LFG Tool is NOT Needed

[Zhit]

Hopefully BW will look at the game metrics and determine if an LFG tool is needed. ie.If 90% of the players are running 50% of the instances, then there probably isn't a need for an LFG tool. On the other hand, if only 10% of the players are running 25% of the Flashpoints--then it would seem the team should either create an LFG or spend their time developing content that the majority of players will be able to enjoy.

[tarugo]

We need an LFG tool (in server). It takes an hour to form groups, and if one member bails, it is almost impossible to continue.

[savagepotato]

Your argument is basically

 

"I don't like LFD because then People might not play the way I want them to play"

 

That's your own personal problem, not an argument against the LFD.

 

Even with LFD nothing is stopping you from "community interaction". WoW players can still have community interaction even now.

 

No that is not my argument in the least.

 

My argument is that a cross server lfd tool

 

• Marginalizes the multiplayer feel of the game.
  
• Makes dungeons into a drab soulless grinding experience.
  
• Can lead to the dumbing down of the content even further.
  
• Deteriorates the feeling of community on a server because you are grouping with people you will likely never see again.
  
• Promotes rather than discourages negative interaction.
  

[Sargantas]

Final Word!

 

Let’s make everyone happy.

1) BW makes servers that have LFG cross server style

2) BW makes servers that have LFG only within own server

3) BW makes servers that ban the LFG system

 

Now everyone can join the server they want, and I guarantee that type 1 has more players that 2+3 combined and 2 has more players than 3. That means the majority of the gaming community wants LFG and for the survival of a monthly subscription game you must appease the masses. For now LFG within own server would serve a purpose and halt a lot of account cancelations that I see occurring.

Here’s the main arguments against LFG in a nutshell.

 

I was in a top raiding guild in WoW and didn’t need LFG. LFG spat on top raiders by allowing everyone to get gear. I was no longer the most powerful (insert class) on the server because gear is easy to get. I want to be all powerful because I have better friends then the rest of you.

 

Let’s face it on a server there might be say 5 top raiding guilds. Those guilds have max 2 raiding groups. So that’s maybe 100 or so players that get to see end game raiding. On a consistent basis. And that was on WoW with a population 10x what SWTOR is.

 

Even if you are a good player you’re not guaranteed groups. I played a Hunter in WoW and joined the game in when BC launched. On my server I was constantly told by players I ran with that I was one of the most competent/best Hunters they’d ever run with. However I played hunter (most over played class in the game) and every raiding guild already had the “hunter” slot filled. I also didn’t want to do the application process to top guilds just to be #8 hunter in a guild and hope someone no shows for a raid run. LFG allowed me to do a lot more content then I was doing previous.

 

LFG does not ruin top raiders game play, it evens game play gear wise. If you are against a game that lets people get the same gear you have then your motives to void the LFG are selfish and ruin the community and game anyways.

 

Secondly don’t blame the LFG system for the problems in WoW. LFG came into existence when raids and dungeons were made overly easy. Everything basically became tank and spank and people took advantage of being lazy. That had nothing to do with the LFG and everything to do with dungeon designs.

 

One change I would make is don’t give a reward for using LFG. LFG had issues in WoW because people used it for the “reward” you received using LFG. LFG doesn’t need an incentive to be used, let the reward only be getting to go into a dungeon.

 

This post is long so I’m going to cap it with, and I’ve said it before, everyone already uses LFG for PVP. If it’s viable for PVP it is viable for PVE. People ignore the LFG and pre-make groups for PVP, they can do the same for PVE. My want for LFG won’t affect your game play but not implementing will affect my game play. Seems awful selfish from a “community” standpoint to withhold access to something that won’t affect you anyways.

[Liore]

Your argument is basically

 

"I don't like LFD because then People might not play the way I want them to play"

 

That's your own personal problem, not an argument against the LFD.

 

An MMO's community is the problem of everyone who plays it. I mean really, I could just say that not wanting to participate in teamwork is your personal problem, not an argument for a cross-server LFD. Silly, right? So is your post.

[savagepotato]

Final Word!

 

Let’s make everyone happy.

1) BW makes servers that have LFG cross server style

2) BW makes servers that have LFG only within own server

3) BW makes servers that ban the LFG system

 

Now everyone can join the server they want, and I guarantee that type 1 has more players that 2+3 combined and 2 has more players than 3. That means the majority of the gaming community wants LFG and for the survival of a monthly subscription game you must appease the masses. For now LFG within own server would serve a purpose and halt a lot of account cancelations that I see occurring.

Here’s the main arguments against LFG in a nutshell.

 

I was in a top raiding guild in WoW and didn’t need LFG. LFG spat on top raiders by allowing everyone to get gear. I was no longer the most powerful (insert class) on the server because gear is easy to get. I want to be all powerful because I have better friends then the rest of you.

 

Let’s face it on a server there might be say 5 top raiding guilds. Those guilds have max 2 raiding groups. So that’s maybe 100 or so players that get to see end game raiding. On a consistent basis. And that was on WoW with a population 10x what SWTOR is.

 

Even if you are a good player you’re not guaranteed groups. I played a Hunter in WoW and joined the game in when BC launched. On my server I was constantly told by players I ran with that I was one of the most competent/best Hunters they’d ever run with. However I played hunter (most over played class in the game) and every raiding guild already had the “hunter” slot filled. I also didn’t want to do the application process to top guilds just to be #8 hunter in a guild and hope someone no shows for a raid run. LFG allowed me to do a lot more content then I was doing previous.

 

LFG does not ruin top raiders game play, it evens game play gear wise. If you are against a game that lets people get the same gear you have then your motives to void the LFG are selfish and ruin the community and game anyways.

 

Secondly don’t blame the LFG system for the problems in WoW. LFG came into existence when raids and dungeons were made overly easy. Everything basically became tank and spank and people took advantage of being lazy. That had nothing to do with the LFG and everything to do with dungeon designs.

 

One change I would make is don’t give a reward for using LFG. LFG had issues in WoW because people used it for the “reward” you received using LFG. LFG doesn’t need an incentive to be used, let the reward only be getting to go into a dungeon.

 

This post is long so I’m going to cap it with, and I’ve said it before, everyone already uses LFG for PVP. If it’s viable for PVP it is viable for PVE. People ignore the LFG and pre-make groups for PVP, they can do the same for PVE. My want for LFG won’t affect your game play but not implementing will affect my game play. Seems awful selfish from a “community” standpoint to withhold access to something that won’t affect you anyways.

 

The answer to every divisive issue is not to make separate servers, if they did this there would eventually be a million separate servers to cater to every individual preference.

 

There have to be standards and choices must be made. Not everyone can or will be made happy.

[HoneyBoy]

[*]Marginalizes the multiplayer feel of the game.

 

Making grouping more accessible to a wider swathe of people marginalizes the MULTIPLAYER feel?

 

[*]Makes dungeons into a drab soulless grinding experience.

 

Nobody would force you to run and grind dungeons, story quests will still be there. Run flashpoints with your friends.

 

 

[*]Can lead to the dumbing down of the content even further.

 

Slippery Slope

 

[*]Deteriorates the feeling of community on a server because you are grouping with people you will likely never see again.

 

Again nobody would force you to use the tool. Nothing in WoW forces you to use the tool. If a majority of people do use the tool and you can't get a group that just shows you that you're in the minority when it comes to finding the community feeling you're looking for.

 

[*]Promotes rather than discourages negative interaction.

 

It's a tool, it doesn't promote anything besides grouping. If people want to be ******s they will. You just called a guy in this thread a "mongoloid", did the non-existent SWTOR LFD make you do that?

[Zhit]

Folks arguing about WoW's LFG tool do know the tool first tries to build the group out of players all on the server, right? Cross server only comes into play if you are on an underpopulated server. Works fairly well. 80% of the random groups I'm in tend to all be same server folks.

 

But I'm still not sure how cross server versus same server matters for community. I couldn't tell you the names of any of the same server folks I've been randomly grouped with--hard enough to remember my guild mates...

 

To be kicked you have to be pretty bad, pretty abnoxious, or go AFK for an extended period--doesn't matter the server. And by pretty bad, not just lower DPS than the tank--doing stupid stuff that wipes the group kind of bad.

[Taroen]

Final Word!

 

 

Yeah... Somehow I'm guessing it won't be...

[Jederix]

It may not HAVE to... but I guarantee you it will. The moment the forums start getting flooded with people crying about how their random group of people who have never played together and have no coordination can't complete such and such instance and how unfair it is, you're going to see nerfs and it will continue until those people shut up. After all, they pay their $15 a month too and they're entitled... It's the same argument every single time.

 

If you believe that developers make changes according to a bunch of loud mouth crybabies on a general game forum, there really is no hope for you.

[Teladis]

The answer is to make friends? Really?

 

 

 

Friends are not always around when you want to play.

Friends don't always want to do what you want.

 

Todays MMO needs a LFG Tool. If it does not, it won't die, but hey star trek online still is alive and kicking. I'm sure they are not happy with the numbers they have. The same will happen here.

 

 

 

I don't care if you don't have problems, many other people do. I'm not going to spam LFG or tells to people. It's annoying when it happens to me. I don't want to do it to others.

 

 

Every point that has been made about how it kills the community has been proven false. The dev who said it does, is well known for being a moron bigot on the beta forums.

 

The only reason why they don't have one is because they did not have the time to put one in. Well, like the other mmos before it. A mmo that has a crappy end game will never make it. This one will be the same if they dont fix it soon.

 

I'm sure they can fix it way in the future, I mean other mmos took time but they are a lot better now, to bad it's too late for people to come back. Don't make the same mistake bioware. You should have done your home work.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Teladis

[HoneyBoy]

An MMO's community is the problem of everyone who plays it. I mean really, I could just say that not wanting to participate in teamwork is your personal problem, not an argument for a cross-server LFD. Silly, right? So is your post.

 

His problem is that people might no longer play the way he wants them to. That sounds like a rather personal problem to me instead of a gameplay/design one.

[Taroen]

If you believe that developers make changes according to a bunch of loud mouth crybabies on a general game forum, there really is no hope for you.

 

If you believe that they aren't paying attention, there's no hope for you.

 

Dungeon nerfs in Cata were pretty swift after the endless whining about them being too hard. Guess that was just a random coincidence.

[Valishin]

I would like to point out that an LFG Tool and Dungeon Finder are not the same thing. Think more like the LFG function in DDO its simple and easy (KISS)

 

All it would do is let you search the database for people, on your server who are tagged as lfg, to do specific quests or are in a specific level range. The DDO version even went a step further and let you sort based on if their role or in that game's case their class so you could just pull up a list of healers if that is what you needed. Find someone in the list that fits what you need who is advertising as looking for a group then you send them a tell and ask them to join your group. No taking you to cross realm instances or any of that stuff. Just a search tool.

 

 

This would take less than a week to actually design and build then maybe another couple days to properly test. From a programming perspective this would be considered low hanging fruit. It really should be a no brainer and I can't figure out why it wasn't in place before release.

[savagepotato]

Making grouping more accessible to a wider swathe of people marginalizes the MULTIPLAYER feel?

 

 

 

Nobody would force you to run and grind dungeons, story quests will still be there. Run flashpoints with your friends.

 

 

 

 

Slippery Slope

 

 

 

Again nobody would force you to use the tool. Nothing in WoW forces you to use the tool. If a majority of people do use the tool and you can't get a group that just shows you that you're in the minority when it comes to finding the community feeling you're looking for.

 

 

 

It's a tool, it doesn't promote anything besides grouping. If people want to be ******s they will. You just called a guy in this thread a "mongoloid", did the non-existent SWTOR LFD make you do that?

 

 

I'm not sure how many times I have to explain it.

 

It marginalizes the multiplayer aspect BECAUSE the dungeons become faceless bland repeat grinding events.

 

I have been through cross server LFD groups where not a single solitary word is spoken, ever, not one. Can't even remember the name of the people in the group. What was the point of that again?

 

The argument of not being forced to use the tool is quite frankly one I am utterly sick of hearing. It has to be bare none, the most insulting and inane oversimplification and skirting of the issue period. How is it that you cannot see that the effects of it are unavoidable whether you choose to use the tool or not? It is as plain as day.

 

If you introduce something that becomes the defacto standard to the point that the only choice is to pretty much not play the game any longer or use it, and then say "well just don't use it" you are pretty much telling me to get the hell out.

 

The game is one way now, you want to change it to suit your needs at the expense of others who like it how it is. Yet you say they are the ones that are stepping on your toes. No, you are the one that wants to change things, stop playing the victim.

[Taroen]

The answer is to make friends? Really?

 

Friends are not always around when you want to play.

Friends don't always want to do what you want.

 

Yeah... So make more and find ones that DO.

 

And I'm sure that calling the devs who disagree with you bigot morons will go really far to making you sound intelligent.

[Taroen]

I'm not sure how many times I have to explain it.

 

It marginalizes the multiplayer aspect BECAUSE the dungeons become faceless bland repeat grinding events.

 

I have been through cross server LFD groups where not a single solitary word is spoken, ever, not one. Can't even remember the name of the people in the group. What was the point of that again?

 

The argument of not being forced to use the tool is quite frankly one I am utterly sick of hearing. It has to be bare none, the most insulting and inane oversimplification and skirting of the issue period. How is it that you cannot see that the effects of it are unavoidable whether you choose to use the tool or not? It is as plain as day.

 

If you introduce something that becomes the defacto standard to the point that the only choice is to pretty much not play the game any longer or use it, and then say "well just don't use it" you are pretty much telling me to get the hell out.

 

The game is one way now, you want to change it to suit your needs at the expense of others who like it how it is. Yet you say they are the ones that are stepping on your toes. No, you are the one that wants to change things, stop playing the victim.

 

Well said...

[Liore]

His problem is that people might no longer play the way he wants them to. That sounds like a rather personal problem to me instead of a gameplay/design one.

 

Your problem is that you want people to play the way you do (by introducing a cross-server LFG tool). That sounds like a personal problem!

 

See? It's really better to stick to facts or logical deduction rather than just telling people they don't have a right to contribute to a conversation, because that goes both ways.

[HoneyBoy]

Yeah... So make more and find ones that DO.

 

And I'm sure that calling the devs who disagree with you bigot morons will go really far to making you sound intelligent.

 

Form friendships not for the sake of being friends but for using them when the time is right. This is what all good communities are built upon

[Teladis]

I'm not sure how many times I have to explain it.

 

It marginalizes the multiplayer aspect BECAUSE the dungeons become faceless bland repeat grinding events.

 

I have been through cross server LFD groups where not a single solitary word is spoken, ever, not one. Can't even remember the name of the people in the group. What was the point of that again?

 

The argument of not being forced to use the tool is quite frankly one I am utterly sick of hearing. It has to be bare none, the most insulting and inane oversimplification and skirting of the issue period. How is it that you cannot see that the effects of it are unavoidable whether you choose to use the tool or not? It is as plain as day.

 

If you introduce something that becomes the defacto standard to the point that the only choice is to pretty much not play the game any longer or use it, and then say "well just don't use it" you are pretty much telling me to get the hell out.

 

The game is one way now, you want to change it to suit your needs at the expense of others who like it how it is. Yet you say they are the ones that are stepping on your toes. No, you are the one that wants to change things, stop playing the victim.

 

 

So wait the answer is for people to just have nothing to really do?

 

 

The only reason why people argue about lfg queue system is because it devalues the gear they get not making them look as cool . When people have a guild setup to run flash points, they don't want others to run it as well. Why would they? They want to have the gear other people can't get easier.

 

 

It's sad really, but hey...If bioware wants to risk the well being of this game to the people like them go for it.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Teladis

[Halbe]

If you believe that they aren't paying attention, there's no hope for you.

 

Dungeon nerfs in Cata were pretty swift after the endless whining about them being too hard. Guess that was just a random coincidence.

 

Yea, and I'm sure it was all due to the LFD mindest, not the idea that players had the previous tiers content so out-geared that CC was no longer needed.

 

I'm sure it's all because of the way the group was formed, not how the players actually performed in them for the previous year.

[HoneyBoy]

Your problem is that you want people to play the way you do (by introducing a cross-server LFG tool). That sounds like a personal problem!

 

See? It's really better to stick to facts or logical deduction rather than just telling people they don't have a right to contribute to a conversation, because that goes both ways.

 

No I don't, my arguments have been nothing more than:

 

"Add a LFD tool"

 

If I said

 

"Add a LFD tool and make it so it's the only option for people wanting to play"

 

Then yeah you'd have a point, but like I've said in every other post if you don't like the LFD tool you don't have to use it. Those who will and want to can, those who don't can continue on finding groups whatever way they're using now.

 

I also don't know where I ever told him he doesn't have a right to contribute to the conversation.

[Liore]

The only reason why people argue about lfg queue system is because it devalues the gear they get not making them look as cool.

 

I don't care what gear anyone else is wearing. Heck, I barely care about what gear *I* am wearing! Next argument. Or do you have another argument?

[Sargantas]

Your problem is that you want people to play the way you do (by introducing a cross-server LFG tool). That sounds like a personal problem!

 

See? It's really better to stick to facts or logical deduction rather than just telling people they don't have a right to contribute to a conversation, because that goes both ways.

 

Except that implementing a lfg tool has no effect on people who don't want to use it. They will continue not to use it. Not implementing it keeps.it from people who want it thus affecting them. Argument doesn't go both ways. You can chose not to use it if it is in game. You can't use it if its not in game.

[Halbe]

I'm not sure how many times I have to explain it.

 

It marginalizes the multiplayer aspect BECAUSE the dungeons become faceless bland repeat grinding events.

 

I have been through cross server LFD groups where not a single solitary word is spoken, ever, not one. Can't even remember the name of the people in the group. What was the point of that again?

 

The argument of not being forced to use the tool is quite frankly one I am utterly sick of hearing. It has to be bare none, the most insulting and inane oversimplification and skirting of the issue period. How is it that you cannot see that the effects of it are unavoidable whether you choose to use the tool or not? It is as plain as day.

 

If you introduce something that becomes the defacto standard to the point that the only choice is to pretty much not play the game any longer or use it, and then say "well just don't use it" you are pretty much telling me to get the hell out.

 

The game is one way now, you want to change it to suit your needs at the expense of others who like it how it is. Yet you say they are the ones that are stepping on your toes. No, you are the one that wants to change things, stop playing the victim.

 

- Just finished a BT group. Not one word was spoken. All hit spacebar to speed through.

 

- I remember names, could tell you the classes. Ask me tomorrow. I'll forget.

 

- You know what though, I remember the names of people I PvP against. I know guilds (Forever First Blood), players (Knightmare), awful players (I can't spell his name, and I won't throw him under the bus, but he's a Sorc on HyperCannon).

 

I'm pretty sure I've never had to search for a PvP group though....

 

Funny, the de facto standard for PvP group formation provides me with more experiences I remember than PvE groups I've been in.

 

I really hope you don't PvP. You're gonna be pissed.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Halbe