Adelreith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I enjoy the story element of ToR. Probably a little too much because it has caused me a bit of trouble. (warning - entering story mode. Press Space bar to skip) I played during the beta weekends. I did a sith warrior and I was thrilled. I wanted to kill Darth Baras SO bad (hated that guy). So first thing I did when I got this game for Christmas - I rolled a Sith warrior. I got to level 17 and my alignment was 0. Yeah 0. I actually took time to think about the answers and based my choices on what i felt was best. That put me in the middle. Which would have been fine and I would have loved to remain that way but... gear was now unavailable to me. Completely bummed I deleted and re-rolled a.... Sith Inquisitor! Loved the story. I just decided she was going to be a good guy (after all, she was a slave forced into becoming sith...) I figured as time went on, she could get more edgy, but all in all, she was going to be good and get those light side points. Hit level 12 and realized I hated the spec I chose (assassination). 50/50 chance right? With no way to respec and at this point preferring the sith warrior class, I re-rolled a... Jedi Knight! I got to level 12 and realized I just like the imperial side better. Prilogy Jedi were really never my thing. This isn't a problem with the game design, more like a problem with George Lucas himself So I decided to re roll a... Sith Warrior (again)! I know this starting area like the back of my hand (having done it four times now). I am a sociopath murderer (to get my dark side points), juggernaut (because I know I prefer this spec) and ... I .... just... can't... do ... it.... again. The dark/light points are forcing me to make meaningless decisions so i can get the gear and re-rolling so much is causing burnout. Which I am sad about because I really want to know if I ever kill Darth Baras (but not enough to get to level 17 again). I don't enjoy being a sociopath. Evil, sure. But a baby killing murderer? Not really my thing. A Neutral alignment system WOULD BE AWESOME! It could be that you just have to have a certain number of "alignment points" to get the gear to prove you were in fact doing quests and making choices. It could be completely equal with light/dark side gear. Also a change spec would be nice too. I made the wrong choice in choosing my spec. I thought I would like damage, but in hide sight i really wish i would have gone healing. Please allow me to change it to something I would enjoy more. Let me try out the different specs and I will commit. Just make me commit at 50, not at level 10. TL;DR - This game would greatly benefit from a neutral alignment bonus similar to light/dark and the ability to change specs (not to be confused with dual spec). I know I would enjoy it a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadeblunts Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I don't enjoy being a sociopath. Evil, sure. But a baby killing murderer? Not really my thing. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivri Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I actually started doing that in the start on my smuggler. I'd be perhaps 60% good and 40% evil at times, right until a friend of mine told me that it probably wasn't such a clever idea because I'd not progress to either side, which would then mean I couldn't get the items. That kind of disappointed me because a smuggler just really speaks to the neutral aspect. I don't want to be a bloody murderer all the time, but I most certainly do not want to save whiny people that got themselves captured or some-sort all the time either just because I am collecting points. So yeah, I agree, something counting towards neutral with benefits akin to the vendors light/dark has would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawaJedi Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I actually started doing that in the start on my smuggler. I'd be perhaps 60% good and 40% evil at times, right until a friend of mine told me that it probably wasn't such a clever idea because I'd not progress to either side, which would then mean I couldn't get the items. That kind of disappointed me because a smuggler just really speaks to the neutral aspect. I don't want to be a bloody murderer all the time, but I most certainly do not want to save whiny people that got themselves captured or some-sort all the time either just because I am collecting points. So yeah, I agree, something counting towards neutral with benefits akin to the vendors light/dark has would be much appreciated. Well you'd slowly gravitate to the light, and honestly, it doesn't restrict *that* much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyelessOne Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I totally agree with both of your points. I don't like the fact you are somewhat forced to be either black or white. Why can't gray be just as powerful? While I want to be able to play a gray Jedi or Sith, it would bother me even more if you suffer by going neutral for the non-Force using classes (and I'll admit I've only rolled with the Force users to date). I would also love to be able to change specialty classes, or at least be able to save my character at the point where you make the choice so I wouldn't have to go through the initial world again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExarchCathedra Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 These threads are so interesting, were there that many people who watched Darth Vader maim, torture, and kill on a whim and said to themselves "The dark side is just rather naughty"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonovsam Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Yeah, many of the DS/LS choices are completely nonsensical. Many of the DS choices are being brutal for the sake of being brutal. The decisions show no devious foresight I would expect from a heroic character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadeblunts Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 These threads are so interesting, were there that many people who watched Darth Vader maim, torture, and kill on a whim and said to themselves "The dark side is just rather naughty"? Hey now, you're talking about a movie. This is SW:TOR and it's real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giggitey Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 One "annoyance" I'm having is that Gault (level 30 BH companion) gets REALLY mad whenever you choose a light side option that turns down extra credits. Which I guess isn't a big deal, but it's just a little weird to see -292 affection for choosing the nice route because I want the light side gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adelreith Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 These threads are so interesting, were there that many people who watched Darth Vader maim, torture, and kill on a whim and said to themselves "The dark side is just rather naughty"? So in episode 1 we have qui-quon-jin cheating.... light or dark side? Then Obi-wan goes against the wishes of the council and trains Anakin... light or dark? Episode three Anakin kill those alien guys for killing his mother. Kills them all in cold blood. He is still a Jedi though.... light or dark. Episode 5 Yoda is just down right nasty to Luke. I know he is being wise and all that, but it is done so with swift judgments. I love yoda, don't get me wrong. I am just trying to prove a point. Episode 6 we find out that Obi-wan lied about Luke's father and tells them the force is viewed in "their own point of view" Quote: Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view. So all of these things make me see the force as a spectrum. Obi wan was maybe more on "the light" side of the spectrum than Qui-quon but both were trained as Jedi and are after the Jedi order. Anakin himself was trained as a Jedi then used the dark side of the force to draw his power - then why can't a Sith lord, trained to use passion and emotions, tap into the light side of the force to draw his power? TL:DR The force is a spectrum. If Jedi can go evil (vader), then why can't sith go light or even just chill in the middle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivri Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well you'd slowly gravitate to the light, and honestly, it doesn't restrict *that* much. I know it's not all that restrictive but, still it's a thing worth adding I think, also in terms of having players play the story they want to play. Sure we could just do as we want to anyway, but it kind of sucks that we'd then have to pick up a skill like diplomacy to get to the vendor with the items we want. Even if they're not stat-wise superior, some of the stuff still looks very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hey now, you're talking about a movie. This is SW:TOR and it's real. As real as the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adelreith Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 One "annoyance" I'm having is that Gault (level 30 BH companion) gets REALLY mad whenever you choose a light side option that turns down extra credits. Which I guess isn't a big deal, but it's just a little weird to see -292 affection for choosing the nice route because I want the light side gear. Sith warriors first companion (vette) hates all dark side choices. Weird companion choice if you ask me. And Jedi Inquisitor's first companion hates light side choices... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranorak Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Never ever should you have the feeling, while role playing, I HAVE to pick this choice or I'm screwed later on. I like the idea that lightsaber colours and stuff are restricted by alignment, but I had the idea of a Neutral character as well, and I'm glad I read this as a warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExarchCathedra Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 The force is a spectrum. If Jedi can go evil (vader), then why can't sith go light or even just chill in the middle? But the Sith can go light, who says otherwise? It's the people saying that that they should be able to go dark without actually doing anything dark I find of interest. As for grey, it's arguably an option making some decisions one way and some the other, but I can see a system where the extremes cause changes but the middle does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Bee Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Who cares if you get some of both points during story, since after you get to 10k on either end of the spectrum the points that exceed said 10k are subtracted from the other end. So say you got 10k Light and 500 dark, you just need to get another 500 light and you will end up having 10k light and zero dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlouismartin Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 No, but the fringe element is a big part of the expanded universe. And a third option would be cool. Some IMPs have no idea of the horrors that particular Sith may engage in, and although this doesn't absolve them, they aren't all as evil as Vader. Some just have a good career, and are trying to provide for their family. In SWTOR there is no value in not picking LS or DS and going with it. No room for relativism. LS and DS should be for force users. A different system should exist for non force users. The universe has always been this way. Han Solo or Talon Karrde or Lando would likely have been consumed in their pasts if they had to follow the morality of the light side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adelreith Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Who cares if you get some of both points during story, since after you get to 10k on either end of the spectrum the points that exceed said 10k are subtracted from the other end. So say you got 10k Light and 500 dark, you just need to get another 500 light and you will end up having 10k light and zero dark. oh i know how math works It is when you have 1000 light and 1000 dark with no progression in sight that you start to get bummed. *happened to me* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adelreith Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 But the Sith can go light, who says otherwise? It's the people saying that that they should be able to go dark without actually doing anything dark I find of interest. As for grey, it's arguably an option making some decisions one way and some the other, but I can see a system where the extremes cause changes but the middle does not. I suppose i read your post wrong. sorry about that. I agree with what you said about being evil but not doing anything evil. I just want to be in the middle (sometimes evil, sometimes good) and still get the in game gear bonuses that i would if i went all light/all dark. After all am doing the same amount of work that everyone else is doing. I just picked non linear choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I can agree to the light/dark issue , and id be in favor of gear for neutral play but i most certainly NOT be in favor of being able to switch your advanced class, you get PLENTY warning, not to mention that its in their best interest that you level another class to play another aspect im not trying to be a dick here, and its going to take so much more typing than i care to do, but ive seen what tiptoeing at will between specs and roles did to wow and community and i DO NOT want the same to happen here, my advice? level a different class, most all have healing options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Diplomacy is your only hope! It really does help you lean in the direction you want. Can get a bit expensive (like all Mission Crew Skills) but it's the only way I really know to control your LS/DS progression in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganarh Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 that's one reason I chose diplomacy as crew skill- I was able to choose conversation options that felt right for me and grind dark side points through diplomacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilencingMchine Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) 1. Your respec arguement is weak. It seems more that you don't understand that you are choosing among 8 classes. The 4 "paths" you start with are not the same thing. You can respec your chosen class all you want in game (go see skill mentor). Changing class is not (and should not) be part of this game (and name me 3 others that ever allowed you to switch class mid-game). 2. Choosing light/dark side? If this is such a hard choice for you then you get what you deserve....no benefit of either for NOT choosing sides. If you choose to sit in the middle and not decide, then fine. But don't expect the game to cater/pander to you for being indecisive. From my Sith point of view, YOU ARE WEAK! (*seriously, if this game is such a moral dilema for you that you somehow place your own real life moral and ethics on your in game choices, then maybe you are taking this game WAY too seriously) Edited January 9, 2012 by SilencingMchine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adelreith Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 I can agree to the light/dark issue , and id be in favor of gear for neutral play but i most certainly NOT be in favor of being able to switch your advanced class, you get PLENTY warning, not to mention that its in their best interest that you level another class to play another aspect im not trying to be a dick here, and its going to take so much more typing than i care to do, but ive seen what tiptoeing at will between specs and roles did to wow and community and i DO NOT want the same to happen here, my advice? level a different class, most all have healing options I was merely pointing out the lack of spec change was making me not to want to play the game (burnout on re-rolling so fast in such a short amount of time). Mostly the light/dark thing irks me because that was the catalyst for me re-rolling in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodaOfYoda Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Basically went Dark V on all Empire chars for the sole reason of a) rolled Empire b) gear. The alignment system is moot. You'll pick either extreme for one reason or another, and there is no incentive to stay neutral... kind of a huge oversight imho to an "alignment" system. It's unfortunate overall in how this system was implemented. I practically spacebar through everything and simply choose my alignment choice option, so it hasn't effected me all too much. I do see though how it's broken and really does not reward those whom immerse themselves in a roleplay position or even listen to the convos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts