BioWare: "most" people aren't having SWTOR performance issues

[Palanor]

Right, but that in and of itself might be an issue. If something about the install process is disabling SLI or messing with settings on systems like this - then the other people having issues might be having issues because something changed and they didnt think to look at it. If you had enabled SLI last week, why would you bother to look this week to make sure it was enabled, since you know you didn't disable it?

 

Something about the way the SLI drivers interract might have caused issues with it disabled.

 

I'm running a single-card solution and have never had a single framerate problem other than Fleet, and i dont know that i call that a "problem" - i mean, 300 people in one relatively small area is going to cause slowdown. It just is. Even then i still get 30fps (i play with Vsync enabled) solid in Fleet, so im not complaining.

 

My wife runs my old machine, (For reference, im running a Westmere Xeon, Hexacore, @ 3.06Ghz and a Radeon 5870, 12GB of RAM; she's running the old machine, two dual-core Woodcrest Xeon's @ 2.66Ghz w/Radeon 4870 and 8GB of RAM) and she has similarly never had a single problem. She gets a solid 60fps with most settings on high everywhere but Fleet. (For reference, the Westmere chips are i7 based, the Woodcrest are C2D).

 

A friend of ours who has a similarly beefy rig (Core i7, lots of ram, single-card nVidia high end solution, unsure exactly what) also has no issues.

 

Another friend of ours who IS having issues and has an almost identical rig - you guessed it - has two cards. I just sent him a text to check his SLI settings and see if something has changed.

 

My money is on something like this being the culprit.

 

I'm not saying SWTOR didn't disabled my SLI but I have no proof it did or didn't. This could be just my experience.

 

I've recently (9 months of so) installed Left for Dead 2, Borderlands, Cataclysm, and Portal 2. The only reason I even checked my SLI settings is that I saw a forum post about video cards running hot while running SWTOR. So I launched OCCT while SWTOR was playing and noticed that the temp on one video card was 15-20 degrees lower than the other.

[Vaxmand]

There's no problem as long as you have at least a 4 core and good enough parts to go with it. Perfect example being my recent upgrade from 2 to 4 cores, as well as some other much needed upgrades.

 

You need the proper computer to play this without very noticable slowdowns and FPS loss, even on lowest possible settings for this game.

 

So why do I have performance issues playing this game with an 8-core processor and uber RAM and graphics card?

[decampo]

I find the comments from James Ohlen beyond absolute ignorance since everyone I know in game has performance issues in the fleet and in Warzones in particular. My game usually runs at a solid 60FPS until I go to the those areas. Even setting the graphics to low has minimal effect. I played a round on Alderaan WZ earlier and the game was a total sluggish, poorly performing lag fest, with heavy controls and abysmal FPS with stutter and hitching throughout too (also happens in the fleet)! My specs are:

 

Intel Core i5 760 @3.8GHz

8GB Corsair DDR3 1600MHz RAM

AMD Radeon HD5870

Gigabyte UD3 mobo

850 watt Corsair PSU

14 MB broadband line

 

If my system is considered 'low end' then many more are in deep trouble. I'm willing to bet way more than 5% experience issues in the above areas. It makes me think this is the reason why WZ numbers only consist of 8v8, FP 4 and Operations either 8 or 16 players. I have tried Catalyst drivers 11.10, 11.11, 12.1 & 12.1a and the performance issues still persist.

 

I've said often in a number of threads that BF3 runs flawlessly (by that I mean constant 60FPS with high settings) on 64 player maps on my PC. I get better performance in that game even when running it in Ultra mode than SWTOR! Ninety-five per cent aren't having performance issues my ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

James, where and how are you measuring these metrics? Are you sure they're not from another game?

Edited January 10, 2012 by decampo

[Vihazur]

He's using a really old graphics card. You have to take that into account. If he's able to play flawlessly with a shadows tweak on that card, that's not bad at all.

 

Ah, didn't catch what his specs were. I know, lowering settings should help, if you have an older graphics card, low ram, or whatever. I just don't understand the implication that we should all be ok with turning shadows off.

[Holden_Dissent]

HAY GYS I have an alienware fix your game plox

[Cuillin]

Amen.

[DannyInternets]

So why do I have performance issues playing this game with an 8-core processor and uber RAM and graphics card?

 

Same problem here. i7 processor, 8 GB RAM, Windows 7 64-bit, Radeon HD 5870, dedicated sound card and totally garbage performance in populated areas. Drops to 15 fps in the Imperial Fleet even with shadows turned off. The game engine is garbage.

Edited January 10, 2012 by DannyInternets

[Gorgewall]

Bull crap Ohlen. I've lost track of the numbers of players with extremely high-end machines complaining about exactly the problem described in the article.

 

So Bioware's stance is simply going to be to deny the issue exists and foist it off on "low-end machines?" My i7 with 12 gigs of RAM and HD6970 would like a word with you, Mr. Ohlen.

And here we have a sterling example of confirmation bias. Examples of something that a person can see are remembered and used as confirmation of a claim, while anything that runs counter to it (whether it be seen or not) are ignored. This is generally not intentional, but it is something that happens.

 

"There are countless threads from people with high-end systems complaining about performance issues."

There are. As one would expect, people who have an issue tend to complain about it. What you may be glossing over is all the replies inside from people with similar or identical systems saying they have no problems. What you're definitely missing is all of the people with similar or identical systems and no problems who aren't posting because they don't have an issue.

 

Let's try an experiment. Add up all the number of people expressing an issue with performance on high-end systems. Actually go around and count the posts. I'm going to be extreeeeeeeeeeeemely generous and put down 1,000 people as having complained about this on the forums. I doubt 1,000 people have actually done that, but let's just assume that there are 1,000 people who have the issue. Boy, that's a big number. It certainly seems bigger when you're part of it, too. Divide by two million.

 

__1,000__ = 0.05%

2,000,000

 

Less than a percent. Less than half of a percent. Less than a tenth of a percent. One-twentieth of a percent.

 

This may not even be an issue that BioWare has any real control over. Various videocard manufacturers will have to come out with new drivers to support the game, as they do with nearly everything these days. It is generally best to wait or try some beta drivers to see if that improves your performance; many people are reporting good results with the newest batch of beta drivers for ATI cards.

[LogunOne]

Except it has exactly the same issue even if you're staring at a wall/floor with absolutely nothing in view. Yes, it has to load assets, track movements, etc., but plenty of other MMOs with comparable graphics manage that without suffering the same problems when staring at walls/floors.

 

That's the part that highlights the problem with the engine: framerate doesn't seem to be dependent on what's actually being rendered (or, more to the point, what should be being rendered) so much as how many models are in the vicinity.

 

Name one?

 

Your card is making calculation to draw those charaters if your staring at a wall or not in any 3D game. It needs to have that infomation ready the second you spin around, it will be redering that information in memory so the info will be there the nano-second it has to draw the next frame.

[Ruthlessboy]

Go to the combat training quarter (where you can get your PvP daily quest)

Enable your FPS display by hitting Shift+Ctrl+F.

Make a screenshot. Upload it. post it.

 

It's IMPOSSIBLE to have 70-80 FPS at that point. Well, unless there are like 30 people on the whole fleet.

 

You were right, at that EXACT place i did have below 50fps, heres a screen: http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9935/screen1zu.jpg

 

But in comparison, here is my normal FPS in the fleet area: http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4165/screen2dn.jpg

 

I don't mind much if a one spot has less fps than the whole world.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Ruthlessboy

[Gorgewall]

I've said often in a number of threads that BF3 runs flawlessly (by that I mean constant 60FPS with high settings) on 64 player maps on my PC. I get better performance in that game even when running it in Ultra mode than SWTOR! Ninety-five per cent aren't having performance issues my ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Do you recall how poorly BF3 ran when it came out? I'll remind you: it ran very poorly for some systems. It took more than a month for drivers to catch up to the point where every system configuration was running it well on low settings, let alone Ultra. That's par for the course in PC gaming these days.

[DannyInternets]

And here we have a sterling example of confirmation bias. Examples of something that a person can see are remembered and used as confirmation of a claim, while anything that runs counter to it (whether it be seen or not) are ignored. This is generally not intentional, but it is something that happens.

 

"There are countless threads from people with high-end systems complaining about performance issues."

There are. As one would expect, people who have an issue tend to complain about it. What you may be glossing over is all the replies inside from people with similar or identical systems saying they have no problems. What you're definitely missing is all of the people with similar or identical systems and no problems who aren't posting because they don't have an issue.

 

Let's try an experiment. Add up all the number of people expressing an issue with performance on high-end systems. Actually go around and count the posts. I'm going to be extreeeeeeeeeeeemely generous and put down 1,000 people as having complained about this on the forums. I doubt 1,000 people have actually done that, but let's just assume that there are 1,000 people who have the issue. Boy, that's a big number. It certainly seems bigger when you're part of it, too. Divide by two million.

 

__1,000__ = 0.05%

2,000,000

 

Less than a percent. Less than half of a percent. Less than a tenth of a percent. One-twentieth of a percent.

 

This may not even be an issue that BioWare has any real control over. Various videocard manufacturers will have to come out with new drivers to support the game, as they do with nearly everything these days. It is generally best to wait or try some beta drivers to see if that improves your performance; many people are reporting good results with the newest batch of beta drivers for ATI cards.

 

And here we have a sterling example of the authoritarian personality. You automatically assume the authority figure, Bioware, is correct while automatically discounting dissenting opinions.

[Theidan]

I haz a pentium 486 133mhz with 8mb of RAM and I get 100 Fps playing this POS.

 

I gets bad lag playin solitaire tho, them graphics be amazin!!!

[Xzulld]

Its funny to me people are like . . . I spent 5K and its laggy. lol

 

My work was throwing out a couple of old original dual core motherboards IBM lenovos and cpu becuase the drives died and the warranty was up.

 

I have not built a new PC in 7 years so it was time, but finances were tight so this was a good chance to build a pair of computers for me and a friend that might run this game.

 

 

So Two 2.4 Dual core CPU : $0

Two generic IBM mother boards: $0

500W power supplies: $60

Geforce 560TI : $250

 

This netted me a system that runs at max with 40-70 FPS and almost no lag anywhere except fleet and clearly that is server lag.

 

I used my old GFX card for the other one and so it is running a little slower 25-50 FPS with a AMD HD4870

Edited January 10, 2012 by Xzulld

[DannyInternets]

Name one?

 

Your card is making calculation to draw those charaters if your staring at a wall or not in any 3D game. It needs to have that infomation ready the second you spin around, it will be redering that information in memory so the info will be there the nano-second it has to draw the next frame.

 

World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, Final Fantasy XI... to name a few. None of them had this issue. Furthermore, I can confirm that I have also experienced this in SWTOR. Models not being rendered seem to have the curious effect of causing massive slowdowns.

[kingnoobe]

So your immediate response is that BioWare is detached from the community and you completely disregard the possibility that maybe, just maybe, it's TRUE that most players aren't having performance issues? Sounds to me like you'd be upset no matter what BioWare said. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

Um..you're doing it wrong. I pretty much got the same spec (i7 920) although i do have 6970xired but i also play maxed out (including resolution. Which is something like 2560xsomething) and i have no issues.

[DannyInternets]

This netted me a system that runs at max with 40-70 FPS and almost no lag anywhere except fleet and clearly that is server lag.

 

You don't even understand the difference between framerate and latency. Leave this conversation to the adults, please.

Edited January 10, 2012 by DannyInternets

[decampo]

Do you recall how poorly BF3 ran when it came out? I'll remind you: it ran very poorly for some systems. It took more than a month for drivers to catch up to the point where every system configuration was running it well on low settings, let alone Ultra. That's par for the course in PC gaming these days.

 

I realize that some people did have problems with BF3 on release but to be honest, even the BF3 BETA ran better than this game currently in the fleet and in WZs. Also, the general consensus was (read some BF3 reviews for further proof) the game performed rather well on release. There were issues of course which we have to accept, but nowhere near as bad as this!

 

I'm totally willing to give the developers time to fix the issues but I'm not going to say his comments didn't anger when they absolutely did!

Edited January 10, 2012 by decampo

[Logiick]

Bull crap Ohlen. I've lost track of the numbers of players with extremely high-end machines complaining about exactly the problem described in the article.

 

So Bioware's stance is simply going to be to deny the issue exists and foist it off on "low-end machines?" My i7 with 12 gigs of RAM and HD6970 would like a word with you, Mr. Ohlen.

 

Same.

 

I can play FFXIV on high with no lag. And at 1920x1080.

SWTOR on fake high(Which is really medium) at 1440x900, and it skips and lags all over the place.

[juscoo]

Bull crap Ohlen. I've lost track of the numbers of players with extremely high-end machines complaining about exactly the problem described in the article.

 

So Bioware's stance is simply going to be to deny the issue exists and foist it off on "low-end machines?" My i7 with 12 gigs of RAM and HD6970 would like a word with you, Mr. Ohlen.

 

My computer has less and it runs smooth as a babies bottom. Not sure how that's Biowares fault...

[Korrigan]

Same.

 

I can play FFXIV on high with no lag. And at 1920x1080.

SWTOR on fake high(Which is really medium) at 1440x900, and it skips and lags all over the place.

I play SWTOR with everything maxed out, 1920x1080, with no performance issues... go figure.

[Logiick]

There's no problem as long as you have at least a 4 core and good enough parts to go with it. Perfect example being my recent upgrade from 2 to 4 cores, as well as some other much needed upgrades.

 

You need the proper computer to play this without very noticable slowdowns and FPS loss, even on lowest possible settings for this game.

 

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

I'm sitting with the 6 core Thuban/6GBs DDR3 RAM/OC BFG GTX 280.

I'm thinking that if my rig can't play this ****** game at max, it's the company's fault. Cause it sure as hell ain't mine.

 

People can pretend it's people's computers, but with what I play all the time, and have played before, I know that it's the game, and not my computer.

 

Not to mention that this is the only game EVER to make my driver fail/recover over and over and over.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Logiick

[Astralll]

I don't have any problems, whats your point?

 

I am not having any issues. I have 1 desktop, 1 laptop, and even play it on my Imac in bootcamp. Plus I tweak out the ini file.

[Gorgewall]

And here we have a sterling example of the authoritarian personality. You automatically assume the authority figure, Bioware, is correct while automatically discounting dissenting opinions.

No, I'm discounting the dissenting opinions because they smack of ignorance of how drivers work and how just about every recent game launch has gone, be it single-player, online, or MMO. Skyrim, BF3, Arkham City, SWTOR--all large games with some serious performance issues for a small subset of users that were not or could not be caught before release and still took weeks or months to fix. Sometimes these fixes were optimizations on the game's end, and other times they were driver updates for GPUs. That's how it goes.

 

If your system isn't handling SWTOR, regardless of whether or not it should be able to, fiddle with your settings. Lower them. Try new drivers. Wait for fixes. Posting about it doesn't accomplish any of these, nor does it speed the resolution.

[Vikassi]

I play SWTOR with everything maxed out, 1920x1080, with no performance issues... go figure.

 

 

sure you do buddy .. sure you do ..