Chelan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I get that it's frustrating to lose a roll on something you really want. It's the nature of an MMO. This game can't have the same ideologies applied to it for looting that other MMOs currently do. The existence of companions, fully-gearable pets whose presence is assumed in the difficulty curve design for the 1-50 content, shifts things considerably. They're part of your character, a part without which you'd have a lot more difficulty. If all you're going to do is group content from 1-50, then it isn't an issue. It isn't an issue at 50th level when the paradigm of the game shifts, though you still require use of your companions during the daily solo quests. You, the player, were in the Flashpoint or Operation, and you the player assisted in downing the boss. You have a right to stake a claim to any loot a boss drops as a result. You don't require other players' permission or approval to roll as you feel appropriate on a given piece of loot. Courtesy likely demands that you ask first, but it's just that: it's a courtesy, not an imperative. There's no social contract in effect unless you personally agree to it. Of course the naysayers, who mostly just want to improve their own personal chances of a given piece of loot going to them as much as possible, are going to pull out scenarios saying this approach will encourage people to roll Need on everything just to vendor it for a few credits, or other such arguments. They aren't incorrect. The presence of companions in this game mandates a much more sensible approach of Roll/Pass for non-class-specific gear; Need Before Greed just doesn't work in this paradigm. Run the instance again. The item will drop again. You have the same chance as everyone else who rolls. Nothing can be more fair. Because SWTOR has the worst community ever and Companion Looters (CLs) are pretty much the proof of that. See, they don't like anyone and pretty much becomes a burden on the rest of the community. If you hate SWTOR and want it to fail, then please be my guest and continue rolling Need for your companions. MMOs are all about cooperation. If you wanted to just play with yourself and your companions then there are better and cheaper single-player games out there. And when you join a group, it is pretty much a given that you are there to cooperate with all these other people towards a common goal. And that extends to the loot because that never would have dropped just for you. It dropped for your group. It did not exist in a vacuum and all of a sudden you just stop cooperating when it comes to the rewards that the group earned. That's just being selfish. When you roll Need for a companion you're saying that noone else in the group matters except you. You're already fighting against the game for these loot with the randomness and now you have to fight against your own team? Who would want to group up in that scenario. I know for me, the existence of Companion Looters have lessened my wanting to keep playing. Or at least grouping up with random people. Not only that but Companion Looters are being short-sighted when they roll Need for their companions. Not only are they cheating their current group out of an immediate performance gain, they are also cheating every group that guy they stole from will ever join. You can't just say that because you helped in the group that everything that drops in it should be yours. You cooperate with others by only rolling Need on what your character can use and Greed for everything else. Not only will you be helping your current group perform better, you are also helping all the groups that guy will join in the future to perform better. And that's pretty much one of the things you can do that will lead to a good community. When everyone pitches in and gives to others rather than being selfish and only thinking of their own advancement. Why even play an MMO if you're not going to participate in the community? Doesn't make a lick of sense. All I'm hearing from this arguments is "What about me? Me? Me?!" When the question should be "What about Us?" It's not like you're never going to see these other people ever again. Some of them you'll be leveling with all the way to the cap. Keep in mind that some people can really hold a grudge. It might not matter in the long run but some feelings can last a lifetime even when the actual reason has long been forgot. Also, if Bioware really wanted companions to be an integral part of your character then they shouldn't have made them count against the total number in a group. A full group would then consist of 8 characters, 4 players and 4 companions. That's the only situation rolling Need for a companion in a full group actually come close to making sense. And even then, priority on players before lousy A.I. who couldn't even run out of AoE if their lives depended on it. Furthermore, for those defending Companion Looter behavior they should be the ones to announce at the start of the group that they roll Need for their companions. Otherwise, they are just thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Given the role that companions play in solo play, it makes perfect sense to roll need for their upgrades. Sorry this bugs you, but that's the way it is. Only way to fix it is to marginalize companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Didn't the anti-LFD crowd promise us that the "community" would self-police and handle this? Therefore, we don't need any special loot rules. We've been assured it won't become a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 if you need it for your comp then you need it, simple as that, if you dont like it dont group with anyone. Your comp is integral to your main so it needs to be equipped same as you do. Get over it or **** off and play something else. Fail. Your companion has no role whatsoever in any flashpoint or Warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reldun Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Given the role that companions play in solo play, it makes perfect sense to roll need for their upgrades. Sorry this bugs you, but that's the way it is. Only way to fix it is to marginalize companions. Except for the fact that you can upgrade your companions with quest rewards that you do solo... when you are actually using your companion. There is no reason to roll need on gear if you are not going to equip it on your character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Except for the fact that you can upgrade your companions with quest rewards that you do solo... when you are actually using your companion. There is no reason to roll need on gear if you are not going to equip it on your character. Companions ARE your character. I am astounded at the majority view in this thread. It's very selfish. I may have to grudgingly adapt, because it completely defies common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Given the role that companions play in solo play, it makes perfect sense to roll need for their upgrades. Sorry this bugs you, but that's the way it is. Only way to fix it is to marginalize companions. This is true. In time folks will come around to seeing this and this issue will not be as big of a problem as people are making it out to be now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugamaniac Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If someone needs on it and I could use it for a companion, I will pass on item every time. If everyone is greeding on it and I can use it for a companion, I ask as quickly as I can if I can need on it for companion before timer expires. This is just common courtesy/decency. RL player needs > my companion needs. People need to leave the bad behavior back in that 'other' game where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It alright with you all if I roll need for Reverse Engineering? I need the materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) If someone needs on it and I could use it for a companion, I will pass on item every time. If everyone is greeding on it and I can use it for a companion, I ask as quickly as I can if I can need on it for companion before timer expires. This is just common courtesy/decency. RL player needs > my companion needs. People need to leave the bad behavior back in that 'other' game where it belongs. This is not "bad behavior". This isn't rolling for an alt, or for an offspec, or trying to ninja gear for reverse engineering or to be a jerk. This is rolling for a definative improvement of your overall character. You can't compare this to the "other game" because I can't even think of one mainstream mmo that has companion characters like they do in this game. It's a completely new paradigm. And you wanna talk about "ettiquette"? For goodnesses sake think outside the darn box. Edited January 10, 2012 by Marlaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formorianman Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Given the role that companions play in solo play, it makes perfect sense to roll need for their upgrades. Sorry this bugs you, but that's the way it is. Only way to fix it is to marginalize companions. Sry I nearly choked when I read this. Companions are marginalized... If you and your companion used the exact same gear would you give the highest level gear to yourself or your companion? Do you spend your money to buy the best upgrades for yourself first or your comapanion? Do you use your comendations to buy gear for yourself first or your companion first? Would you sacrifce your own character's progression so that your companion can be decked out in higher level gear then you are? I think in all cases the answer is that you prioritise yourself over your companion and rightly so. Companions are A.I. and have no place in a flashpoints or operations. Priority goes to player characters not some A.I. pet. If you believe otherwise you should be the one announcing it at the start of every group and see how many people let you stay. If you like solo play then by all means play solo, but don't come into my flashpoints to steal items to make your solo experience better without advising me first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloAtlantis Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is not "bad behavior". This isn't rolling for an alt, or for an offspec, or trying to ninja gear for reverse engineering or to be a jerk. This is rolling for a definative improvement of your overall character. You can't compare this to the "other game" because I can't even think of one mainstream mmo that has companion characters like they do in this game. It's a completely new paradigm. And you wanna talk about "ettiquette"? For goodnesses sake think outside the darn box. Good luck trying to find a group after you're announced to be a ninja on General 24/7 after you try to pull something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reldun Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Sry I nearly choked when I read this. Companions are marginalized... If you and your companion used the exact same gear would you give the highest level gear to yourself or your companion? Do you spend your money to buy the best upgrades for yourself first or your comapanion? Do you use your comendations to buy gear for yourself first or your companion first? Would you sacrifce your own character's progression so that your companion can be decked out in higher level gear then you are? I think in all cases the answer is that you prioritise yourself over your companion and rightly so. Companions are A.I. and have no place in a flashpoints or operations. Priority goes to player characters not some A.I. pet. If you believe otherwise you should be the one announcing it at the start of every group and see how many people let you stay. If you like solo play then by all means play solo, but don't come into my flashpoints to steal items to make your solo experience better without advising me first. Agreed. Using a group dynamic to upgrade something that CAN'T be used in the group dynamic over a player who can is just freakishly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Sry I nearly choked when I read this. Companions are marginalized... If you and your companion used the exact same gear would you give the highest level gear to yourself or your companion? Do you spend your money to buy the best upgrades for yourself first or your comapanion? Do you use your comendations to buy gear for yourself first or your companion first? Would you sacrifce your own character's progression so that your companion can be decked out in higher level gear then you are? I think in all cases the answer is that you prioritise yourself over your companion and rightly so. Companions are A.I. and have no place in a flashpoints or operations. Priority goes to player characters not some A.I. pet. If you believe otherwise you should be the one announcing it at the start of every group and see how many people let you stay. If you like solo play then by all means play solo, but don't come into my flashpoints to steal items to make your solo experience better without advising me first. I would say that during solo leveling play my companion does 35-40% of my overall damage. So yes I will gear myself out first, but that does not at all diminish the need and benefit of appropriately outfitting my companion. Upgrading to a custom blaster on my companion and outfitting it with the best mods for the level made a HUGE difference in my overall DPS. It is naive to underestimate the usefulness of companions in this game. Edited January 10, 2012 by Marlaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Sry I nearly choked when I read this. Companions are marginalized... If you and your companion used the exact same gear would you give the highest level gear to yourself or your companion? Do you spend your money to buy the best upgrades for yourself first or your comapanion? Do you use your comendations to buy gear for yourself first or your companion first? Would you sacrifce your own character's progression so that your companion can be decked out in higher level gear then you are? I think in all cases the answer is that you prioritise yourself over your companion and rightly so. Companions are A.I. and have no place in a flashpoints or operations. Priority goes to player characters not some A.I. pet. If you believe otherwise you should be the one announcing it at the start of every group and see how many people let you stay. If you like solo play then by all means play solo, but don't come into my flashpoints to steal items to make your solo experience better without advising me first. I make no delineation between my char an my pets. Just like with any pet class in other MMO's I take care to make sure they are as strong as can be, because they are part of my class. With this game, BW has gone the extra step and made every class a pet class and allowed them to be geared just like your primary character. But in essence they are as much a part of your character as your blaster or light saber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloAtlantis Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I make no delineation between my char an my pets. Just like with any pet class in other MMO's I take care to make sure they are as strong as can be, because they are part of my class. With this game, BW has gone the extra step and made every class a pet class and allowed them to be geared just like your primary character. But in essence they are as much a part of your character as your blaster or light saber. Then go run the flashpoints with just you and your companion alright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Good luck trying to find a group after you're announced to be a ninja on General 24/7 after you try to pull something like that. Anybody who does that lacks critical thinking skills and is not someone I want to group with anyways. I can easily explain away their ignorance with more intelligent individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Loot rules should be established. Bring it up in the group before the run, even if you are not the leader of the group. If you do not do that then you have no reason to complain. Fortunately my healer can roll need on companion gear and have very little consequence if there is an immature player in the group who starts trouble. Not everyone is so lucky. Edited January 10, 2012 by Aisar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Then go run the flashpoints with just you and your companion alright? Nope. But flashpoints are only a very small percentage of my playtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KippTabor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is not "bad behavior". This isn't rolling for an alt, or for an offspec, or trying to ninja gear for reverse engineering or to be a jerk. This is rolling for a definative improvement of your overall character. You can't compare this to the "other game" because I can't even think of one mainstream mmo that has companion characters like they do in this game. It's a completely new paradigm. And you wanna talk about "ettiquette"? For goodnesses sake think outside the darn box. You're the one outside the box. You put AIs before humans whom you are interacting with. This isn't the single-player RPG you're looking for. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloAtlantis Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Anybody who does that lacks critical thinking skills and is not someone I want to group with anyways. I can easily explain away their ignorance with more intelligent individuals. LOL. Keep trying to "explain away" this foolish notion of yours while everyone in this thread is laughing at you. Please - go ahead, roll need for your companion a few times and see what happens. I'll be eating my popcorn and watching as you try to "explain away their ignorance" while being booted out of the instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KippTabor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Anybody who does that lacks critical thinking skills and is not someone I want to group with anyways. I can easily explain away their ignorance with more intelligent individuals. Hope you're not sitting near any mirrors... /ignored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You're the one outside the box. You put AIs before humans whom you are interacting with. This isn't the single-player RPG you're looking for. That is all. Roughly 75%+ of this game is outside of instance play. Sad that you keep ignoring that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloAtlantis Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Nope. But flashpoints are only a very small percentage of my playtime. Come back and we'll review that number when you're level 50. Edited January 10, 2012 by ApolloAtlantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeseus Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Companion needs would be nice... but they become increasingly obsolete as you gear better at lvl 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts