Taugrim's Guide to Trooper Vanguard Mechanics and PVP

[Therealkoop]

I find that a heavy shield spec has the lowest dmg and the worst ammo regen unless you take the final talent.

 

half tactics and half assault for me, if im not playing full assault. Ionic accelerator just seems to add an incredible amount of burst and sustained damage with its ammo generation. I cant drop it and when I do I feel super, super weak.

[taugrimtaugrim]

I find that a heavy shield spec has the lowest dmg and the worst ammo regen unless you take the final talent.

 

It would be imbalanced if the tank spec delivered the most damage.

 

half tactics and half assault for me, if im not playing full assault. Ionic accelerator just seems to add an incredible amount of burst and sustained damage with its ammo generation. I cant drop it and when I do I feel super, super weak.

 

Understood.

 

The main issue for me is that I want to find a well-rounded spec that has Guard capability, good CC, and solid DPS.

[Psionic_X]

hey taugrim. i watched a lot of your beta videos before i started this game and they helped deciding on what i want to play.

just wanted to say thanks and keep up the good work!

 

ps: sweltering heat is a 50% snare, not 100%

[elithrar]

Nice work, Taugrim. Your PvP specs look solid; I agree RE: Counterattack being bad value too. If it had secondary benefit (more +def, or +shield/absorb) than the 3.8% or so mitigation it has now (for 5 points) it'd be worth another look. Energy Blast's sluggish animation also hurts it.

 

I run a deep Shield (to Storm) + Gut spec that's very effective. Gut is absolutely fantastic for node defense since the long DoT interrupts caps in Alderaan & VS. Wouldn't run without it.

 

As for PvE: 31/8/2 seems the logical spec to me. Get Power Armor and the DR talents, get Energy Blast (good in PvE), and Stockstrike +dmg from Assault. Maximise DR and your key threat gen abilities.

Edited January 10, 2012 by elithrar

[slwight]

For the Shield spec, does the speed increase from Charge! provide greater benefit than picking up 2/2 Power Armor for 2% total damage decrease?

 

How much survivability do you get from the Shield spec compared to an Assault/Tactics spec? Enough to make up for the "weaker" DPS?

 

I'm only level 25, so just looking for some experienced players input.

 

Thanks!

[taugrimtaugrim]

ps: sweltering heat is a 50% snare, not 100%

 

Woops, fixed, thanks

 

I run a deep Shield (to Storm) + Gut spec that's very effective. Gut is absolutely fantastic for node defense since the long DoT interrupts caps in Alderaan & VS. Wouldn't run without it.

 

Yea I'm going to add the note re: taking Gut for the DoT effect for node defense. Thanks!

 

As for PvE: 31/8/2 seems the logical spec to me. Get Power Armor and the DR talents, get Energy Blast (good in PvE), and Stockstrike +dmg from Assault. Maximise DR and your key threat gen abilities.

 

Good info.

 

For the Shield spec, does the speed increase from Charge! provide greater benefit than picking up 2/2 Power Armor for 2% total damage decrease?

 

How much survivability do you get from the Shield spec compared to an Assault/Tactics spec? Enough to make up for the "weaker" DPS?

 

The speed increase provides utility, that's the main reason to take it. How you leverage that speed is situational.

 

Shield Spec doesn't boost survivability as much as you might think, as I wrote in the Defense Mechanics. Shield only works against limited types of damage.

[Saprezzan]

The main issue for me is that I want to find a well-rounded spec that has Guard capability, good CC, and solid DPS.

 

I'm trying to find the same thing e.g. a trooper fighting in a tanking stance, but with a very respectable DPS. Do let us know if/when you find that Holy Grail

[taugrimtaugrim]

Shield Spec doesn't boost survivability as much as you might think, as I wrote in the Defense Mechanics. Shield only works against limited types of damage.

 

Let me clarify that, based on an awesome post in my Guide thread over on the PT forum:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=154123&page=6

Hi. I read through your guide and it was quite comprehensive. I just wanted to comment on one thing. I actually stumbled upon your blog while investigating this myself. You posted that you cannot shield kinetic or elemental damage, but can only shield weapon damage attacks. This isn't quite how shielding works. In fact, "weapon damage" attacks are not even a real type of damage. They just do whatever type of damage your weapon says it does, such as energy for lightsabers or kinetic for vibroblades.

 

There are four types of attack (Force, melee, ranged, and tech) and four types of damage (elemental, energy, internal, and kinetic). You can avoid and shield melee and ranged attacks, not Force or tech ones. If you look at the dueling experiments in your blog, all of the attacks that were never shielded were Force or tech attacks. The damage type does not actually have anything to do with shielding, only if armor or Mark of Power applies.

 

This explains the behavior of the mechanics.

 

The implication is that our talents in the Shield Tech tree provide value against "non-spell" types of attacks whereas "spell" types of attacks are not avoidable or blockable (shieldable), but the weapon-based ones are.

 

This is consistent with how block in other games works, such as WoW and RIFT.

 

The consideration for SWTOR is that there are quite a number of Tech based attacks.

 

So this may affect choices around investing in the raw 2% mitigation talents vs the Defense / Shield ones. YMMV.

Edited January 10, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[taugrimtaugrim]

I'm trying to find the same thing e.g. a trooper fighting in a tanking stance, but with a very respectable DPS. Do let us know if/when you find that Holy Grail

 

Some folks use the 21/2/18 build to be a guard-tank that can DPS.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Per Kollbjorn's insightful post on the mirror PT Guide thread, I have revised the Defense Mechanics section of the Guide accordingly:

 

The important thing to understand are which types of attacks are Avoidable and Shieldable and which are not. There are 4 types of attacks: Force, Melee, Ranged, and Tech. Melee and Ranged types are Avoidable and Shieldable, whereas Force and Tech attacks are not. This is consistent with other games such as WoW and RIFT, where "spell" attacks are not dodgeable / parryable and not blockable. That being said, the main consideration for SWTOR is that all classes have either Force or Tech attacks. Therefore, you may not get as much mileage out of your Avoidance and Shield-related talents as you might expect. E.g. the melee stun and melee attack for the Imperial Agent (Smuggler) class are Tech and therefore given sufficient accuracy will always hit.

[Taunque]

I don't quite understand this. Melee attacks with weapons are considered weapon damage, no? Why would every melee attack from IA be considered tech and therefore unmitigated by shields?

[taugrimtaugrim]

I don't quite understand this. Melee attacks with weapons are considered weapon damage, no? Why would every melee attack from IA be considered tech and therefore unmitigated by shields?

 

I'm not talking about every attack, I'm talking about abilities such as Blaster Whip that because they are classified as Tech can't be avoided or shielded.

[Nond]

Great post been following you since Rift. I play on a PVP server..not that I've seen a whole lot of PVP while doing PVE but do you recommend following your PVP specs while on a PVP server for doing PVE? I know your PVE section is TBD but I was just curious on your insight.

[Lilrys]

I'm trying to find the same thing e.g. a trooper fighting in a tanking stance, but with a very respectable DPS. Do let us know if/when you find that Holy Grail

 

I've been having a lot of luck running a full Tactics spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801RRMMZMsrrobfkds.1 with Ion cell. It may seem counter intuitive, but with the way shielding/dodgeing works at the moment you get more deffence from shock absorbers, then from the entire shield tree.

 

Granted i've only been running it for 24 hours (thanks to this thread and one other) But i've pretty much doubled my damage and lost none of the suviverbility, might even have gained a bit since dead enemies don't deal damage (I've also dropped shield from most of my gear, and even switched out the shield gen, with a normal gen) this is ofc for pvp.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Filled in the DPS Rotation section of the Guide.

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/

 

I decided to break up the section depending on whether you have 18+ points in Assault Spec, and then looking at Shield Spec and Tactics separately.

 

Let me know if you have feedback.

 

I may need to find a more visual way of representing this.

 

I've been having a lot of luck running a full Tactics spec http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801RRMMZMsrrobfkds.1 with Ion cell. It may seem counter intuitive, but with the way shielding/dodgeing works at the moment you get more deffence from shock absorbers, then from the entire shield tree.

 

Granted i've only been running it for 24 hours (thanks to this thread and one other) But i've pretty much doubled my damage and lost none of the suviverbility, might even have gained a bit since dead enemies don't deal damage (I've also dropped shield from most of my gear, and even switched out the shield gen, with a normal gen) this is ofc for pvp.

 

Thanks for sharing that build and feedback!

Edited January 13, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[taugrimtaugrim]

Made a bunch of updates to the Guide:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/

 

• Talent Tree Analysis section - updated take on talents based on more testing with various specs
  
• Specs section - yes Carolina Parakeet is now there, added some more, and tweaked existing ones
  
• Stats and Gear section - added Gear tiers for PVP, added DPS sections for stat priorities
  
• Defense Mechanics section - updated with more information on how the Avoidance and Mitigation mechanics work
  
• DPS Rotation section - broke this up into 3 parts, depending whether you have 18+ points in Pyrotech (Assault Spec), and if no, whether you are favoring the tank or middle tree in terms of talent points
  

 

 

Also, if you haven't already seen the article I posted today on Understanding the Avoidance and Mitigation Mechanics for Tanks in PVP, I highly recommend you read it:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

[taugrimtaugrim]

Updated the Guide per feedback from the Powertech forum, in particular re: Rotation section for tank specs with < 18 points in Assault Spec:

Single-Target Rotation for Shield Tech (Shield Specialist) with < 18 points in Pyrotech (Assault Specialist)

 

The key single-target damaging ability for this spec is Rocket Punch (Stockstrike), thanks to the 30% Crit Chance and 30% Crit damage bonus. Note that you also can reset the cooldown for Rocket Punch (Stockstrike) when you Shield. Therefore, you want to use Rocket Punch (Stockstrike) as soon as possible.

 

Aside from Rocket Punch (Stockstrike), you want to use Rail Shot (High Impact Bolt) whenever you are outside melee range, to get the 15-sec cooldown ticking.

 

Aside from those abilities, here is the rotation:

1. From range, Explosive Dart (Sticky Grenade)
   
2. While closing to melee range, Rail Shot (High Impact Bolt) if possible, Rapid Shots (Hammer Shot) if not
   
3. As soon as you close to melee range, Rocket Punch (Stockstrike) and when that’s on cooldown, Heat Blast (Energy Blast) and Flame Burst (Ion Pulse) until you can Rocket Punch (Stockstrike) again
   
4. Rinse and repeat
   

If you have Retractable Blade (Gut), in general you want to use Rocket Punch (Stockstrike) first, so that you have the opportunity to reset the cooldown of Rocket Punch (Stockstrike) via the Flame Shield (Static Shield) talent.

Edited January 21, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[Daximus]

Thanks Taugrim! Just started playing SWTOR and your guides/videos have helped a TON coming into the game. Keep up the GREAT work!

[darkwingduk]

Hi folks,

 

The initial near-complete draft of my Guide has been published:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/

 

Table of Contents

1. Advanced Class Overview and Playstyle
   
2. Talent Tree and Stance Overview
   
3. Talent Tree and Stance Pairings
   
4. Talent Tree Analysis
   
5. Heat (Ammo) Mechanics
   
6. Damage Mechanics
   
7. Defense Mechanics
   
8. Crowd Control and Debuff Mechanics
   
9. Mobility and CC Counter Mechanics
   
10. Global Cooldown Management and Rotation
    
11. Recommended Specs
    
12. Stats and Mods
    
13. Narrated Gameplay Videos
    
14. About the Author
    

 

Let me know your feedback / questions, either here or on my blog.

 

I'll be updating it multiple times a week on my blog, you can find out about updates by checking the Guide article or reading my tweets. As the Guide "stabilizes" I may post a copy here in full.

 

Look forward to dialoguing with you!

 

Cheers,

Taugrim

 

Hey man thnx for the vid and love all your other class videos... any chance you can make a scoundrel / scrapper video ?

 

ps: This needs to be stickied

Edited January 21, 2012 by darkwingduk

[Daximus]

 

ps: This needs to be stickied

 

 

This x1000

 

[clocknane]

Thank you for posting a vanguard/P-Tech guide Taugrim. Unfortunately, I play a Gunnery spec'd trooper. When can we expect a guide specifically tailored to that adv class/spec?

[Necksbro]

Please Sticky

[taugrimtaugrim]

Thank you for posting a vanguard/P-Tech guide Taugrim. Unfortunately, I play a Gunnery spec'd trooper. When can we expect a guide specifically tailored to that adv class/spec?

 

My next Guide will be for Sentinel / Marauder.

[taugrimtaugrim]

Added a level 50 PVP Spec Guide video.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/

[Freakzooi]

Great guide taugrim, you really made me think about my spec for pvp. Regarding that, I have two questions about your pvp build for a shield/tactics vanguard.

 

The first question I have is regarding smoke bomb. Having read up on the defence/avoidance mechanics for PVP, wouldn't that make smoke bomb relatively useless in pvp as well? Since the ability debuffs the accuracy of ranged and melee attacks, wouldn't that just affect auto-attack abilities mostly? And therefore be a waste of a point?

 

Secondly, I personally prefer to spec into 4% extra dmg reduction through Ion Shield and Power Amor, dropping Charge and Tactical tools for it. This is because I find a movement boost after storm situational at best, since I generally want to be in melee range for a stockstrike immediately after. Besides, I will be slowed mostly anyway, so I won't be getting the full benefit of the movement increase. Also, while tactical tools seems nice in theory, in practise I rarely come across instances where I want to use Ion Pulse in pvp and it's on cooldown. The only real benefit would be -10 secs off the cd of harpoon, which can be nice in huttball, but I'd prefer the extra 2% dm reduction there.

 

My spec would be something like this (having one point spare I got from smoke bomb):

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGb0RroMZMsrboZb.1

 

So, TLDR, you think getting 4% extra dmg reduction is worth dropping situational utility? And is smoke bomb worth the point?

 

Thanks!

Edited January 23, 2012 by Freakzooi