Can you address our concerns?

[ProfessorWalsh]

... but that would be just venting out. This is what you (us) all do here. There is no communication between the devs and us because they are busy writing press releases about how many people purchsed the game. On top of that nobody's gonna plow through all these posts saying basically the same thing (which is: a) the dmg output is too low, b) the amount of abilities required to use has been overshot by miles), partly because they are interspersed by trolls saying everything is fine partly because, c'mon, you paid already and will keep on paying.

 

Yeah.

 

I'm really disappointed right now regarding the lack of communication. Our class is the most important class in this game hands down. The Jedi Knight is Star Wars. We shouldn't be having problems like the problems we are having and the complete silence on the matter is... Disheartening.

[damolawler]

My issue is that our damage is low.

 

Ranged classes can deal high damage at range AND in melee. We can only inflict damage in melee, and even then the damage a ranged class puts out is higher. How can this be? We have lightsabers, and troopers have the butt of a gun? How can the damage dealt by a bloody butt of a gun be equal to or higher than that of a lightsaber?

 

Either up our damage levels a bit, Lower the cooldowns on some of our defensive abilities, or increase the duration of those abilties. Saber ward lasts a measly 6 seconds! Force stasis lasts 3 seconds! That's pitiful.

 

The fact is, in PvE, we are the only class that struggles to get through content unless we significantly out-level the content.

Edited January 9, 2012 by damolawler

[Vember]

I must be an oddball here. I feel damn near godlike on my sentinel after leveling up a shadow...I can destroy mobs my shadow couldn't survive against when my shadow was a higher level. I honestly don't find the rotation all that difficult....its not like its rocket science or anything.

 

The one single solitary problem I have with sentinel right now is the lack of any ranged ability for pvp, and no baseline stun.

[Logisitcs]

Go Watchman/Annihilator, I'm dead serious re-spec for levelling and follow this guide

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=72872

Use this site to help with the mirrored abilities http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Sith-Warrior-Jedi-Knight-Mirror-Terminology-Dictionary

The class isn't as complicated as ppl make it out to be, you don't have to click 20 buttons

It's so simple:

Force Leap -> Overload Saber -> Zealous Strike -> Cauterize -> Merciless Slash

 

The mid-fight priority is thus:

 

Zen > Overload Saber > Cauterize > Merciless Slash > *Focus Builder ala Strike, Force Leap, Zealous Strike > Slash if everything else is on CD

 

and continue with keeping OS, Cauterize, and MS on CD for bleeds, HOW is that difficult? For PvP it's the same thing just throw in Leg Slash

 

I solo Heroic 2's with healing companions and even take down champions, I rarely blow cooldowns cause Doc/Quinn are beasts mixed with the heals from Zen and the bleeds, there are some concerns, but "too little damage" and "an overly complicated play style" are not one of them

Edited January 9, 2012 by Logisitcs

[Nvikki]

I solo Heroic 2's with healing companions and even take down champions, I rarely blow cooldowns cause Doc/Quinn are beasts mixed with the heals from Zen and the bleeds, there are some concerns, but "too little damage" and "an overly complicated play style" are not one of them

 

So you link a guide and then disagree with one of the Cons stated in the guide:

"Damage relies on constant monitoring of skill CDs, Rage, incoming Rage and Fury"

 

I.e. that the playstyle is pretty complicated. Whether or not it's overly complicated, of course is a matter of opinion. Note, however, that there are other classes to play, and the playstyle of these classes can inform our opinion about what a complex playstyle is, and how it functions.

 

BTW, I solo two man heroics on my Marauder too, my BH just solos them easier. I also like the BH's resource system better, as it is not something cut and pasted from that "other" MMO. Finally, I know why the BH solos easier; it's because of crowd control.

 

BTW, I'm not trying to nitpick your post, I am completely comfortable that other people play the class better. I am not sure, though, if I am comfortable with having to have some sort of exceptional talent in order to even compete with other classes that can be very effective in the hands of average players. Honestly, my BH feels heroic, my Jedi doesn't.

[Rophez]

/signed

[Naroga]

I agree with a lot of these points.

 

While I can do respectable damage in PvP, I get blown out of the water by a competent Bounty Hunter / Sorcerer / Sniper / Operative / Assasin...

 

One of my guildmates who I PvP regularly with is a Jedi Shadow. We are equally geared, but he almost always does 80,000 more damage than me in a warzone. He says it's because he never dies and therefore has 100% uptime.

[JediLupus]

I am not going to discount there is a lot of abilities to sift through, and figure out which is useful for your given spec and what not, but its not broken.

 

Lvl 39 Combat and I have to say with Doc I can chain group to group and not care about if there is a gold in the group and plan cool downs accordingly. With Kira out you have to be on your toes a lot more, but with Doc I am just plain lazy and careless... and get away with it.

 

Comparing experiences with other guildies sents put out A LOT of damage if you know what you are doing.

[silent-sniper]

I so far am a level 33 sentinal, I decided over a year ago my first proper class would be a jedi knight (since i played through both kotor1/2) so I have been playing and decided to be a sentinal, so I could duel wield, like i did in kotor, and I feel completly underpowered, my alt IA is insane, he can almost solo most heroics he comes across, my sentinal struggles and with him pvp is almost unbarable, I run around with T7 (originally I have Kira, but she has become unplayable) I take way too much damage, have no real CC abilities, I am geared up in all orange/blue/purple equiptment, and I am getting annoy, I have no problem with my class not being easy to play, but its getting to the point where I am not finding it as fun to play because i dont feel like i am doing the dps I should be. I just hope it gets changed soon, I am not trying to flame bioware, or troll ect... I would just like to feel competive, I have grown attached to my sentinal, so I dont want to drop him, but I dont feel like I even compare with other classes of the same level.... (sorry about the rant)

[JediLupus]

I so far am a level 33 sentinal, I decided over a year ago my first proper class would be a jedi knight (since i played through both kotor1/2) so I have been playing and decided to be a sentinal, so I could duel wield, like i did in kotor, and I feel completly underpowered, my alt IA is insane, he can almost solo most heroics he comes across, my sentinal struggles and with him pvp is almost unbarable, I run around with T7 (originally I have Kira, but she has become unplayable) I take way too much damage, have no real CC abilities, I am geared up in all orange/blue/purple equiptment, and I am getting annoy, I have no problem with my class not being easy to play, but its getting to the point where I am not finding it as fun to play because i dont feel like i am doing the dps I should be. I just hope it gets changed soon, I am not trying to flame bioware, or troll ect... I would just like to feel competive, I have grown attached to my sentinal, so I dont want to drop him, but I dont feel like I even compare with other classes of the same level.... (sorry about the rant)

 

The thing to keep in mind is the class doesn't get all its proper toys until ~40. Watchmen with the built in heal seems to be the preferred way level, so if you are running around combat or focus, give watchmen a try. The early 30's patch was rather rough. It does get better.

[Bakarn]

The only thing that I find messy about Jedi Knights (particularly Guardians) atm is the manner in which Focus is generated in PvP. It's not like rage starving on warriors where they could just SPAM high damage abilities in addition to a really high damaging autoattack. Our damage is already hugely throttled by cooldowns, so I don't see the point in having cooldowns, and Focus starvation.

 

Plasma Brand is also bugged and I feel should be sold as an additional Focus generator given the damage it does. Other than that, I feel pretty good.

 

Abilities that probably need looking at for Guardians are Saber Throw (needs to be a ranged focus builder, 4.5s CD, 2 focus), Slash (should gain some kind of benefit), the burn talents (not hugely useful) and Plasma Brand.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Bakarn

[silent-sniper]

The thing to keep in mind is the class doesn't get all its proper toys until ~40. Watchmen with the built in heal seems to be the preferred way level, so if you are running around combat or focus, give watchmen a try. The early 30's patch was rather rough. It does get better.

 

Thanks for the advice, I have gone down the Combat route (I think thats what its called, the 2nd spec) do you think I would find it easier respecing to Watchman??

[JediLupus]

Thanks for the advice, I have gone down the Combat route (I think thats what its called, the 2nd spec) do you think I would find it easier respecing to Watchman??

 

From what everyone says, I would think so. On occasion I have switched to the watchmen stance for the self healed and had better luck than with the combat stance.

 

I leveled as Combat and found it rather painful until I got doc. I am one of those stubborn people who will make it work regardless how bad it is. I was playing a feral cat druid in WoW before they were buffed, and leveled a balance druid as balance(meaning no gear or talents to make the spec work).

[silent-sniper]

From what everyone says, I would think so. On occasion I have switched to the watchmen stance for the self healed and had better luck than with the combat stance.

 

I leveled as Combat and found it rather painful until I got doc. I am one of those stubborn people who will make it work regardless how bad it is. I was playing a feral cat druid in WoW before they were buffed, and leveled a balance druid as balance(meaning no gear or talents to make the spec work).

 

I know what you mean, I also played a feral cat druid for a long time, when abouts am I going to get doc (level wise)? (I have done every level up to now, just faced darth angral)

[JediLupus]

I know what you mean, I also played a feral cat druid for a long time, when abouts am I going to get doc (level wise)? (I have done every level up to now, just faced darth angral)

 

I just got him around 38, but I am behind the class arch level wise. You get Doc about halfway through balmora.

[silent-sniper]

Thanks, I will probably, keep my spec until I get doc and see if things improve

[JediLupus]

Thanks, I will probably, keep my spec until I get doc and see if things improve

 

I feel like someone put the game on easy when I got doc. I like kira a lot more, but enjoy the next to zero down time of Doc. I go out and kill stuff with Doc, and switch out to Kira when I do turn ins....

[Gyakujou]

I'll like to stress one point already covered, IMO too briefly on this thread.

 

Melee DPS and virtually all boss fights (except for one that I can think of) is a joke.

 

For example, I play a marauder and I spend more time running between mind traps and Soa, running away from lightning orbs than I do DPSing the boss.

 

My ranged counterparts just stand somewhat in the center to be in range of everything and have a jolly good time going through their DPS rotations.

 

From my experience, you bring too much melee DPS and you can't down Soa before enraged timer goes off and the group wipes.

 

The same goes for many, many bosses out there.

 

I'm a lvl 50 Marauder and already decently well geared +1400 strength. I can tell everyone that Mars/Sens will tear your face off in PvE and PvP (but not any more than a +1400 primary stat of any other DPS class) ... the problem is we don't get very many chances to stand there and put damage on anything.

 

Have you ever tried closing down a sniper who's covered on the bridge in huttball? lol. Can't force charge...you have to run at him...all the while he sees you coming and you're being shot at. Once you get to him, he stuns, position himself in whatever way necessary to knock you off the platform...since you can't force charge at him because he's already back in cover, you cease to become his problem for the next 20 or so seconds for you to get back up on that platform...in which case he just starts shooting at you again.

 

I don't even bother with those encounters anymore. If a sniper starts shooting at me, I just force camouflage and run away cause it's stupid to try to attack him.

[Shinjin]

Can't speak to Sentinels but I've not experienced any game breaking issues on my Defense Guardian.

 

The most pressing issues for me:

 

1. Riposte sometimes not following through\working\whatever.

2. LARGE BUTT ROBES

3. No non-robe\hood\cape customizable chest armor.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Shinjin

[Heraclea]

I got as far as Tatooine on my level 26 Jedi Guardian, but I will probably mothball the character and make my Trooper my main. When I decide to move forward with the character, I will likely wait until lots of rested XP and ignore the story line and do non-elite area quests until I outlevel the story and can catch up.

 

The character got slightly tougher (and a lot less fun) by going to a tank spec, but this is not the way I had wanted to run.

 

My trooper is a lot more fun. A healing companion makes a large difference. 90 second cooldown on medpacs is ridiculous.

 

Strong mobs are a bit too strong, and elite mobs are much too elite. I avoid them even on the trooper; when you have to defeat 20 sand people, spending time one one that's immune to most CC and takes 5 times as much damage to kill just doesn't pay. On the other hand, the trooper has soloed everything in the storyline, and the Jedi always ends up looking for a teammate who will volunteer to help clear it.

[Logisitcs]

So you link a guide and then disagree with one of the Cons stated in the guide:

"Damage relies on constant monitoring of skill CDs, Rage, incoming Rage and Fury"

 

I.e. that the playstyle is pretty complicated. Whether or not it's overly complicated, of course is a matter of opinion. Note, however, that there are other classes to play, and the playstyle of these classes can inform our opinion about what a complex playstyle is, and how it functions.

 

BTW, I solo two man heroics on my Marauder too, my BH just solos them easier. I also like the BH's resource system better, as it is not something cut and pasted from that "other" MMO. Finally, I know why the BH solos easier; it's because of crowd control.

 

BTW, I'm not trying to nitpick your post, I am completely comfortable that other people play the class better. I am not sure, though, if I am comfortable with having to have some sort of exceptional talent in order to even compete with other classes that can be very effective in the hands of average players. Honestly, my BH feels heroic, my Jedi doesn't.

 

1.) I meant defensive CD's such as Rebuke and Saber Ward. You still have to rotate through OS, Cauterize, and MS to do any form of damage, that's 3 dots to be aware of

 

2.) Nowhere in my post did I say our utility and crowd control was fine

 

3.) You don't need exceptional talent to play this class you really don't, it's not hard

You jump in, do your bleeds, spam filler, mob dead

There are PvP guides on these forums and mara section that'll show you how to play the class effectively, it's not complicated and it does not take exceptional skill.

 

Also, single target PvE, Mara/Sent does more dps than the "easy" BH

[Surfiehbk]

The Jedi Knight is possibly the worst designed class in the history of MMOs. Even EQ had better classes. There are so many problems that have been fully documented in this thread. If these concerns aren't addressed, then there is no way that I am going to resubscribe at the end of the month.

[HaleTheFreeVoice]

Yeah see this is exactly why i haven't been able to choose between the two classes...they both suck completely. i agree with every word that everyone is saying.

 

jedi=no force attacks basically? broken

jedi=medium robes look no different then light robes except legs. broken

jedi=companions are all broken and horrible. broken

jedi=storylines are completely different and make you feel like theyare in seperate realms or something. stupid.

jedi-ending awesome but kinda hard to build an expansion onto that isn't it? rushed.

jedi=one girl companion but sith get two? stupid

jedi= setinels cant wear heavy armor but were lead on that way. jerks

jedi= jedi knights are the masters of lightsaber combat but can't use a double bladed lightsaber? really lorebreakingly stupid.

jedi=broken

let me stop there with that. why did you guys do that? if anything, a stealth shadow would have dual wielding and a jedi sentinel would have double bladed. i dont unerstand why they were switched..

 

sith=boring story. <

sith=kill "him"- would never happen

sith=revoiced NPC from Kotor- dont get me started

sith=literally lift and grab ur saber/ OR oh so cool. you have one....thrown to you. soooo awesome, its not like we coulda used a cool...awesome lightsaber building cinematic....-.- stupid

sith=jaesa is a psychopathic freak-she could chill a tiny bit

sith=no hood and mask at same time?

sith=broken

 

 

 

^fix

[Vember]

The Jedi Knight is possibly the worst designed class in the history of MMOs. Even EQ had better classes. There are so many problems that have been fully documented in this thread. If these concerns aren't addressed, then there is no way that I am going to resubscribe at the end of the month.

 

It is a very well designed class that, in the proper hands, is flat out dangerous. Just because you can't figure it out, or can't take the time to read about it and learn what you can do with it, doesn't mean the devs did a bad job. I, for one, am exceptionally pleased with the Sentinel. Like I said before, I originally made my sentinel to be a biochem alt for my shadow, and ended up switching mains, its that good.

[Nvikki]

1.) I meant defensive CD's such as Rebuke and Saber Ward. You still have to rotate through OS, Cauterize, and MS to do any form of damage, that's 3 dots to be aware of

 

2.) Nowhere in my post did I say our utility and crowd control was fine

 

3.) You don't need exceptional talent to play this class you really don't, it's not hard

You jump in, do your bleeds, spam filler, mob dead

There are PvP guides on these forums and mara section that'll show you how to play the class effectively, it's not complicated and it does not take exceptional skill.

 

Also, single target PvE, Mara/Sent does more dps than the "easy" BH

 

1) I'll concede the point. Please note that the only thing that I am conceding is that you did not contradict the very guide you linked. :hands you Visine:

2) I wasn't suggesting that you had stated that JK CC was fine, I was just pointing out that BH was better in every way. Except, I didn't sign up to play SW:TOR for the Bounty Hunter class.

3) Again, it's a comparatively busy playstyle just to handle trash, while a different class that engaged at the same time would already be setting up for the next group.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Nvikki
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