Scoobings Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Think first guys:.. Step 1. First we separate the 50's into their own bracket (o snaps longer q times) - Story based mmo, o snaps less 50's because alot are in it for the story Step 2. Separate premades and solo (o snaps longer q times) Step 3. Make rated BG's (o snaps longer q times) Step 4. ***** about q times Step 5. ? Profit? Don't get me wrong. I premade stomp all the time. I understand where everybody is comming from. But no separation will be supported by me if it means long q times. Link up servers and this COULD work. But if anybody played WOW. You'll remember how long it took to get a group(over 5) vs group in BG's. It was unbearable. Also where do you draw the line? Is 2 people a group? Is 3 people? or only 4? The only thing this will do, is make me and my teamates q up separately at the exact same time. Which will MOST likely = a bigger premade (right now it only supports 4, although we have 10+ people wanting in) . So all 10 of us q at the same time. It would most likely result in a bigger more unfair group. Thats my 2 cents. The solution is don't form a premade to take advantage of unorganized players and stroke your epeen. If you're having a problem getting ques in a group drop group in que solo. It's what I did in WoW and it's what I'll do in this game when they make this change. It's only a matter of time until they do, too, because an organized team in hutt ball stomps to an unbelievably harder level than I've ever seen in an MMO before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valishin Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This would be really cool if they also added a (solo only) free for all map as that queue's version of Huttball for an all one faction pvp encounter. Would scratch the itch for the fps crowd that is dabbling in an mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermiked Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) The alternative is to have people like myself simply not queue at all. People will only play so many times against such odds that a premade brings to the table. As much fun as it is for you to get to stomp a pug, its exactly not as much fun to face defeat repeatedly. I'm not suggesting changing what is already in place, but only adding an option for players like myself. If it turns out that most of the playerbase moves to the "vs. solo only" queue, then it was for the best anyhow. Noone is keeping solo or premades from using the current system. Lets not get to crazy here. A "premade" is ONLY 4 people. So lets compromise? How about limit group pvp size to 3? Would that suffice? Theres no way you can tell me 2 people = a premade. So 3 seems like a good median. What do people think? @Scoobings - I am in no way trying to stoke my epeen. I don't need to stomp randoms in warzones for that. I have been highly rated in many games I know i'm a good gamer. Thats besides the point and not needed at all in this dicussion. Please be CONSTUCTIVE in your posts. I simply like to play with my friends, its more fun. Edited January 10, 2012 by Mastermiked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The alternative is to have people like myself simply not queue at all. People will only play so many times against such odds that a premade brings to the table. As much fun as it is for you to get to stomp a pug, its exactly not as much fun to face defeat repeatedly. I'm not suggesting changing what is already in place, but only adding an option for players like myself. If it turns out that most of the playerbase moves to the "vs. solo only" queue, then it was for the best anyhow. Noone is keeping solo or premades from using the current system. I'll stop queueing as well once the premades really take over. And because of pending bracket separation and allowing players to choose their warzone, premades will soon completely infest instanced pvp. I expected them to from the beginning and was overjoyed to find myself instead getting into quite a few close games with partial premades or all randoms on both sides. But soon that will come to an end. So I'm just going to enjoy it while I can. I doubt Bioware will address the issue, since no other MMO company ever has. It's very difficult to actually separate premades from pugs because most premade players will do whatever they can to get easy wins, so they find ways into the random queue. That leaves the few premade players who actually want close matches in long queues while the pugs still get rolled. It's sad, it ruins MMO pvp, but I don't know what they can do about it. Especially since it seems we aren't going to have cross server games of any kind. The smaller the population to draw from and the more choices players have, the easier it is to coordinate premades into random queues and the easier it is to avoid other premades in those queues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Lets not get to crazy here. A "premade" is ONLY 4 people. So lets compromise? How about limit group pvp size to 3? Would that suffice? Theres no way you can tell me 2 people = a premade. So 3 seems like a good median. What do people think? I think they should increase the cap to 8 and give you your own que Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilancloud Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hey fellas (Bioware). I've had the chance to check the pvp warzones and they look like fun. TLDR: Please give me the option of queuing up against other solo pvp players just looking to thump some heads in a warzone. I don't mind waiting the extra queue time to partake in some competitive pvp. One thing I've learned: there are some awesome pvp players here. However, when one encounters a group of coordinated premade players, any semblance of competitive fun goes right out the window and right quick. I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity and thrill of working with fellow friends to dominate a pvp match. But ask someone about their favorite sport match-up and they'll almost always have a story that involves two great teams going to head to head. The winner usually so by a narrow margin. Great memories! Back to Swotr pvp... I don't have that awesome team. Yes I could theoretically find a group of players to run with but my circumstances make that much harder than say, a group of RL friends all getting into the game. I know premade players enjoy the way things are and I do not advocate changing their experience. Just add a Queue vs Solo option that puts me up against like-minded players. There really is no valid argument against this. I appreciate your taking a look at this! Agreed, I would really prefer not having to play vs premade groups. Thank you for writing so articulately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermiked Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think they should increase the cap to 8 and give you your own que As i said before. That = nobody groups together becuase of outragious q times. Just like in WOW. Even with cross realm bg's q times for groups over 5 were at 20+ minutes. I'm trying to figure out where people think a fair number is. Is it 2 people in a group? or is that a premade? Is it 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengaro Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The solution is don't form a premade to take advantage of unorganized players and stroke your epeen. If you're having a problem getting ques in a group drop group in que solo. It's what I did in WoW and it's what I'll do in this game when they make this change. It's only a matter of time until they do, too, because an organized team in hutt ball stomps to an unbelievably harder level than I've ever seen in an MMO before. On my server there re maybe 10-20 ppl i see most in warzones, we form no premade, but if 8 of those ppl end up in the same warzone at the same time it's a granted win... now you want to forbid high valor player ending up in the same warzone or what? If you play in a guild you'll form a premade when you play warzones together, maybe you don't use ts, but you will form a group, giving you already a slight advantage over random groups. BUT: It's no fun running with your random guild group with near 0% coordination into a fixed premade... It's like bringing a pig to slaughter.... I like the premade's they force the hole group of headless chicken to at least think a bit or go down real fast... It's quite refreshing when player actually start to play at least a little bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchlessGlory Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Terrible idea, it would require 4 premades, 2 on each side, to even start a match. This would effectively kill all premades queues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Someday some MMO devs somewhere are going to realize that premade and pug pvp are two completely separate styles that should never be pitted against each other. Those devs will create a system from the ground up that actually prevents premades from fighting pugs. But I don't think Bioware will be those devs. If they were going to separate premades from pugs they would have from the beginning. I would love to be wrong on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaviyago Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Is it the premades that are really dominating the warzones, or that premades are typically comprised of groups of level 50s? The latter would ensure that the warzone has a better chance of being populated with more level 50s. If this is the case, then I would suspect that any perceived problems with premade groups would hopefully diminish once the level 50 brackets are created. Let's wait and see before implementing more changes. On a related note - the problem I see right now in warzones is the number of people leaving after seeing premade/guild groups on the opposing side. Dropping out of warzones is inconsiderate to your teammates and an annoyance to the new players that enter a already-in-progress warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 So eventually we will be able to pick which WZ we want to queue for. Picture a hypothetical WZ that is unpopular. Queue times are long because not enough people want to play this WZ. Would you force people to play this WZ instead of the one they wanted to play, just to satisfy the insufficient number of people that did want to play it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Is it the premades that are really dominating the warzones, or that premades are typically comprised of groups of level 50s? The latter would ensure that the warzone has a better chance of being populated with more level 50s. If this is the case, then I would suspect that any perceived problems with premade groups would hopefully diminish once the level 50 brackets are created. Let's wait and see before implementing more changes. On a related note - the problem I see right now in warzones is the number of people leaving after seeing premade/guild groups on the opposing side. Dropping out of warzones is inconsiderate to your teammates and an annoyance to the new players that enter a already-in-progress warzone. It's the premades that use voip that really dominate. Voice communication is so much more effective than typing or no communication. I still don't understand why new MMOs don't offer built in voip for players. While we'd need the ability to mute the idiots, we solo players would do much better against premades if we could hear each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermiked Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Someday some MMO devs somewhere are going to realize that premade and pug pvp are two completely separate styles that should never be pitted against each other. Those devs will create a system from the ground up that actually prevents premades from fighting pugs. But I don't think Bioware will be those devs. If they were going to separate premades from pugs they would have from the beginning. I would love to be wrong on this one. Sooo soooo niave..... Everybody knows this. Its a ballancing act between letting people play together and keeping q times resonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerr Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 look at the repercussions that would bring.. Empire would have either seriously slow pvp queues and/or they would play hutball 100% of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Sooo soooo niave..... Everybody knows this. Its a ballancing act between letting people play together and keeping q times resonable. I'm aware of the balance issue in regard to queue times. One reason I don't think Bioware will address the issue is because we don't have cross server pvp, which of course reduces the pool of pvpers to draw from. However, it isn't just about balancing. It's about premade players synch-queuing their way into solo games. It happens in WoW, it happens in Rift. If Bioware devs did tackle this issue, they would have to find a way to prevent synch-queuing. That's not about balance, it's about exploit prevention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengaro Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Someday some MMO devs somewhere are going to realize that premade and pug pvp are two completely separate styles that should never be pitted against each other. Those devs will create a system from the ground up that actually prevents premades from fighting pugs. But I don't think Bioware will be those devs. If they were going to separate premades from pugs they would have from the beginning. I would love to be wrong on this one. that actually exists since 2005 (?) or whenever gw launched.... I'm aware of the balance issue in regard to queue times. One reason I don't think Bioware will address the issue is because we don't have cross server pvp, which of course reduces the pool of pvpers to draw from. However, it isn't just about balancing. It's about premade players synch-queuing their way into solo games. It happens in WoW, it happens in Rift. If Bioware devs did tackle this issue, they would have to find a way to prevent synch-queuing. That's not about balance, it's about exploit prevention. As if a srs premade would actually care if they face a premade or a random group.... most likely they will be pissed if they face a random group because it's too ease - if they're aiming for random group they're just a bunch of good geared noobs getting spancked by any srs premade.... (and yes i rmbr some cases in war premades actually trying to catch opponent premades who wanted to spank random groups - it ended in a bloody slaughter for the ones heading for ease kills...) trust your players a bit more.... Edited January 10, 2012 by Kengaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 that actually exists since 2005 (?) or whenever gw launched.... As if a srs premade would actually care if they face a premade or a random group.... most likely they will be pissed if they face a random group because it's too ease - if they're aiming for random group they're just a bunch of good geared noobs getting spancked by any srs premade.... (and yes i rmbr some cases in war premades actually trying to catch opponent premades who wanted to spank random groups it ended in a bloody slaughter for the ones heading for ease kills...) Serious premades don't want to face pugs, no. But scrub premades who only think about winning faster to gear up faster prefer to fight pugs. And in my experience the vast majority of premades are gear whoring scrubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengaro Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Serious premades don't want to face pugs, no. But scrub premades who only think about winning faster to gear up faster prefer to fight pugs. And in my experience the vast majority of premades are gear whoring scrubs. they ll get pawned just give your guys some time.... like i said premades love it to flatten "premades" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrii Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Ive seen a few matches on my server where premades often 5 or more from 1 guild, in huttball or voidstar just didnt "score" the final point since a fast win in either of those will actually hurt you valor and com wise...if you are trying to gear up fast. So they just stood at spawn waiting and farming.... Edited January 10, 2012 by Lrii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ive seen a few matches on my server where premades often 5 or more from 1 guild, in huttball or voidstar just didnt "score" the final point since a fast win in either of those will actually hurt you valor and com wise...if you are trying to gear up fast. So they just stood at spawn waiting and farming.... Which is faster than taking the chance of losing a match. Premades vs pugs are an efficient means of gearing up. For the premades, that is. And premades who gear up to fight other premades are rare. I guess it's psychological. They feel good when they win, even if they're winning against people who are no real competition for them, and they feel bad when they lose even when it was a close, fun game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aega Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 As I suspected, the main voices of dissent support relegating solo players to suffer premades [Read: No Fun PvP for You] so that those premades will not have to be bothered waiting for like-minded combatants. Again, the concern is only about "I do not want to have to wait" instead of "make fun competitive pvp a viable option for all play styles". It boggles me how people have no qualms about not allowing players a voluntary alternative because their looking after number 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazguapo Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Why should Bioware cater to the solo player? The foundation of any MMO is player interaction. A group of 4 people working together well should be rewarded, and it is any flashpoint or heroic quest, should that not carry over into PVP? I assume you wouldn't also complain that it's too hard to find groups for Flashpoints, and so Bioware should just make them easier, so you can solo them with your companions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talkative Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Idea is great, but it is endlessly amusing to pug up against a full premade and clean their clocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajpilar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 if your a pug and tired of getting rolled by premades then I guess you have an incentive to socialize and join a pvp guild, nevermind this is a single player game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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