PVP Video - OPeratives are OP

[flooble]

Is that video stuttery or is it just me?

 

I'd be more interested to see something where participants actually are fighting properly, cc breaks employed in timely fashions/retaliatory CC etc

[Delolith]

Is that video stuttery or is it just me?

 

I'd be more interested to see something where participants actually are fighting properly, cc breaks employed in timely fashions/retaliatory CC etc

 

Yes it is very stuttery. However, the person under question died in less than 2-3 seconds. Even if he used his CC break instantly what difference do you think it could make?

[Jarkeld]

 

Although the Sorc isn't interested in dueling I think this is pretty constructive....

 

player looting isn't in game.

1vs1?! lol - get him out of stealth and GG lol

 

 

video being constructive?

go stand there and do nothing and I as a sniper will burst you down as well, with same crit luck i will be faster though.

 

better team up and get a friend with stealth detection 3 around you..

(1vs1 .. *gg*)

Edited January 9, 2012 by Jarkeld

[flooble]

Yes it is very stuttery. However, the person under question died in less than 2-3 seconds. Even if he used his CC break instantly what difference do you think it could make?

 

Can't have, GCD would have ensured it was longer than that. Maybe more like 3-4.5 but that's a long time to stand inactive.

 

From the top of my head? Break CC and knockback/snare/CC

 

How effective, I can't say (and would only enter into the infinite theorycraft spiral), but what amounts to target dummy bashing shows very little indeed to base balance from.

 

 

Maybe there's a problem, maybe there's not. To ascertain that independently would require two players going all out in a series of duels as a starting point. It won't address potential metagame/synergy issues, but it is a starting point.

 

 

Edit: Typo

Edited January 9, 2012 by flooble

[BDutch]

~350 expertise, 6 champion items, 2 centurion. I am only seeing unbuffed hidden strike crits for just around 4k on poorly geared folks / light armor. With the wz buff and expertise potion, I get in to the mid 5k (I do this routinely for the medal).

 

In other words, equipment makes a huge difference. Now make a video of only you fighting people of equal gear. A helm/chest on its own does not = fully geared.

 

Edit: Or even better - grab green items from the AH and make a new video

 

Pretty sure I've had unbuffed hidden strike crits of a little over 4k on my scoundrel that's in level 40 pvp gear. On a side note... I was never a huge proponent of combat log/dps meters, but it's kinda funny that right now it's pretty much youtube video or ****. We all might as well just be making up numbers.

Edited January 9, 2012 by BDutch

[tarcin]

Nerf is needed obviously. It is true pvp isn't balanced betwen 1v1,but everyone must have CHANCE to fight back.Dont tell me stick with your friends all the time BS you are(operatives) not a f.ing stealthed world boss that i have to always be grouped up with 5 people to defend myself in warzones.Have some balls and admit a little decrease in your burst is neccesary.

[Baalzamon]

You Nerf herders!!

[Aragiel]

As a full champ geared vanguar in defensive set i have seen a hits about 3,5-4K (i expect that was with buffed +%expertise, adrenalin and so on). Average hit is somewhere 2-3K. Thats still a lot. I can basically survive first stun or break it. But then i definitelly need healmyself with potion or whatever, poping shield help alot but of course is not available all the time.

 

So there are 3 points

 

1) buffs / stacking to unbelievable ammounts. Damm, when i pop everything i can do 4K crits too

 

2) CC in this game - there is only short imunity which lets you unable to defend yourself and your cc breaker with 2 min cooldown doesnt hellp all the time (but in case of operative its working well thats true)

 

3) Burst - they have really highest burst in this game. If you meet 2 operatives / scoundrels premade who are assisting each other and sometimes supported by heals - you are without chance. Even as tank they will bring you down in 2-3 seconds no chance to react. BUT - the question is.. without above mentioned points.. would it be same?

[fungihoujo]

Nothing wrong with a class that has good mobility, can kill someone in their opener stun, has stealth and can heal.

 

Nope, nothing wrong at all.

 

 

Kinda funny that if you go the other Agent AC, you get an immobile slug that dies to a sneeze and still doesn't do as much damage- if they'd given snipers healing rather than operatives, it might have been fair- as is, I can't see why anybody would roll anything else...

 

 

I repeat- highest opener damage, ability to still do damage into the fight, healing, stealth- it's the wonder class!

[Sigmund_Drake]

pretty standard depiction to the flow of play

 

If any class condensed 2 hours down to a few minutes of a highlight reel we could make the OP case for any of them.

 

As someone mentioned before you struggled with level 50 encounters as few as there were.

 

This is another video of a 50 beating on average to poor mid and low level players.

 

Hardly a plausible case for this class being overpowered.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Sigmund_Drake

[flooble]

AS A MELEE DPSER....yes it is that ridiculous.

 

You know shadows and assassins are hybrids right?

 

Your complaint is that to win, you need to use the tools available?!

[Delolith]

You know shadows and assassins are hybrids right?

 

Your complaint is that to win, you need to use the tools available?!

 

I use the tools...they are not enough...unless I kite him for truly prolonged time which resets resolve and he can use his incapacitate to close down the distance, restealth and proceed to the ****.

[Jarkeld]

Kinda funny that if you go the other Agent AC, you get an immobile slug that dies to a sneeze and still doesn't do as much damage- if they'd given snipers healing rather than operatives, it might have been fair- as is, I can't see why anybody would roll anything else...

 

 

I repeat- highest opener damage, ability to still do damage into the fight, healing, stealth- it's the wonder class!

 

LOL 100% wrong, sorry.

sniper's markmanship burst dmg is the highest atm, really sorry...

can dish out more dmg constantly, the only problem --> there are currently nearly no high lvl geared snipers

Edited January 9, 2012 by Jarkeld

[Hocsa]

u are hitting ppl with 0 expertise protection

[wintersnight]

you're fighting a bunch of low lvls in WZs. when you are fighting 50s, it's either 4 on 2 or 2 on 1 or you're barely winning.

 

Every lvl 50 can beat up on low levels....that's why they are getting their own bracket.

 

Show you ganking lvl 50 battlemasters.

 

A lvl 50 BH oculd show the same video.

A lvl 50 Sniper could wreck face.

Any lvl 50 geared _______ can do the same thing to low levels.

Edited January 9, 2012 by wintersnight

[flooble]

Sooo...why don't you stealth too? I mean, sure, its a tie, but he's had the opener, done everything he can and at best he can force a draw?

 

 

Regardless, I digress, too much hyperbolé and posts/videos with agendas - more empirical evidence required imo.

 

Maybe there's a problem and maybe there's not, but right now all I see are salespeople, need more independent peer review

[pawnxing]

Before turning 40 on my scoundrel I felt like the class was fine. When I hit 40, and picked up the 31-point flechette talent, it was a different game. I'm at 41 and I'm wasting 50s and within the first few WZs I had an overwhelming sense that the class was simply too strong. My kills aren't 3-second beat downs like the ones in the video on this thread but still.

 

Looking at the scoreboard, where you can hover over a name and see biggest hit and dps, I have the biggest hits by far, often doubling everyone else. But in my opinion it's the 50% damage debuff that comes with flechette round that is game breaking. I was truly a night-and-day type of difference when I hit 40.

[silvershadez]

Scoundrel level 50 player here:

 

You can't jude a class based on a player with obviously full Champion gear versus opponents in lvl 10-45 or even 50's without any gear.

 

Gear is giving a huge advantage in this game. When i wasn't 50 and without any Gear a geared sorc could just use his pushback and burst me away before i got back to him again.

 

You guys should wait until the majority has reached lvl 50 and has about the same gear. I just have a hard time right now killing a fully champion geared healer at all. One heal is enough to heal his half life back up and the majority of those heals doesn't even have a cast time (+ there aren't that much healing debuffs avaiable). Not to forget a good geared infiltration shadow will do about the same damage as a scoundrel/operative and they even have a sprint + a pushback abillity.

[astrolite]

 

Although the Sorc isn't interested in dueling I think this is pretty constructive....

 

It shows an operative using a surge adrenal. Thanks for pointing that out in your post. Oh wait.

[CHRISGG]

It shows an operative using a surge adrenal. Thanks for pointing that out in your post. Oh wait.

 

Its a power adrenal and he also used the expertise consumable. Once again proving that the problem is BUFFS.

[Sathid]

Scoundrel level 50 player here:

 

You can't jude a class based on a player with obviously full Champion gear versus opponents in lvl 10-45 or even 50's without any gear.

 

Gear is giving a huge advantage in this game. When i wasn't 50 and without any Gear a geared sorc could just use his pushback and burst me away before i got back to him again.

 

You guys should wait until the majority has reached lvl 50 and has about the same gear. I just have a hard time right now killing a fully champion geared healer at all. One heal is enough to heal his half life back up and the majority of those heals doesn't even have a cast time (+ there aren't that much healing debuffs avaiable). Not to forget a good geared infiltration shadow will do about the same damage as a scoundrel/operative and they even have a sprint + a pushback abillity.

 

Level 50 scoundrel here too,sith inq's are impossible to kill for me if they are geared and im not talking fully geared either,also tanks and Techs or whatever their bounty hunter thing is are impossible to take down,il admit i dont use consumables like has been posted around here,but one thing i have noticed that the Agent has over us is that fast blade,we drop rather quickly out of stealth to our counterpart due to the speed of his attack,our bread and butter is our burst and knockdown that last only 3 seconds,after that we are spent.

[Arutassin]

This whole thread is a fail with so much misinformation.

 

The thing that needs to be looked into are the stackable buffs from Biochem. Any class with these on is insane.

 

People keep referring to a 50% damage buff from Flachete round. this is actually a 50% arpen buff which means that it bypasses 50% of mitigation from armour. Armour mitigation is so low in the game that this is not as impressive as it sounds. in fact it only makes a big difference against heavily armoured classes. Even then it bypasses 50% of their armour mitigation, not 50% increased damage. This will likely have a more like 11% damage increase against a heavy armour target.

 

This thread is soo full of wrong info it hurts.

[big_aug]

You people crying Nerf have no clue what you're talking about.

 

I have 225 expertise. I murder Lvl 10-49s. Absoutely murder. Lvl 50's with no gear, I destroy them if I get my opener. Lvl 50's with gear... not so much. Even with an opener (that sometimes does ZERO damage due to absorbs and shields and ****), I don't always win. Sometimes it does 1.5K dmg, sometimes it does 4k dmg.

 

I get outplayed by some folks and I outplay some others. The ones who outplay me usually beat me.

 

And here's something for you... I rarely get torn apart by other Operatives or Scoundrels. I pop my CC break as soon as they open. I turn around, stun them, back stab them, pop some defensive cooldowns, and go to town.

 

I don't hear anyone crying about the troopers or whatever other ranged classes are hitting me for 3K+ repeatedly from huge distance. I'm dead before I can even close the gap.

 

EVERY CLASS IN THIS GAME HAS SERIOUS DAMAGE POTENTIAL. I've taken multiple 3-5K shots from every class I think. I've been killed in like 3 seconds and had no idea what happened. It happens.

Edited January 9, 2012 by big_aug

[Calcifar]

Stealth class stacked with a dozen different buffs from WZ and Crewskill, outfitted in High end PvP gear, wastes newborn 50s and lowbies.

 

Who would have thought...

 

 

Check out some of the Sentinel/ Marauders who stack Adrenals etc.

 

Or Sniper / Gunslingers specced marksman.

 

 

Really, Operaive and Scoundrals are absolutely fine the way they are in terms of balance, its this stacking of buffs that needs to be adressed.

 

 

Here a Video of a comparibly geared Scoundral doing PvP WITHOUT BUFF STACKING :

 

 

 

Hardly seems OP to me.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Calcifar

[big_aug]

And here's another thing.

 

I've already found myself avoiding targets with full HP. I go for people 75% or less. It's just too difficult to finish people with full HP before you get stunned and then destroyed. When the opener hits for 1500dmg, you're in trouble against a full HP lvl 50 with a few pieces of gear.