Mordegar Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Iron Fist is by far my favorite tank hybrid spec so far, the damage that stock strike does is awesome cause it'll almost always crit. It's a pimped up 31/8/2 spec with more damage and interrupts coming from the tactics tree. Edited January 28, 2012 by Mordegar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necodreus Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Awesome vids and posts thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPorkins Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 whats the 1,22,18 spec, or 0,23,18 spec for vanguards. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 whats the 1,22,18 spec, or 0,23,18 spec for vanguards. Link? See Section 11 in the Guide: http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#specs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesrik Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Vanguard needs to be within 10m of the target to deal meaningful sustained damage. This applies to Assault Spec too, even though it has the best ranged mechanics of the 3 trees. Why? Ionic Accelerator only procs with use of our 10m and 4m attacks. You can burst almost as hard at 30 meters as you can at at melee. When that pesky healer runs back towards his team, you don't absolutely have to chase him to finish. You can pop CDs and do 2x 4k+ crits to him from 30 meters in the same global. No, we don't have mobility tools like Guardian Leap or Force Speed to get to safety. With smart play, however, we won't be in a bad position to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Added PVE specs to the Guide:http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/ To answer a question I've been getting a lot: yes, you can run my "Iron Fist" PVP tank spec in PVE for Flashpoints in Hard Mode. I just started running HM Flashpoints in the past week, since I skipped Flashpoints until end-game. Went straight to HM lol. Running a PVP tank spec for PVE is not optimal obviously, but it works and keeps your re-spec costs down. Just try to get some PVE tanking gear to help out your healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husofanten Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Where is the sticky btw? Your 2 threads should be on the top man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerinth Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Hey Taugrim,I've been reading over your stuff, and I really appreciate all of the good info and research. I think I saw on your blog that you prefer to level up in the Tactics tree. Do you aim for something like your 8/31/2 build and prioritize getting up to 31 in the Tactics tree first? Also, what companion do you typically run with? I'm leveling a 23 Vanguard and have been going Shield spec so far, but with the passive movement speed and the Hold the Line talent in Tactics I could see how that could be a fast leveling spec. Any info is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Where is the sticky btw? Your 2 threads should be on the top man. Hopefully this Guide thread will be stickied on this Vanguard forum. My mirror Guide thread over on the Powertech forum was stickied sometime in the last 24 hrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Hey Taugrim, I've been reading over your stuff, and I really appreciate all of the good info and research. I think I saw on your blog that you prefer to level up in the Tactics tree. You can level up via any of the 3 trees, they're all viable and it just depends on what experience you want from a playstyle. I leveled up in Tactics because of the excellent low-hanging fruit in the lower tiers of the tree. But you can run Assault Spec or Shield as well. Like I said, it depends on what behavior you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) EDIT: the Community Managers already removed the troll post. Thanks! Edited February 4, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Where is the sticky btw? Your 2 threads should be on the top man. If people believe these threads are good content, please 5-star them. It may help BioWare see the value of them. FWIW, the mirror thread over in the PT forum is stickied. But the problem is a lot of VGs aren't reading that forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Also, what companion do you typically run with? I missed this part of your question earlier. Always the healer (Elara). She can DPS when you don't need healing. And the healing is awesome against tough mobs or during accidental pulls of adds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Added a decision tree to my Guide for which 4-pc set to go after:http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#pvp-gear Edited February 5, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPianoMan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Taugrim, I know you don't like the thought of putting 31 talents in shield spec, but the 31/8/2 Yojack build definitively has merit. Especially for someone who wants 1 build for both pvp and pve. You may want to consider adding it to your list. Build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GoGrdoroTzZMsbZb.1 Yojack's thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=2770 See you around AP! ~Jalad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Taugrim, I know you don't like the thought of putting 31 talents in shield spec, but the 31/8/2 Yojack build definitively has merit. Especially for someone who wants 1 build for both pvp and pve. You may want to consider adding it to your list. It's not that I don't think 31 points in the tank tree doesn't have a place - it clearly does for PVE tanking - but for PVP that means you are putting points in weak talents instead of putting them in talents that provide meaningful PVP value. Especiallly the craptastic Shield-boost talents. As for listing a tank spec for PVE and PVP, I'm going to hold off until I've had more hands-on experience with HM Flashpoint and Ops tanking. In the past week or so I've tanked 6 of the 7 Hard Mode flashpoints in my PVP tank spec (25/14/2) with as much +Defense and +Shield gear equipped as I have. The SWTOR HMs are more about understanding the fight and executing than the sheer gear/spec check I experienced as a main tank in other games such as WoW and WAR. So my initial impression is: - if you use a PVP tank spec, you'll get excellent performance in PVP and adequate performance in PVE - if you use a PVE tank spec, you'll get weak performance in PVP and excellent performance in PVE Edited February 5, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPianoMan Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 So my initial impression is: - if you use a PVP tank spec, you'll get excellent performance in PVP and adequate performance in PVE - if you use a PVE tank spec, you'll get weak performance in PVP and excellent performance in PVE I respect your opinion, but I disagree that any spec with 31 in shield tree should automatically be labeled a PVE spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) I respect your opinion, but I disagree that any spec with 31 in shield tree should automatically be labeled a PVE spec. Then you aren't very bright. Energy Blast has a super long animation time, provides no meaningful damage, and gives you ammo which you really don't need. There's no reasonable situation in which that skill is worth a even GCD. The bonus shield chance should be obvious for why it's not good in PvP. If the other team has any competence at all, their weapon-based DPSers are attacking your guarded teammate more than you, making bonus shield chance almost worthless. Even at an "ideal" 50% absorption, 10% shield chance gives you only 5% HEAVILY CONDITIONAL mitigation. Edited February 6, 2012 by Rogmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 The bonus shield chance should be obvious for why it's not good in PvP. If the other team has any competence at all, their weapon-based DPSers are attacking your guarded teammate more than you, making bonus shield chance almost worthless. Even at an "ideal" 50% absorption, 10% shield chance gives you only 5% HEAVILY CONDITIONAL mitigation. That is indeed the issue. Smart opponents will not focus fire a tank, particularly if the tank is very tanky, if there are healers or squishier targets available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPianoMan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) That is indeed the issue. Smart opponents will not focus fire a tank, particularly if the tank is very tanky, if there are healers or squishier targets available. When guarding a door/node or carrying the ball, you will get focused. In theory you may be right, but in practice I find you will be able to force people to focus you in objective based pvp. Also, if you are using as much ammo as possible, energy blast will make a difference in your overall long term dps. If you never die during a WZ (common for me with this spec) then you will constantly be attacking. With energy blast and my 2 ammo CDs I rarely have to use Hammer Shot because I always have ammo for better abilities. I've also been called unkillable by many Imp and Rep players alike. p.s. Calling me "not very bright" does not add any credibility to your opinion, Rogmar. Edit: I'm not trying to argue that the build is better than any other build for for pvp; I just think the Yojak build is strong enough in pvp to deserve credit as a viable pvp build. Edited February 6, 2012 by DarthPianoMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRtFuL Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) When guarding a door/node or carrying the ball, you will get focused. In theory you may be right, but in practice I find you will be able to force people to focus you in objective based pvp. Actually from my experience in pvp, heavy tanks do not get focused very much. People see tanks and upon the first attack can not score significant damage on them (800 damage on an attack that normally should score 1500ish damage for example) they will switch target to the folks who are SUPPORTING the tank, pop every cooldown they have on them, kill them as fast as possible so the tanks have NO support. That in pvp is often times the best strategy. You kill and nerf the supports damage and healing, and the snare the tank until you can have enough backup to take him down. In fact, in huttball, a tactic that I use on strong tanks who are carry the ball all the time is "drop-harpoon" - that is, fire harpoon while you are falling to the bottom level. That way drag them down to the bottom level with you and and kill their path of movement, while also isolating him from his support. Edited February 6, 2012 by aRtFuL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekrian Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Please Taugrim, oh please please please make a similar guide for marauder or juggernaut/ sentinel, watchman. You break it down for dumb people like me to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taugrimtaugrim Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Actually from my experience in pvp, heavy tanks do not get focused very much. People see tanks and upon the first attack can not score significant damage on them (800 damage on an attack that normally should score 1500ish damage for example) they will switch target to the folks who are SUPPORTING the tank, pop every cooldown they have on them, kill them as fast as possible so the tanks have NO support This is true. That being said, as I have said and shown on my streams, I often try to make myself an "attractive" target by going in first, so people start wasting their GCDs inefficiently trying to kill me instead of squishier targets. This is part of what I love about Iron Fist. You can get up in people's grills, shutdown casters and healers, dish out solid damage, and take a beating and stay on your feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CygnisJunior Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Logged in to give 5 stars. Why on earth this is a 3.67 rating at the moment I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogmar Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 p.s. Calling me "not very bright" does not add any credibility to your opinion, Rogmar. Like credibility is important to me, anyone else, or even you. An experienced player gave his explanations for why it's bad and you're basically dismissing it because you don't want to be wrong. I mean, you're STILL here defending Energy Blast in PvP. If you want to continue being sub-par, I guess that's your prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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