Space Combat = Horribly Disappointing

[Nightspirit]

Played the space minigame. Didn't hate it, didn't love it. My stray observations.

 

"You know, if we attacked this Star Destroyer from that angle we could avoid all this heavy fire and....no? We're just going to keep attacking from the stupidest tactical angle possible? Ok then."

 

"How the hell is this damaged Star Destroyer so hard to catch up to in my light freighter."

 

"The Empire pilots are so courteous to position themselves right in front of me and fly straight and level. You'd think that the pilots flying the empires newest prototype fighters would be a little bit better than that."

 

"NO!!!! Don't make another pass by the shield generators, I already destroyed them. I've only got 30 seconds left! ATTACK THE TURRETS!!!"

 

"Well, I tried to dodge that asteroid by going left instead of right. I seemed to have plenty of time to make it around however space seemed to end when I went left and I ended up crashing right into it."

 

"Why do I have to use missiles to destroy my objective? I can blow the objectives up with my guns but it only counts if I use missiles? Does HQ REALLY care how I blow something up as long as it's gone?"

 

Please BioWare, let me fly my own ship.

[Vesperascit]

nothing more than a mini-game.

 

Its funny because at E3 when they were talking about the Space Combat system they said they were making it as a mini-game. Something to do for a few minutes when you weren't out questing.

 

Now people are all mad because instead of listening to what the devs said it was going to be they just made up a ton of bulls**t in their heads about what they wanted and then somehow seem to have convinced themselves that is what it was SUPPOSED to be.

[Nanomancer]

i would have been happy if the space combat was not on rails and you could pvp. i hate not controlling my ship.

[Nightspirit]

Its funny because at E3 when they were talking about the Space Combat system they said they were making it as a mini-game. Something to do for a few minutes when you weren't out questing.

 

Now people are all mad because instead of listening to what the devs said it was going to be they just made up a ton of bulls**t in their heads about what they wanted and then somehow seem to have convinced themselves that is what it was SUPPOSED to be.

 

That is NOT what they said. BioWare over-hyped a BIG REVEAL at E3 and Space Combat was that reveal, fooling people into thinking that Space Combat would be a major part of the game. The word "minigame" was never used until shortly before launch. The only thing said about it was that it was a Tunnel Shooter (and they were very careful using the word "tunnel" and not "rail" as there was apparently a big distinction between the two). Then in several interviews BioWare employes compared it to Rogue Squadron (which is free flight) when they meant to say Rebel Assault and there were never any corrections made for that mistake. Then they showed the game and it was the same 30 seconds of footage all the time, with scenes that showed the camera pan which could easily be misinterpreted as a free flight experience. Then it was often compared to Star Fox, which had free flight portions of the game during boss fights. To make matters worse Space Combat was never really talked about again after E3 and was swept under the rug until launch.

 

BioWare's marketing (either intentionally or accidentally) grossly misrepresented the Space Game and the casual gamer not following the game development religiously could easily see think that there was free flight space in this game.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Nightspirit

[Evilidea]

People must remember JTL with rose colored lenses, cause all I remember about it was flying in circle after circle killing npc's, PvP spavce was fun put PvE was a joke compared to TOr's. Tunnel shooter or not it feels more star warsy than JTL ever did.

[Abriael]

BioWare's marketing (either intentionally or accidentally) grossly misrepresented the Space Game and the casual gamer not following the game development religiously could easily see think that there was free flight space in this game.

 

That's irrelevant. It's fun, rather addictive, and a great way to steam down after playing the MMORPG part for hours. It also looks rather great.

 

The rest is fluff.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Abriael

[VicScotia]

I find the space combat part a nice 15 to 20 minute diversion as a break from the ground stuff

 

Although if they did expand it some something similar to a cut down EVE online (very cut down EVE online...dang is EVE confusing) then i'm all for that, big epic group space battles and the like...

Edited January 8, 2012 by VicScotia

[Vesperascit]

That is NOT what they said. BioWare over-hyped a BIG REVEAL at E3 and Space Combat was that reveal, fooling people into thinking that Space Combat would be a major part of the game. The word "minigame" was never used until shortly before launch. The only thing said about it was that it was a Tunnel Shooter (and they were very careful using the word "tunnel" and not "rail" as there was apparently a big distinction between the two). Then in several interviews BioWare employes compared it to Rogue Squadron (which is free flight) when they meant to say Rebel Assault and there were never any corrections made for that mistake. Then they showed the game and it was the same 30 seconds of footage all the time, with scenes that showed the camera pan which could easily be misinterpreted as a free flight experience. Then it was often compared to Star Fox, which had free flight portions of the game during boss fights. To make matters worse Space Combat was never really talked about again after E3 and was swept under the rug until launch.

 

BioWare's marketing (either intentionally or accidentally) grossly misrepresented the Space Game and the casual gamer not following the game development religiously could easily see think that there was free flight space in this game.

 

Ok I have no evidence that they ever actually said "minigame" or not. However when I watched the E3 interview where they talked about Space Combat. What is currently in the game now is exactly what I was expecting. So they definitely were not describing any Free Flight type game.

 

Tunnel would be more accurate than being on Rails. Games where you are on rails you have 0 control of any movement and you usually just shoot at whatever is on the screen. House of the Dead, Time Crisis, Pokemon Snap. Those are examples of games where you are On Rails. As it is in Space Combat in SWTOR you can move freely around the screen but your flight path is predetermined. So it's more freedom than on Rails, but obviously not Free Flight.

 

On that note PEOPLE SHOULD STOP SAYING SPACE COMBAT IS ON RAILS.

[Wepo]

I was hoping for more from space combat also. As a person who enjoyed SWG space flight, I was a bit disappointed with the rail shooter.

 

I like the game, not a huge deal, but hopefully they can release a new version of space combat down the road. SWG didn't initially launch with space combat so maybe they will come up with something with more depth down the road.

[mistafadedglory]

I enjoy the space combat... /shrug

[MorgonKara]

I kind of like the space missions, although I will say that the difficulty ramps up rather quickly after lvl 40. I breeze through all of the daily missions except for the last one in which I get destroyed every time, even with my ship stocked up with lvl 4 crafted parts. Edited January 8, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Nightspirit]

That's irrelevant. It's fun, rather addicting, and a great way to steam down after playing the MMORPG part for hours. It also looks rather great.

 

The rest is fluff.

 

It was relevant to the point I was responding to, which was someone saying that the space combat shouldn't be disappointing because it was exactly what BioWare said it would be. It also contains actual facts, unlike your post which contains one blatant error and the rest being opinion.

[darthdoll]

No SWG style combat = really disappointing.

At least something passable like SWBF2? Nope. = super-duper disappointing.

No multi-player, no PVP = horribly disappointing.

 

Just a loose rail shooter akin to WoW's bombing runs, nothing more than a mini-game.

 

[Flowerslayer]

No SWG style combat

Go back to WoW.

 

Nah but seriously, I like it.

[Andryah]

No SWG style combat = really disappointing.

At least something passable like SWBF2? Nope. = super-duper disappointing.

No multi-player, no PVP = horribly disappointing.

 

Just a loose rail shooter akin to WoW's bombing runs, nothing more than a mini-game.

 

Why mad? Did SWG have space combat at release? Did they even have a mini-game version that you could earn xp and rewards from until they got around to releasing true space combat?

 

I can't tell you to go back to SWG, 'cause they killed it, but really, stop comparing this game to every other game. Maybe explore and enjoy it for what it is and has to offer, and take some time so be surrised at what it offers in patches and expansions later on maybe. Or, not. It's your choice.

[Andryah]

It was relevant to the point I was responding to, which was someone saying that the space combat shouldn't be disappointing because it was exactly what BioWare said it would be. It also contains actual facts, unlike your post which contains one blatant error and the rest being opinion.

 

Sorry to burst you bubble, but it is what I was promised. There have been no surprises + or - over what they said it would be at launch.

 

Now, I do understand that SWG vets might be let down (given what they had over in that now shuttered game), and I do understand that many people self-hype and self-distort in their own minds what the game would have at launch. Neither of these are Biowares problem however. These problems are self-induced.

[Nightspirit]

Ok I have no evidence that they ever actually said "minigame" or not. However when I watched the E3 interview where they talked about Space Combat.

 

Well, if you saw that interview then you're good I guess. If you saw most of the other promotional material (aimed at casual gamers and not those following TOR's development) then it is a bit more ambiguous, and you can easily see where people may have bought the game expecting different space combat.

 

Tunnel would be more accurate than being on Rails. Games where you are on rails you have 0 control of any movement and you usually just shoot at whatever is on the screen. House of the Dead, Time Crisis, Pokemon Snap. Those are examples of games where you are On Rails. As it is in Space Combat in SWTOR you can move freely around the screen but your flight path is predetermined. So it's more freedom than on Rails, but obviously not Free Flight.

 

Star Fox is always described as a rail shooter in every review I've ever read. In fact I don't even think I ever heart the term "Tunnel Shooter" until BioWare made it up to describe Space Combat in such a way as to say "...but it's totally not a rail shooter."

[Flowerslayer]

Really? Umad? 2007 called, they want their troll line back.

 

And yea, sorry, the argument of "just don't do it" doesn't float with me. This is Star Wars. Without space combat it's just WoW with lightsabers and voice acting.

 

 

 

I like it. u jelly, bra?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Flowerslayer

[Vesperascit]

Well, if you saw that interview then you're good I guess. If you saw most of the other promotional material (aimed at casual gamers and not those following TOR's development) then it is a bit more ambiguous, and you can easily see where people may have bought the game expecting different space combat.

 

 

 

Star Fox is always described as a rail shooter in every review I've ever read. In fact I don't even think I ever heart the term "Tunnel Shooter" until BioWare made it up to describe Space Combat in such a way as to say "...but it's totally not a rail shooter."

 

Yea, Star Fox was totally a tunnel shooter but they never took the time to come up with a more accurate description of it back in the day

[shotif]

For god's sake, stop whining about this... Space combat is fun and dynamic (although too easy currently, IMO) and it's a nice minigame to distract you from ground combat. I just hope they keep the current space combat (and add wome difficulty to it, though they are doing it with additional bonus objectives after you repeat it several times, but it's still too easy) + add free flight PvP and group PvE missions in an expansion.

 

Tl;dr space combat is fun, distracting and completely OPTIONAL and I hope they keep it this way with a possible additon of multiplayer space combat.

[soujirop]

I expected worse, it did impress me. However I expect to see some free-movemente space combat in the future. A warzone would rock. Edited January 8, 2012 by soujirop

[Nightspirit]

Sorry to burst you bubble, but it is what I was promised. There have been no surprises + or - over what they said it would be at launch.

 

Now, I do understand that SWG vets might be let down (given what they had over in that now shuttered game), and I do understand that many people self-hype and self-distort in their own minds what the game would have at launch. Neither of these are Biowares problem however. These problems are self-induced.

 

It was exactly what I expected because I followed the game development. I knew what it would be at launch and it was no surprise to me. What I'm saying is that casual gamers who only saw the very limited promotional material aimed at them could easily be mistaken into thinking that Space Combat was something that it is not. I hate to burst YOUR bubble but this isn't the pre-launch forums anymore. There are many people on here who didn't follow the game through development. This started because someone attacked the OP for being disappointed with Space Combat. The poster had a "what did you expect" attitude towards the OP. If this was still the pre-launch forums I'd agree with you and say "yea, you really should know what Space Combat is all about if you frequent these forums." We watch the E3 videos and all the other stuff from the conventions that the casual gamers don't give two ***** about. Now the forums also have many people who didn't follow development and only read about it in gaming magazines or online gaming articles.

 

What I'm saying is because of how the game was presented to the casual gamer they have a very valid reason to be disappointed and to have expected something different from Space Combat in this game. Some casual gamers did see the right information about the game and know what to expect. Some didn't (or maybe saw the multiple inaccurate ones stated that TOR Space Combat was like "Rebel Assault" when the Space Combat in this game bears no resemblance to that game). Anyway, if someone is disappointed with space combat in this game then saying "well what did you expect" isn't appropriate. Due to how the game was marketed to the casual gamers that TOR was trying desperately to attract there is a very valid reason for them to expect something different.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Nightspirit

[Abriael]

Go back to WoW.

 

No, Go back to SWG.

 

oh... wait...

[Trixsh]

You can't really just say "It's optional, just don't do it"

I see that line used on these forums way way too often..

Without feedback, there can be no development.

If people wouldn't voice their approvals and disapproval, how the devs would know what of their many makings the players are enjoying and what they are not.

Positive and negative feelings exists in all of us, but I get the vibe from these forums that if you get ANY negative feelings about the game, you should just ignore those aspects and possibly just quit the game.. You really think that's gonna help?

 

But on the topic, I myself surely liked the space combat at first, but after the Nth time doing the exact same mission with exact same route to fly, just killing everything faster due to knowledge and better ship equips, it started to really get dull.

Then I saw that new space missions opened, yay!

But oh and no, what I got what the exactly same missions except they were recolored to reddish tint..

And then same again later for other missions, recolors and a bit tougher opponets, instead of say, added and customizable difficulties with increased rewards.

Or say, actual new missions with different objectives.

 

And even if you do enjoy the space combat missions for the 20th time you are doing the same mission, you can't really deny you wouldn't enjoy having more choices, in the sense of flying paths or new, different missions. You would possibly have even more fun than the people who enjoyed the missions first, but got bored really fast with them.

[Abriael]

It was relevant to the point I was responding to, which was someone saying that the space combat shouldn't be disappointing because it was exactly what BioWare said it would be. It also contains actual facts, unlike your post which contains one blatant error and the rest being opinion.

 

Your "actual facts" are irrelevant. Games need to be judged on what they are not on what you expected.