Paganini Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes. All it does is display facts and holds people accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 war had tons of hacking due to macros and mods which opened holes in the security lotro same as war Now, I haven't played WAR, but I did play LotRO and I can tell you that add-ons in that game did absolutely nothing to the community. Add-ons in lotro are in fact so limited that you can literally only present info already available to you on the default UI. You can present it different ways, but it doesn't let you present things like threat charts, DPS charts and so on. All "add-ons" in LotRO did was add an even better UI customization, and nothing more. And I'm all for add-ons like that, because these kinds of add-ons don't do anything for your performance, except move things around and make them easier to read, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quorthun Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 That was for LOTRO not TOR Oh lol, yeah obviously I haven't read through all the pages in the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Personally, I'd love to know what my dps is so I have an idea of how well I'm playing my class. For me its a way to improve upon my abilities as a player. For this reason I'd like to be able to see my own dps. I don't need to be able to see anyone else's dps. This would work because it would prevent discrimination in pick up groups, but at the same time guilds could require their members to disclose dps during raids (if they so choose) so they can identify under performing raid members. This game doesn't need addons like we had in WoW. That was just way too cumbersome to have to download 20 mods to performs 100 different functions just to play the game (I'm looking at you DBM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spynnal Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Now, I haven't played WAR, but I did play LotRO and I can tell you that add-ons in that game did absolutely nothing to the community. Add-ons in lotro are in fact so limited that you can literally only present info already available to you on the default UI. You can present it different ways, but it doesn't let you present things like threat charts, DPS charts and so on. All "add-ons" in LotRO did was add an even better UI customization, and nothing more. And I'm all for add-ons like that, because these kinds of add-ons don't do anything for your performance, except move things around and make them easier to read, for example. Played Lotro 3 years and never even knew it had addons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Now, I haven't played WAR, but I did play LotRO and I can tell you that add-ons in that game did absolutely nothing to the community. Add-ons in lotro are in fact so limited that you can literally only present info already available to you on the default UI. You can present it different ways, but it doesn't let you present things like threat charts, DPS charts and so on. All "add-ons" in LotRO did was add an even better UI customization, and nothing more. And I'm all for add-ons like that, because these kinds of add-ons don't do anything for your performance, except move things around and make them easier to read, for example. How do you feel about Auctioneer, probably my favorite addon ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PellonSW Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I was in a PUG doing a quest the other day. Not a heroic, just sharing the kills. We come up on a Champion and engage. As he approaches half health, I get removed from the group. I ask '***?' They reply, "It looked like you were just standing there not attacking." I'm a combat medic. I was healing, and my primary heal animations look like me trying to make a phone call in a storm followed by a droid appearing from the sky far away from me. I was also using hammer shot and auto-fire, but as only half my rotation it must have looked like I was barely performing when I was actually doing an action every GCD. If he had an in-game activity/performance monitor, he would have known I was contributing. Meters have positive uses as well as the negative people have used them for in WoW. Bioware should add in a useful performance meter players can enable to check their performance and see what stats need changing. (missing a lot, add accuracy, etc). This did not happen or you were grouping with utter morons who have never seen Commandos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DredWes Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I was in a PUG doing a quest the other day. Not a heroic, just sharing the kills. We come up on a Champion and engage. As he approaches half health, I get removed from the group. I ask '***?' They reply, "It looked like you were just standing there not attacking." I'm a combat medic. I was healing, and my primary heal animations look like me trying to make a phone call in a storm followed by a droid appearing from the sky far away from me. I was also using hammer shot and auto-fire, but as only half my rotation it must have looked like I was barely performing when I was actually doing an action every GCD. If he had an in-game activity/performance monitor, he would have known I was contributing. Meters have positive uses as well as the negative people have used them for in WoW. Bioware should add in a useful performance meter players can enable to check their performance and see what stats need changing. (missing a lot, add accuracy, etc). Never said they didn't have positive uses. I just don't care to see the spam and them being used as the end all be all for flashpoints and operations because, like it or not, they will be for a large part of groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Personally, I'd love to know what my dps is so I have an idea of how well I'm playing my class. For me its a way to improve upon my abilities as a player. For this reason I'd like to be able to see my own dps. I don't need to be able to see anyone else's dps. This would work because it would prevent discrimination in pick up groups, but at the same time guilds could require their members to disclose dps during raids (if they so choose) so they can identify under performing raid members. This game doesn't need addons like we had in WoW. That was just way too cumbersome to have to download 20 mods to performs 100 different functions just to play the game (I'm looking at you DBM). Now this is someone talking some sense. Why do we have to settle for a dated Addon associated to another mmo. Why not do something different and better. Instead of a third party Addon why can't bioware implement there own ui function that addresses some of the concerns you have? There are alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolftrot Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I've seen top dps do some seriously stupid ****, (like not assisting with the adds and focusing solely on the boss) and BECAUSE of that ending up in the "top". Even worse, these are the people that usually are first to link their dps to all! NOT TO MENTION, that they oft pull aggro while as a tank have to get the critters off the healer BEFORE they kill him because god forbid it would ruin their rotation if they did that themselves. I'd like the dps meters to be implemented but remain private. It would help players self-improve and optimize their rotations. (Would also be nice to have a breakdown of how much damage they done with which ability) That said, UI itself could use a LOT more flexibility. Being a tank myself I'd also like to see an aggro list. Edited January 10, 2012 by Wolftrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febibi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Now this is someone talking some sense. Why do we have to settle for a dated Addon associated to another mmo. Why not do something different and better. Instead of a third party Addon why can't bioware implement there own ui function that addresses some of the concerns you have? There are alternatives. Awsome post.... I suggest a individual and group leader only meter system.... Make sum fun chats in it as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If you can't ID the person not pulling their weight in a group without re-count, I submit you are the bad player. Really, oh Great Swami..! Do tell! You have a group of 16 people. 2 Tanks, 4 healers, and 10 dps. All dps are targetting the boss and it looks like their animations are going... but the boss enrages and one-shots everyone because he wasn't killed quickly enough. How do YOU tell which dps wasn't carrying his share..? I'd love for you to enlighten us all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm sorry but that is why you fail humanity 101, after all it's only light entertainment..a game. No risk to financial security, your home, your loved ones....it's simply a game. But if I am doing NIGHTMARE MODE OPERATIONS, you know, the mode above hard mode, I need OPTIMAL PLAYERS. If I bring the disabled person, we'll lose. I'm speaking not of normal operations, or even flashpoints. I'm talking about Nightmare Mode Operations. Nightmare Mode Operations should be, and likely are, hard enough that they'd simply be impossible for people with disabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 But if I am doing NIGHTMARE MODE OPERATIONS, you know, the mode above hard mode, I need OPTIMAL PLAYERS. If I bring the disabled person, we'll lose. I'm speaking not of normal operations, or even flashpoints. I'm talking about Nightmare Mode Operations. Nightmare Mode Operations should be, and likely are, hard enough that they'd simply be impossible for people with disabilities. Stop why you can, youre going deeper into the rabbit hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spynnal Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Now this is someone talking some sense. Why do we have to settle for a dated Addon associated to another mmo. Why not do something different and better. Instead of a third party Addon why can't bioware implement there own ui function that addresses some of the concerns you have? There are alternatives. Personal BioMeters. Make it so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febibi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Really, oh Great Swami..! Do tell! You have a group of 16 people. 2 Tanks, 4 healers, and 10 dps. All dps are targetting the boss and it looks like their animations are going... but the boss enrages and one-shots everyone because he wasn't killed quickly enough. How do YOU tell which dps wasn't carrying his share..? I'd love for you to enlighten us all... You as a leader discuss what happened.... assess what was not dont properly and tell your guys to get ready for another go and tell them this is the time... to step up your game, rememebr what to do... concentrate a bit more on one area than another... and you go at it.... Trust in your group.... people needing junk like this are probably pugs... get involved with a guild and community and make friends.... trust and help one another... dont be jerks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 That info can be directly used to quickly and easily find an optimal rotation. This is something you couldn't do on your own. Recount has dictated your rotation. Rubbing 2 brain cells together to interpret the data is NOT learning to play. THINK BEFORE SPEAKING. There is next to nothing left for your brain to do....that's my point. Okay, HOW can that info inform me of my optimal rotation. If it's "quick and easy" you should be able to explain it in one to two sentences. How does recount tell me how to play. Go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyretechnic Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Heck just popup a window after a wipe sort of what we see at the end of a pvp match and that's good enough. Add interrupt count and "dispells" and we're good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) What?! So you can basically already customize your UI? I thought BW said that they were going to permit the use of addons in the near future? To topic: Damage Meters are just vital for succesful Operations and Flashpoints. You don't necesserely have to flame those with low DPS, you can just help them improve their play. So I don't mind at all if a feature like this would be implemented by BW.I really like how LOTRO has UI customization built in. Their model might be a good starting place for TOR. I wasn't aware that Turbine enabled 3rd party combat mods because our guild never used/needed them. BW will eventually permit the use of addons - sort of. They've stated they won't allow 3rd parties to develop their game for them. But they also know there is interest in the use of advanced tools for players who rely on them for advanced gaming. A customizable UI is being tested as I write this. There will be some form of metering as well, but it will be limited. I anticipate the vast majority of addon functionality will be built into the game so they don't have to continually chase a moving target. Comabt logs are integral in all this. In dev's recent interview with the EUs (wish I could remember the link) they came right out and said that combat logs would be implemented. It was experimented with in beta but was shelved because abilities queue so fast in this game that the logs filled up too quickly. The concurrence of multiple abilites having routines overlap and compete against each other, plus the addition of a log that was overwhelming the process, caused combat to bog and crash. A lot. As a result logging was disabled before open beta and dev continues to chase a stable medium, which explains some of the ability glitches we're seeing now. Once combat is fixed they'll work on adding logs. Edited January 10, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You as a leader discuss what happened.... assess what was not dont properly and tell your guys to get ready for another go and tell them this is the time... to step up your game, rememebr what to do... concentrate a bit more on one area than another... and you go at it.... Trust in your group.... people needing junk like this are probably pugs... get involved with a guild and community and make friends.... trust and help one another... dont be jerks Right, because someone is totally going to say "Yeah, my reflexes are a little muddy and I wasn't able do keep my rotation up." News flash, people always overestimate themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlescuba Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Definitely support, there is no reason not to have this in a game. Any game for that matter where your doing damage or healing or w/e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febibi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 But if I am doing NIGHTMARE MODE OPERATIONS, you know, the mode above hard mode, I need OPTIMAL PLAYERS. If I bring the disabled person, we'll lose. I'm speaking not of normal operations, or even flashpoints. I'm talking about Nightmare Mode Operations. Nightmare Mode Operations should be, and likely are, hard enough that they'd simply be impossible for people with disabilities. thats isulting for one.... two... be a good leader or member of a guild/community and trust one another... assess their gear and trial and error.... if something went wrong ask among eachother if somethign happened.... always rememebr this is a community of players and friends... a game not a business and that sometimes ..."stuff" happens.... man up and try again... or wait till yall are geared... and for groups sake.... help eachotehr gear up... dont just be a jerk and kick someone making them rage and incite others into a rage over it.... be a family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You as a leader discuss what happened.... assess what was not dont properly and tell your guys to get ready for another go and tell them this is the time... to step up your game, rememebr what to do... concentrate a bit more on one area than another... and you go at it.... Trust in your group.... people needing junk like this are probably pugs... get involved with a guild and community and make friends.... trust and help one another... dont be jerks If 10 people open their mouths, you'll hear 10 lies. We need metrics, because a player cannot be trusted to know how good or bad he is. He either a) doesn't know or b) will lie about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febibi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Okay, HOW can that info inform me of my optimal rotation. If it's "quick and easy" you should be able to explain it in one to two sentences. How does recount tell me how to play. Go ahead. optimum rotation sounds like you want the same thing time and time again.... might as well program it and watch the pc play for u.... have fun and remember... thigns change every fight and bombs dont always hit the same person or spot.... so your optimum rotation will never be the same due to other factors... have fun.... and if you need this..... push for an individual meter.... once thats won and granted by bioware... then push for the next step.... all at once is a no.... little by little may be a yes and another yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) You as a leader discuss what happened.... assess what was not dont properly and tell your guys to get ready for another go and tell them this is the time... to step up your game, rememebr what to do... concentrate a bit more on one area than another... and you go at it.... Trust in your group.... people needing junk like this are probably pugs... get involved with a guild and community and make friends.... trust and help one another... dont be jerks HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <snip> Thanks for the laugh, though. Edited January 10, 2012 by Taroen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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