Crogga Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) No it's not. It's what you want it to be, and that's why you're here advocating for it. I've always been on the fence for a same server tool. I've gone into my reasons here as to why I oppose it. I'm not even going to TOUCH a cross-server tool, because my objections to that are too many to mention. Mark my words, when you throw a random group of people into this stuff, they're going to cry, just like they did with the early Cata heroics, and the content will get hit hard with the nerf bat to satisfy those people who just can't manage to learn their class or cooperate with other people. The "FREE PURPLES NAOW!" crowd have ruined the genre. At least they can try out the content. Right now we can't even get to point A. ANd no the other 'methods' are not working either for many people. You are generalizing again about 'other' people's experiences. It's great that you are happy. Others are not. ANd you have not made a convincing arguement that implementing a tool will harm your good time and not simply help people's bad time. YOu also assume that just because the people are random they are some kind of idiot monsters. I have seen a broad spectrum of people in WOw's LFD. That's why heroics and tougher content always favors guild and friends- you may be more likely to succeed. But not going that route at least gives you the OPTION to see it if you can't get a guild or gather up enough ppl at that time, etc. You are just like all the other anti- LFD arguements I've seen. You try and argue some doomsday scenerio from wow that is simply exagerated beyond all proportion. Nothing original and nothing convincing. Edited January 11, 2012 by Crogga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithInitiate Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) edit: quoted wrong lol.. Edited January 11, 2012 by SithInitiate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So what if they cry? It's not that big of a deal, at least they get to do the content easier. Yay great. Woohoo... So much fun to steamroll everything with no effort or cooperation... what a blast... I am overwhelmed with joy at the prospect. Also, the free purple now comment is kinda silly, nothing wrong with people wanting to play and enjoy the game. Nothing wrong with people wanting to get gear. They still do the dungeon they still put forth the same effort as you do. The only thing changed is that they did it with a handicap of doing it with pugs. They pretty much did the content harder than people who do guild runs. To me they deserve the loot more for having a handicap where a guild run can use team speak and vent to make it even easier. So if we want to talk about who deserves it more... No they're not, the content would take no effort at all, and then I'm stuck with a game that is boring just because people like you want to steamroll to teh loot pinataz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yay great. Woohoo... So much fun to steamroll everything with no effort or cooperation... what a blast... I am overwhelmed with joy at the prospect. No they're not, the content would take no effort at all, and then I'm stuck with a game that is boring just because people like you want to steamroll to teh loot pinataz. The content is already easy, The only thing that is a waste of time is making the group. You can already steam roll through the content. That would not change with a LFG system. What would change is more people getting the loot. That is your main issue right? You dont want everyone to have the same loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So I'm pretty much force to make friends to play content in a game? Sorry, but I'm not the type of ******e who makes friends just for loot in a game. If I like the person we can be friends. If I join a guild, I will use them to better my char, If I make friends with them cool, but for a game to force me to make friends to keep playing the content, Not only do I find it wrong, but I kinda find it offensive. Even in the past mmos you did not have to make friends to do content. You could do pugs, and it was just tough to make groups. Thats the past, and this is now. This mmo will not live in todays market if you cater to the community building players and that is it. That is a fact, based off the past mmos that hit the market. It failed in them, and i'm pretty sure it will fail in this one. And here it is again... The only thing you care about is the loot drop. Other people are a means to an end. If I just make you a new shiny purple everyday will you **** and go away..? Quit trying to make this game even more easymode than it already is. If anything, they should make it more difficult to clear content. Easymode crap isn't fun to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crogga Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Yay great. Woohoo... So much fun to steamroll everything with no effort or cooperation... what a blast... I am overwhelmed with joy at the prospect. No they're not, the content would take no effort at all, and then I'm stuck with a game that is boring just because people like you want to steamroll to teh loot pinataz. Wow isn't like that. Did you ever raid heroic pre-nerf (which they always do before new content arrives) firelands? If you need a challenge I'm sure it will be there in this game too despite having a LFD that allows many more ppl to enjoy the content they paid for. Edited January 11, 2012 by Crogga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithInitiate Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yay great. Woohoo... So much fun to steamroll everything with no effort or cooperation... what a blast... I am overwhelmed with joy at the prospect. No they're not, the content would take no effort at all, and then I'm stuck with a game that is boring just because people like you want to steamroll to teh loot pinataz. wait. so an LFD tool magically takes the difficulty away in heroics?? how? 'well in WoW, once they made the LFG tool, stuff got nerfed..' or maybe its because people whined at the difficulty? you know they can do this without the LFG tool right? i keep saying this over and over.. dont put the blame on the tool.. put the blame where it belongs.. on the community creating the environment in the first place.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So I'm pretty much force to make friends to play content in a game? Sorry, but I'm not the type of ******e who makes friends just for loot in a game. If I like the person we can be friends. If I join a guild, I will use them to better my char, If I make friends with them cool, but for a game to force me to make friends to keep playing the content, Not only do I find it wrong, but I kinda find it offensive. Even in the past mmos you did not have to make friends to do content. You could do pugs, and it was just tough to make groups. Thats the past, and this is now. This mmo will not live in todays market if you cater to the community building players and that is it. That is a fact, based off the past mmos that hit the market. It failed in them, and i'm pretty sure it will fail in this one. Strange... MMOs with LFG systems have seen nothing but sub losses since their implementation. Huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The content is already easy, The only thing that is a waste of time is making the group. You can already steam roll through the content. That would not change with a LFG system. What would change is more people getting the loot. That is your main issue right? You dont want everyone to have the same loot. YOU may think it's easy mode. I guarantee you that random groups of people dropped into the hardmode flashpoints aren't going to agree. But you haven't even cleared the content yourself. You're just going on what someone else told you. They ran guild groups and managed it... Well goollllllllly geee!! And yet you still seem to think a random pug is going to just roll through...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 And here it is again... The only thing you care about is the loot drop. Other people are a means to an end. If I just make you a new shiny purple everyday will you **** and go away..? Quit trying to make this game even more easymode than it already is. If anything, they should make it more difficult to clear content. Easymode crap isn't fun to me. You go back to flaming, but you have not made any points at all. It just seems like you care more about the loot. You want to feel great, having gear that your "buddies" help you get. That you "earned". That is all I get from you. Your logic is so flawed and out of this world, that I can only seem to think that you want to feel special for having hard mode loot without a lfg tool. That is it right? You don't have to make such bad points, over and over again. Just tell the truth. You don't want to see everyone having the same gear as you because you won't feel as special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 wait. so an LFD tool magically takes the difficulty away in heroics?? how? 'well in WoW, once they made the LFG tool, stuff got nerfed..' or maybe its because people whined at the difficulty? you know they can do this without the LFG tool right? i keep saying this over and over.. dont put the blame on the tool.. put the blame where it belongs.. on the community creating the environment in the first place.. You have a good point, but I would counter it by saying that the content would not have been so hard for them if they had formed real groups instead of expecting to steamroll it with random people who aren't cooperating with each other. And that's what the tool fosters. Blizzard made some content harder so people could actually learn to play their class again, and people had a hissy fit because they couldn't just drop in with random noobness and grab the easy epix. The content got nerfed, and not just a little bit. And now there are a bunch of people running around feeling cool in their awesome purples with no idea how to work together with other people or even how to play their own class. When Bioware said that they wanted to push people into socializing and forming an actual community, I smiled. But I knew people would be here crying about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Strange... MMOs with LFG systems have seen nothing but sub losses since their implementation. Huh. When the LFG Queue hit wow the numbers went a all time high. 1) The type who had a guild who did guild runs, who wanted to feel special with the loot they had. Now that everyone could get it. They felt they achieve nothing. 2) The people who got to play the content, got to log on for a few hours a day and do some heroics. The other type of people. The ones who said it ruined the community they don't count, because if the community was good in the first place, It would not have got ruined at all. They are the ones at fault not the tool. Edited January 11, 2012 by Teladis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halbe Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Strange... MMOs with LFG systems have seen nothing but sub losses since their implementation. Huh. He is a troll. Nothing more. He has no facts. He has only unsubstantiated opinions. He has made several derived fallacies based on the LFD tool. He has called content "faceroll" because of LFG tools, but has yet to provide a WoW armory to back this up, provide any other examples of a LFG tool and it's impact on difficulty, or, well, anything else. He tells you the effect, and points at what he thinks is the cause. He won't tell you why, just that it is. For your own sanity, I suggest just leaving the thread. Any semi-intelligent person with a bit of reason can realize that his antics are nothing more than that of a troll. Even the most staunch anti-LFG advocates should be embarrased that this guy is leading the charge. I'll see myself out, because this is a pointless thread. It's funny that he mentions how people need to "Make friends" or "Join a guild", yet he shows the social skills and reasoning of those ppl he mocks. Ironic. Edited January 11, 2012 by Halbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You have a good point, but I would counter it by saying that the content would not have been so hard for them if they had formed real groups instead of expecting to steamroll it with random people who aren't cooperating with each other. And that's what the tool fosters. Blizzard made some content harder so people could actually learn to play their class again, and people had a hissy fit because they couldn't just drop in with random noobness and grab the easy epix. The content got nerfed, and not just a little bit. And now there are a bunch of people running around feeling cool in their awesome purples with no idea how to work together with other people or even how to play their own class. When Bioware said that they wanted to push people into socializing and forming an actual community, I smiled. But I knew people would be here crying about it. Yep. You can only make it as difficult as your weakest link allows. Before LFD, people knew that they either needed to step up to get better gear or they needed to be content with what they had. Then the "entitled" crap started and Blizz nerfed the ever loving rap out of everything save the highest tier raid to appease these people. It made for less of a game and turned the little that was left into a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crogga Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) You have a good point, but I would counter it by saying that the content would not have been so hard for them if they had formed real groups instead of expecting to steamroll it with random people who aren't cooperating with each other. And that's what the tool fosters. Blizzard made some content harder so people could actually learn to play their class again, and people had a hissy fit because they couldn't just drop in with random noobness and grab the easy epix. The content got nerfed, and not just a little bit. And now there are a bunch of people running around feeling cool in their awesome purples with no idea how to work together with other people or even how to play their own class. When Bioware said that they wanted to push people into socializing and forming an actual community, I smiled. But I knew people would be here crying about it. So apparently you never raided heroic firelands. YOu are clumping all the content together in WOW. They scale their content- heroic and normal. This way a broader range of ppl can have access. They also nerf content later across the board when about to introduce new content. Once again you generalize and use scare tactics and false info. And you are coming off more and more as an elitist who doesn't want the 'masses' getting to content either by LFD or any other means. Edited January 11, 2012 by Crogga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You go back to flaming, but you have not made any points at all. It just seems like you care more about the loot. You want to feel great, having gear that your "buddies" help you get. That you "earned". That is all I get from you. Your logic is so flawed and out of this world, that I can only seem to think that you want to feel special for having hard mode loot without a lfg tool. That is it right? You don't have to make such bad points, over and over again. Just tell the truth. You don't want to see everyone having the same gear as you because you won't feel as special. Dude I just offered to give you free loot just to get you to stop trying to dumb down the game into boring faceroll lobby crap. How is it that you interpreted that as me caring more about the loot than the game, especially when you're the one who keeps worrying about whether you get your purples easy..? Try making some sense here, man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanscholo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 LFG tool in my opinion is not needed. If it has to be implemented however it should be within the server not outside. I for one am against any conveniences put into the game that shortcut the social aspect of it. MMO's by definition are social games for good and for bad. Other MMO's have shown that reducing the reliance on the social aspect goes a long way to ruining the experience whilst increasing the effect of being isolated and playing the game only as an exercise in dopamine production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir-Coffee Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This game needs a flashpoint finder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yep. You can only make it as difficult as your weakest link allows. Before LFD, people knew that they either needed to step up to get better gear or they needed to be content with what they had. Then the "entitled" crap started and Blizz nerfed the ever loving rap out of everything save the highest tier raid to appease these people. It made for less of a game and turned the little that was left into a joke. Ya, but at least people could easily do the content. At you could log in and if you wanted to do it. You could set it up. Like it or hate it, wow is still the best mmo. You can hate what blizzard has done, but the things they are doing are light years ahead of any mmos. You have a game like this learning from wow, but wow itself is setting the bars for mmos for years to come. Blizzard did nerf things, but they are learning how to deal with all types of player base. In the next xpack it seems they are taking it the next step higher. No matter if you like or hate wow. The very fact, that they are not scared to try things new and change the way mmos are played makes me respect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 WoW community was dead BEFORE lfg tool- lfg tool had nothing to do with it- your view is skewered! lfg is NEEDED in this game due to heavy instancing of EVERYTHING Yeah it was, then the LFD cross server queue system with heavy handed votekick restrictions empowered the jerks, ninja looters, leechers and AFkers in the community. WHy would you want to empower those people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 He is a troll. Nothing more. He has no facts. He has only unsubstantiated opinions. He has made several derived fallacies based on the LFD tool. He has called content "faceroll" because of LFG tools, but has yet to provide a WoW armory to back this up, provide any other examples of a LFG tool and it's impact on difficulty, or, well, anything else. He tells you the effect, and points at what he thinks is the cause. He won't tell you why, just that it is. For your own sanity, I suggest just leaving the thread. Any semi-intelligent person with a bit of reason can realize that his antics are nothing more than that of a troll. Even the most staunch anti-LFG advocates should be embarrased that this guy is leading the charge. I'll see myself out, because this is a pointless thread. It's funny that he mentions how people need to "Make friends" or "Join a guild", yet he shows the social skills and reasoning of those ppl he mocks. Ironic. If you're talking about me... I get groups... You seem to have a problem doing that, and yet we're playing the same game, as far as I can tell. So... Am I just really lucky..? Or are you going about things the wrong way..? I wonder... Ya know... Whenever I want something, I find someone who has it and ask them how they got it. You can bash on me for what I've said here, but I have something that you don't seem to... which is groups for flashpoints. You can make fun of me or call me stupid, I really don't care... Or you could do what I do and actually run some content. No big deal to me, either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 LFG tool in my opinion is not needed. If it has to be implemented however it should be within the server not outside. I for one am against any conveniences put into the game that shortcut the social aspect of it. MMO's by definition are social games for good and for bad. Other MMO's have shown that reducing the reliance on the social aspect goes a long way to ruining the experience whilst increasing the effect of being isolated and playing the game only as an exercise in dopamine production. Yes because it's a social game spamming tells and asking people to group up. The whole other mmo's have shown that reducing the reliance of the social aspect ruins the game is false. Wow is still going strong and they started this system. Rift still has a good following and they have it. Being force to make "friends" is not what a MMO is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 When the LFG Queue hit wow the numbers went a all time high. There was two types of people who hated it. In todays MMO if you don't have a LFG queue system, you will only be sub par on the market. Sure some games have it and still kinda bleh, but in a game like this one to not have it, not only is it a insult to the fans, it's also a insult to players with limited of time to play. 1) The type who had a guild who did guild runs, who wanted to feel special with the loot they had. Now that everyone could get it. They felt they achieve nothing. 2) The people who got to play the content, got to log on for a few hours a day and do some heroics. The other type of people. The ones who said it ruined the community they don't count, because if the community was good in the first place, It would not have got ruined at all. They are the ones at fault not the tool. False, WoW's numbers have been progressively falling since shortly after WotLK launched. Rift has been dying a slow death for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 yep. You can only make it as difficult as your weakest link allows. Before lfd, people knew that they either needed to step up to get better gear or they needed to be content with what they had. Then the "entitled" crap started and blizz nerfed the ever loving rap out of everything save the highest tier raid to appease these people. It made for less of a game and turned the little that was left into a joke. nailed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yeah it was, then the LFD cross server queue system with heavy handed votekick restrictions empowered the jerks, ninja looters, leechers and AFkers in the community. WHy would you want to empower those people? That is a problem with the community not with the tools. The LFD system does more to help a game over hurting it. We deal with this stuff even without it. So it does not bother me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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