Zerfalll Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 All well and true for the FIRST character of a faction.. Second time around it's all exactly the same. The only thing that changes is that "Lord" becomes "Sir" etc. The only thing I don't spacebar now is the class quests since I've done the side quests, bonuses and other stuff already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikusu Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Since when did questing become a grind? I guess WoW is an endless grind too? Little kiddies need to go try playing an Eastern MMO where you can't level from quests, dungeons, or PvP and 90% of your leveling comes from killing the same mob over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnac_fett Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Though I really enjoy the voice-acted cutscenes, everything outside of them is generic MMO fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutrik Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Give me an idea of what a non-grind level experience would consist of. I hear people saying that "it's kill x for y rewards" but never give a better alternative. There are people who get paid for designing video games. Those are the people who should come up with new ideas. Like these http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dynamic-events/dynamic-events-overview/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Cruiser Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 These people trumpeting the end of the level grind because of voice acting and cut scenes are probably the same people trumpeting this new and interactive combat because they decided to remove auto attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Cruiser Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 There are people who get paid for designing video games. Those are the people who should come up with new ideas. Like these http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dynamic-events/dynamic-events-overview/ Mythic Entertainment/BioWare Austin not withstanding of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlattrick Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 There are people who get paid for designing video games. Those are the people who should come up with new ideas. Like these http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dynamic-events/dynamic-events-overview/ Can't wait until the haters move onto the GW 2 forums and start flaming them instead, it's gonna be a good show for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 5/5 Flesh Raiders killed. Updating... 5...4...3...2...1.. BONUS QUEST! 0/45 Flesh Raiders killed Welcome to your grind-free experience. This ^^^ Half of the time they don't even bother changing up the type of mob needed to complete the next phase of the bonus mission. Think about that; it's the SAME mob you just killed, only now you need more of them and the ones you already killed don't count. Sure, in some areas the bonus quest progression actually makes sense. They have you killing mobs to find <item X> so that you can access <clicky Y> in the next phase and then face <elite Z> in the final phase. Can still be a grind, depending on the map locations of each of these parts, but it is at least a much better disguise. The kill X of Y, now kill X*10 or Y is about as straight-up grind as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlattrick Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 This ^^^ Half of the time they don't even bother changing up the type of mob needed to complete the next phase of the bonus mission. Think about that; it's the SAME mob you just killed, only now you need more of them and the ones you already killed don't count. Sure, in some areas the bonus quest progression actually makes sense. They have you killing mobs to find <item X> so that you can access <clicky Y> in the next phase and then face <elite Z> in the final phase. Can still be a grind, depending on the map locations of each of these parts, but it is at least a much better disguise. The kill X of Y, now kill X*10 or Y is about as straight-up grind as you can get. Are people not understanding that they're BONUS for a reason? You don't need to do them, what are you not understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpangelo Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 5/5 Flesh Raiders killed. Updating... 5...4...3...2...1.. BONUS QUEST! 0/45 Flesh Raiders killed Welcome to your grind-free experience. It's all about perspective. They took the grind away by adding a new dimension to quests. Instead of a motionless NPC who pops up a page of text, it's acted. (I'm not saying I'm illiterate, but come on, who can deny the difference of voiceover and a little bit of dialogue vs. that... it's not the same) And the bonus quest... again, perspective. MMO's (until someone TOTALLY revolutionizes them) are always gonna be kill X amount of whatever, gather Y amount of whatever else. It's how you mask it with excellent cinematics and story that make or break it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitan Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 How is the grind dead? they have just hidden it with a voice acted story, you still need to kill x number of y, or travel to one person to speak to them then travel back to another to speak to them, or hack 3 terminals guarded by mobs at each point which is then a bonus mission of killing x number of that mob. Grind is still there just harder to see So what if it is hidden.. That still makes this game more perfect.. Instead you actually gonna have a fun time while levelling, that you barely notice the kill x of that and the kill y of those.. Because you know that the person who assigned you this task, really depends on you to do it.. And not like taking 7 quests, go out and complete them, and go back and take another stack of quests.. While you keep looking at you're EXP bar and just say, oh man so long till i level.. Playing this game I personally feel its more like, well whats gonna happen after i complete this quest, and suddenly you just see that Republic/Empire logo above you head and say, oh i got a level, i didn't even notice that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritask Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Since when did questing become a grind? I guess WoW is an endless grind too? Little kiddies need to go try playing an Eastern MMO where you can't level from quests, dungeons, or PvP and 90% of your leveling comes from killing the same mob over and over. This. Anyone that has played EQ for any respectable amount of time will find the "grind" in Swtor, refreshing and fluid...as opposed to sitting down on your horse in a corner with 5 other toons, blasting mob after mob after mob after mob after mob to shreds. Though both styles are enjoyable for, considering its an MMO...not sure what people whining about "grind" were expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitan Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Since when did questing become a grind? I guess WoW is an endless grind too? Little kiddies need to go try playing an Eastern MMO where you can't level from quests, dungeons, or PvP and 90% of your leveling comes from killing the same mob over and over. Lineage 2 anyone?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrolight Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) It's all about perspective. They took the grind away by adding a new dimension to quests. Instead of a motionless NPC who pops up a page of text, it's acted. (I'm not saying I'm illiterate, but come on, who can deny the difference of voiceover and a little bit of dialogue vs. that... it's not the same) To me that doesn't lessen the "grind". Read a quest to kill 10 mobs or listen to a guy telling me to kill 10 mobs is the same, it's killing 10 mobs. It's just a different style of delivery. That being said people are trying to create "grind" where there is none. The "grind" was what people did in EQ/FFXI and that early gen of MMOs. Kill mobs to level and then kill more mobs after that. Questing removed the "grind" aka level grind. It has not existed in a western MMO for a long time. Rep grinding well that is pretty central to any MMO Edited January 8, 2012 by Pyrolight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Are people not understanding that they're BONUS for a reason? You don't need to do them, what are you not understanding? Are you not understanding the lazy design of having you kill 15 of a mob, then 45 more of the SAME MOB? That is the very definition of grind. It's simply disguised better by voice overs or animated pop-up training droids. BTW, if you are going to go on about not needing to do the "bonus" missions, you may want to stop and think about what that argument means. All quests outside of your class story are optional. That's right, all of them. *Just to be clear, I'm not even complaining about the grind (though I do think the above example is simply super lazy design that is disappointing), it's a part of MMOs, and it's not like it's a Korean MMO grind. I just don't think it's right to claim that BW got rid of the grind when they clearly did not. Edited January 8, 2012 by Vodalus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooggums Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I skipped Balmorra, most of Tatooine, most of Nar Shadda, and just finished a little bit of Alderaan and I'm max level for Alderaan. The only thing I did on Balmorra was the class quests, the Tatooine and Nar-Shadda included the quests on the way to the class quests. With a few PVP arenas, Flashpoints, and spaceship battles I've over leveled every zone. There is no need to do anything you don't want to in this game, there is plenty of class quest and alternate fun things to do that don't require you doing the side quests if you don't want to. That's what is meant by 'no grind'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Rabbit Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Truth is people here play a game with the fact in mind that they have to kill "x" creatures. I play with the "That person needs help, and the only thing I can do is to kill as many of those creatures as possible" It is all in your mind, but it works... in SWTOR I do not feel the grind, I feel only the story (level 40 so far, did all side quests +bonus and all flashpoints available). If you can feel the grind, then I feel sorry for your mind which is stuck. A game with no "x" kills like Mass Effect for example, still brings you through a "dungeon" with a series of enemies until you reach the end of that "dungeon", you still need to kill 50+ more mobs to do so, but because you do not have a counter you think it is different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboudreaux Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) How is the grind dead? they have just hidden it with a voice acted story, you still need to kill x number of y, or travel to one person to speak to them then travel back to another to speak to them, or hack 3 terminals guarded by mobs at each point which is then a bonus mission of killing x number of that mob. Grind is still there just harder to see grind is a term which means killing mobs constantly for very little xp over and over with no stimulation to the human brain the grind is gone in this game, me matey! oh and "grinding" did not come from wow .. it dates way before wow was even a wet dream Edited January 8, 2012 by bboudreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GumBoil Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 So now you get a 2 minute voice acted 'mission' to step out the door and collect 3 ojjimewhatsists to return to a character 60 seconds later, you will never see again, and really could not care less about them. Don't get me wrong I think voice adds a lot to the main mission but some of the side missions you just wonder why? And one has to ask, this 'levelling grind' you speak of...it's still there you know, sure its more fun but .......whatever not worth trying to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelitt Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Thats weird cause i found the game takes "do the same exact quests endlessly" to a whole new level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyZaMa Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Thank Gawd! Someone has finally designed an MMO with Gamers in mind. With the Voice Acted missions -- yes, even the side quest are voice acted, the grinding for levels is officially dead! Thank you SWTOR for killing this beast by making leveling fun, engaging, and very immersive. I actually look forward to leveling. Its no longer just a race to the highest level to begin the "real" game. In SWTOR the "real" game starts at level 1 with your very first mission and your very first dialogue decision! Awesome!!! Couldn't agree more! This is the first MMO ever that i actually love leveling! And I can't wait to start my other character and do it all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GumBoil Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 These people trumpeting the end of the level grind because of voice acting and cut scenes are probably the same people trumpeting this new and interactive combat because they decided to remove auto attacks. Yes and the the same people that will be disenchanted ...just a few months later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaonnor Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Why is it that every positive post on these forums has to sound like Bioware paid them to say it? Also - the grind is just disguised in hopes that people like you will think it is not there. Kill 45 of these for the bonus quest is still pretty grindy. Especially when Part 1 is 45, Part 2 is 45 and then part 3 is a boss. Thats 91 mobs you've just been coerced into grinding. Enjoy your "no grind MMO". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaonnor Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yes and the the same people that will be disenchanted ...just a few months later. Shhhh don't spoil the surprise for them when they realize everyone else has already seen what a disenchanting game this is and has already left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Rabbit Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Why is it that every positive post on these forums has to sound like Bioware paid them to say it? For the same reason that people like you attack this posts, making you sound like Blizzard paid you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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