get pummeled to death from someone who is in a spot where it'd take you 20 seconds to physically reach there, and by then you'd be dead. KB is is no ways balanced against melee in Huttball, but this is somewhat mitigiated by the fact that only melees have 'grab enemy' abilities which allows you to drop people into fire/acid in Huttball. It doesn't quite make up for being thrown off 2 stories with no way of retaliating but it's something.

 

This, this, and this. This is the point of my thread-- exclusively talking about hutt ball knockbacks. Open world PvP it's not problem at all and it's a fun mechanic, in hutt ball it's game breaking.

[veyl]

Feel free to hit me up with an actual valid argument to the knockback issue in Huttball. your "reasonable solutions" don't seem at all reasonable to me. Passing the ball, sure. That's one way out of it I suppose-- but it still doesn't feel balanced to me.

 

You mean the team has to play cooperatively to score in a team based arena that has goal lines? Pretty sure you just answered your own "valid argument" question. You also forget, both sides have knock backs at their disposal, crying about it is kind of pointless.

[jellOfish]

All the people who say it is fine are the ones who have this knockback skills. There is no skill or strategy involved in running into people with your shield up while they are busy fighting and pressing a button to use a skill which you don't even have to target at anyone, get real please.