LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Kurnea]

Blizzard had that many before they added the tool. The game is in decline now because they cater casuals who want to steamroll content.

 

Boring.

 

The game is in decline because it's 7 years old. Name me one other game that's 7 years old and has millions of active monthly subscribers?

[Sargantas]

So let's get this straight, if order for there to not be a lfg tool, finding pugs must be easy. Let's analyze your solution.

 

1) spam chat - everyone on this form agrees this is ineffective and should not ne necessary

 

2) make friends. In order to make in game friends you must form groups with them. Thus you are pugging. Thus you are slamming chat until you build a base group of friends. (I am looking at this from a new player perspective with no RL friends who play, you can't count people who trasnferex together from another mmo because those people made little or no attempt to make new friends in game they already had their base.) Thus for first time players making friends means slamming chat.

 

3) join a guild. 1 many people don't want to (you can't alienate them because they don't conform to how you want) 2 to get into a good guild you must first apply which requires you to know fights, meaning you had to originally pug them (see argument 1 and 2). Lastly you are in a guild and 2 dos want to run a heroic but there are no guild tank/heals available. Thus you must now pug you guild group with 1 or 2.

 

The best thing about random lfg in wow was there was no lockout. Thus tanks/heals were more available for dps. Dos will always be left out of content bc there are not enough tanks/heals to go around.

 

Lfg solves all these problems. Arguing against lfg solves no problems. If you don't want lfg present a solution to finding pugs because I just states how the three current methods fail.

[Liathan]

I was a WoW player since 2006 so I've seen the evolution, here's what it boils down to

 

Natural consequences.

 

Before the LFG tool, finding a group of random strangers to do an instance took a long time. You had to spam trade channel like crazy for sometimes hours at a time. Then after that you all had to head to the location of the dungeon, which took more time since people were busy finishing up last min. things.

 

The good side though.....was that once you got that group, you all generally stuck together through thick and thin because you guys knew that by leaving, you'd have to wait another few hours to find another viable group.

 

When the LFG tool came in, finding a group was made much easier. You no longer had to waste hours in a day to merely find a group. However, as a natural consequence, people became pickier about the groups they ended up in and since they knew that finding a new group was not hard at all, they'd quickly jump ship and abandon the group anytime a small setback occurred.

 

 

So that's what it boils down to....

 

Would you rather wait a long time to assemble a group but have that group last long?

 

Or would you rather get into a group much more quickly but have that group not last long and constantly substitute people in?

 

 

There is 1 solution that resolves all of this though - and it's always been there long before the LFG tool existed.....

 

FRIENDS AND GUILDS

 

Regardless of a tool existing or not, the quickest way to get a group that was satisfying at the same time because it had good people who wouldn't quit on you was to ask your friends/guild. They've always been the most reliable and easiest bunch to get together compared to strangers.

 

This is true with or without an LFG tool present.

 

So my recommendation is to stick with your friends/guilds no matter what, and the LFG tool will not affect to you anyway.

 

Personally I found that in both Vanilla and TBC, there were plenty of times a group fell apart due to it taking to long to find that one last member and that when someone else started forming a second group, people usually jumped ship to it.

 

As for friends and guild, see my previous post about why that's not always a viable solution.

[LordAposno]

This post is interesting too.

 

It shows the real motives of the LFG crowd. They could care less about the content. You're jealous that I have purples..? Really..? If I give them to you will you go away..?

 

I can always get more.

 

Purples are all you guys care about... Popping your queue and rushing in for some easymode loot really makes you feel like you accomplished something..?

 

 

 

Never have, never will care about purples. If I get them, I get them I get them. I am more concerned with experiencing the content. You on the other hand are upset that everyone will have access to the same gear you have after spending hours raiding. Its all about what you get and what you prevent other from attaining. You have turned a LFG tool discussion into a don't nerf my epics discussion.

[Ellisande]

These people are a waste of time.

 

Take my advice and find something more productive to do than watching them deny reality on epic levels to spin what they want and turn the game into WoW 2.

 

I'll take WoW 2 over the WoW 1.0 tools SWTOR currently uses.

[Liathan]

So you're against a LFG tool because it will increase the chances that dipsh*ts will leave your group? Rest assured you have nothing to worry about. The only time a LFG tool has ever actually succeeded in being used when it was implemented after launch is WoW and most of that can probably be attributed to the group being transported to the dungeon (which I assume BW wouldn't do due to cheese factor).

 

In short, people are already using chat, and being that it's more pro-active than using a passive LFG tool, they will continue to use chat - nothing will change if a tool is added.

 

 

There's no need for BW to implement teleportation since we have quick travel, all the FP's are in one area, we have emergency fleet teleport anyways, you can buy additional fleet teleportation passes, and each planet has a shuttle that takes you directly to the FP area.

 

People are using chat because it's the only option since the idea of stick lfg in /who is one of the dumbest ideas ever.

[Taroen]

You're calling everyone who disagree with you antisocial, which is not only childish but completely unfounded. Having or using a LFG tool won't make anyone antisocial, it's just a modern way to make things more convenient for us. If we want to socialize with others, we just open our doors and go outside with real people, not virtual pixels.

 

Because it's inconvenient and abhorent for you to socialize with other players in the game. We get it. You think that it's beneath you and that they aren't real people.

 

They're all just virtual pixels.

 

That's why you can't get groups unless Bioware forms one for you and drops you into one.

 

And YES... You ARE anti-social.

[Orisai]

Blizzard had that many before they added the tool. The game is in decline now because they cater casuals who want to steamroll content.

 

Boring.

 

Casuals keep the game running by funding it.

[Khoranth]

Let me get this straight, rather than adding "its a fact" at the end of your posts, lets try dealing with the actual arguments.

 

Anti-LFG people are afraid that an LFG tool will lead to the dumbing down of content as more pugs get access to the game.

 

Pro-LFG people are afraid that if an LFG tool isn't implemented, they simply won't have access to the game as getting groups takes forever (that fact that it doesn't take forever for you personally is irrelevant)

 

I think Anti - LFG people are making some assumptions here that don't hav any evidence. First they argue that LFG tool will lead to content nerfs as pugs will need to be able to do them. Heres the thing, flashpoint content will always need to be puggable. If flashpoint content is so difficult that only a guild run with voice chat for easy coordination can do it, BW will see a massive drop in Flashpoint parcipation. Flashpoint content needs to be easy enough that a pick up group can do it, otherwise the a ton of people will be barred from the content, decreasing their interest in the game and decreasing revenue for BW.

 

Here's the nuance of the argument that Anti-LFG people arn't getting. Just becasue a flashpoint is easy enough for a pug to complete, doesn't mean its faceroll. It is very possible for pugs to coordinate and complete content if they play well together and know their classes.

 

Here's why the LFG tool is good. LFG won't increase the likelyhood of pugs as most groups now are pugs anyway. When you go to the fleet and spam LFG or "be social" you usually get random people to join your group. As soon as the group is formed, you enter the flashpoint and talk strategy and tactics as you go in order to complete the content. This is how the system works now and flashpoints (with the exception of hardmodes as we are still low on 50s and even the 50s we do have are still getting gear). Right now the content is easy enough for pugs to complete, they just have to be smart about it.

 

Where the anti LFG people err is they assume that if an LFG tool is implemented, this level of coordinated play will decrease. While this is possible, it is by no means garunteed. They tend to quote their WOW experience as clear prove of this. The problem with this line of thinking is that everyone had different experiences using the WOW lfg tool. Some people got placed in horrible groups while others didn't see too many problems. This wide variety of experience makes any absolute claim of group quality from WOW suspect. Personal experience alone is not enough to prove that WOW's LFG lead to worse play and dumbing down of content considering every claim you make can simply be refuted by another who claims their LFG experience was just fine.

 

So here's the bottom line. A LFG will to more people experiencing flashpoint content more often as groups will be easier to form. This is all LFG does. It doesn't actually lead to the dumbing down of content, bad players and minimal coordination do that. In our current system, we still have pug groups that can either perform well or perform poorly. An in-server LFG tool won't change the quality of Pug groups, just the rate in which they occur.

 

From a business standpoint, BW wants to increase subs and maintain those subs. Decreasing the time people spend forming groups and increasing time people spend doing group content will ultimately less boring experience for a lot of players. This will make it more likely the will stay subbing and keep giving BW their money.

 

Therefore, it would be a prudent financial decision to add at least an in server LFG tool.

 

TL;DR - Pugs are pugs whether they are formed with an LFG tool or through the old fashion way. Flashpoints need to be puggable (but not faceroll)or not enough people will do them

 

incorrect. only a small minority of anti LFD care about access.

 

Most anti LFD hate LFD because it removes personal accountability from the game.

[Kurnea]

There's no need for BW to implement teleportation since we have quick travel, all the FP's are in one area, we have emergency fleet teleport anyways, you can buy additional fleet teleportation passes, and each planet has a shuttle that takes you directly to the FP area.

 

People are using chat because it's the only option since the idea of stick lfg in /who is one of the dumbest ideas ever.

 

Agreed, don't need teleportation, don't need any incentives to use it, just need something better than the current /who tool as it is now.

[Orisai]

Because it's inconvenient and abhorent for you to socialize with other players in the game. We get it. You think that it's beneath you and that they aren't real people.

 

They're all just virtual pixels.

 

That's why you can't get groups unless Bioware forms one for you and drops you into one.

 

And YES... You ARE anti-social.

 

Are you virgin?

[Halbe]

incorrect. only a small minority of anti LFD care about access.

 

Most anti LFD hate LFD because it removes personal accountability from the game.

 

If it is single server, this does not matter.

 

Where you have it or not, you still are accessing the same pool of players.

 

Same names. Same guilds. Same accountability.

 

The only change is that how the group is formed.

[Moricthian]

Spamming a chat channel is far from a good way to get a decent group. And it's just as sure a way to fail the content. The only upside to it is that you can see people spamming and know that if you ran with them before, how it all went.

 

Here's the thing Taroen, everyon is spamming chat right now. You argue that spamming chat and LFG tool both lead to failing content (this claim is of course untrue as I've completed a flashpoint with a pug formed by spamming chat as have most everone).

 

Whether or not you believe spamming chat is a good way to form groups is irrelvant because that's how everyone is forming groups right now. Perhaps the masses arn't as skilled at making friends as you are, maybe they arn't as funny or charming as you. Maybe they arn't as likeable as you but for whatever reason, they just spam general chat.

 

So as of now, most everyone is forming groups using a system you don't like. This is the reality of the situation. If they introduce an LFG tool, most people will then form a group using a system you don't like. People who use guilds and friends will still group that way too. So in essence, nothing really changes so stop trying to keep people who arn't as talented as you from experiencing the content. They won't spoil your experience because you only group with your friends anyway.

[TeejayMac]

They just need a channel that you can access no matter where you are. That would solve a lot of the issues with finding a group.

 

If you have to, separate it by level brackets or something so that everyone isn't spamming the same channel all day.

[Halbe]

Agreed, don't need teleportation, don't need any incentives to use it, just need something better than the current /who tool as it is now.

 

Exactly.

 

With a single server LFG tool:

 

1.) Dumbed down content doesn't hold water, as the same population will be doing the content. What, is being bored for 20 minutes your example of difficulty? If you don't have the LFG tool, the same ppl will attempt the content, will fail, and will ask for it to be nerfed. That isn't the LFG tools fault.

 

2.) Personal accountability /Community isn't ruined. Same people. Same things happen if they ninja. Same if they are a jerk. It makes no difference how the group is formed, because it's the same freaking server pool of players.

 

Guess what? I have a LFG tool already! It's queuing for PvP. I know the good players. The bad players. The AFK'ers. THAT'S community.

 

Know how many people I remember from my instances right now?

[Taroen]

Never have, never will care about purples. If I get them, I get them I get them. I am more concerned with experiencing the content. You on the other hand are upset that everyone will have access to the same gear you have after spending hours raiding. Its all about what you get and what you prevent other from attaining. You have turned a LFG tool discussion into a don't nerf my epics discussion.

 

Then why did you display such an obvious jealousy for mine..?

 

You keep coming back to that. I keep telling you that I don't want an easymode lobby game, and you keep claiming that I just want to keep you from getting your purples.

 

I probably do have better gear than you, because even though I'm here on the forums today, I've actually taken the time to build a friends list with people I ran into while levelling, and I found a good guild. I've been able to run all the content. If I can do it, so can you. Many others are doing it. You don't have to turn the game into a complete faceroll to get your goodies. There is a better way.

 

I'd GIVE you my gear outright if I could just make you see that... and even help you get more.

[Moricthian]

incorrect. only a small minority of anti LFD care about access.

 

Most anti LFD hate LFD because it removes personal accountability from the game.

 

I'm responding ot the arguments put forth by anti-lfg people in this thread. You don't speak for the anti-LFD community.

[Kurnea]

Because it's inconvenient and abhorent for you to socialize with other players in the game. We get it. You think that it's beneath you and that they aren't real people.

 

They're all just virtual pixels.

 

That's why you can't get groups unless Bioware forms one for you and drops you into one.

 

And YES... You ARE anti-social.

 

You've made quite the little strawman argument for yourself. Now the reality:

 

People want a tool to make grouping with people easier so they can spend less time spamming general and more time actually playing content with others and talking to them.

 

I mean, take the mere convenience of these forums. Does utilizing this tool make you anti-social? Are you lazy for using a message board? Why don't you go out on the streets and make conversation with random people you see?

 

Plus, haven't you said a few times before that you think LFD is a good idea?

[ThanosTitan]

Lol, you could make max level in less than a week on only the questline, by yourself. Your delusional if you dont think this game was on the casual side to begin with. Edited January 11, 2012 by ThanosTitan

[mSum]

Blizzard always brought out content first in a harder form and then nerfed it later. It was a business model. Make it hard for the hard-core. Let them get their server first kills or whatever and then nerf it so the rest of us can see it.

 

I had no problem with this model.

[jphammack]

If you want friends why not go out in the real world and meet people.

As a semi casual player an LFD tool is necessary. There is nothing wrong with someone that wants to que up while exploreing or doing space battles. I would rather do anything than stand around the imperial fleet spamming for groups or reading chat. That is ridiculous its 2012 and Bioware needs to implement an LFD ASAP. Even though pvp is lacking they at least implemented a war zone que.. Why so...why not screw pvp as well and make pvpers spam for teams in the chat channel!

 

50 SI

19 BH

 

Cancelled 1/9/12

Back to WoW

[Halbe]

Then why did you display such an obvious jealousy for mine..?

 

You keep coming back to that. I keep telling you that I don't want an easymode lobby game, and you keep claiming that I just want to keep you from getting your purples.

 

I probably do have better gear than you, because even though I'm here on the forums today, I've actually taken the time to build a friends list with people I ran into while levelling, and I found a good guild. I've been able to run all the content. If I can do it, so can you. Many others are doing it. You don't have to turn the game into a complete faceroll to get your goodies. There is a better way.

 

I'd GIVE you my gear outright if I could just make you see that... and even help you get more.

 

Easy mode lobby game. We've been over this before.

 

The current model is as such:

 

1.) Person stands in Fleet

2.) Person searches for ppl in LFG

3.) Person whispers asking for group

4.) Person shout sLFG in chat

5.) Person sends companions out for Crafting

6.) Person surfs the GTN

 

All of this can be done with a chat window and 2 other windows open. Hell, turn off my graphics at this point and throw me in IRC. It wouldn't matter. I'm in a lobby.

 

And you think it would get WORSE?

[Kurnea]

Blizzard always brought out content first in a harder form and then nerfed it later. It was a business model. Make it hard for the hard-core. Let them get their server first kills or whatever and then nerf it so the rest of us can see it.

 

I had no problem with this model.

 

Penny-arcade mentioned it about two years ago, http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/08/12

[dakalro]

In server LFD is seriously needed. Choosing between questing and being afk to get a group while leveling isn't a fun option. I'm sure none of you actually remember in server LFD for WoW but that was actually quite nice, the only real problem with it was not getting people to see the world.

 

But in swtor going to an instance means you can't see the world and LFD would help in that direction. So at this point I really see no negative things about a LFD system.

 

To demolish some myths, I leave groups in SWTOR as easilly as I did in WoW. If someone sucks badly I'm not gonna argue and try to get them to leave, I'll just go myself, I don't like trying to point out people's mistakes only to get insulted. It's their choice to not care and I prefer to leave rather than rage.

[Taroen]

Here's the thing Taroen, everyon is spamming chat right now. You argue that spamming chat and LFG tool both lead to failing content (this claim is of course untrue as I've completed a flashpoint with a pug formed by spamming chat as have most everone).

 

Whether or not you believe spamming chat is a good way to form groups is irrelvant because that's how everyone is forming groups right now. Perhaps the masses arn't as skilled at making friends as you are, maybe they arn't as funny or charming as you. Maybe they arn't as likeable as you but for whatever reason, they just spam general chat.

 

So as of now, most everyone is forming groups using a system you don't like. This is the reality of the situation. If they introduce an LFG tool, most people will then form a group using a system you don't like. People who use guilds and friends will still group that way too. So in essence, nothing really changes so stop trying to keep people who arn't as talented as you from experiencing the content. They won't spoil your experience because you only group with your friends anyway.

 

NO. It ISN'T how everyone is forming groups.

 

The very fact that the general spammers are in here crying because they can't get groups should prove that to you. Meanwhile, other people are running the content just fine.

 

That you would make the claim that nothing changes just means that you haven't bothered to read back any, because that has been refuted many times.

 

And if these people spent half the time making contacts in the game as they do here on the forums crying about not getting groups... They wouldn't have a problem.