The Secret to Guardian Tanking

[Jonlo]

I'm going to be honest. Whenever I tanked I never had a problem with generating focus. In fact most of the time I have found myself focus flooded and had to dump a lot of it into slash. So no, focus is never a problem, at least up till lvl 25.

 

And yes, a lot of this can be said in the tank forum. This probably would be a better place for this discussion.

 

Yeah at lvl 25 I was completely flooded. Honestly, we need less Courage and Cyclonic Sweeps, and more damage buffs/CD on strike reductions, or better defensive skills.

[seraphimm]

Yeah at lvl 25 I was completely flooded. Honestly, we need less Courage and Cyclonic Sweeps, and more damage buffs/CD on strike reductions, or better defensive skills.

 

Then the 9 second OS has a slight advantage to the 15 second GS in more than just DPS. It fits functionally better

[Demitries]

Yeah at lvl 25 I was completely flooded. Honestly, we need less Courage and Cyclonic Sweeps, and more damage buffs/CD on strike reductions, or better defensive skills.

 

Making Blade Barrier a 3 charged ability with slightly higher damage absorption would be a nice start.

[RachaelStorm]

From the City of Heroes original "Big Bad Boulder Babe" (Stone Tank) Awesome post! TY! Edited December 14, 2011 by RachaelStorm

[Truck]

Prior to this post, I was thinking of going all defense and dumping the remainder in vigilance or focus. Thank you OP for posting this guide. I will definitely be trying out your vigilance/defense spec. I was in one of the earlier betas, tried the JG, loved it. Then during the Thanksgiving weekend, I skipped JG to not ruin it for live. Definitely looking forward to playing this week, and using your tips and evaluations.

[Gidrea]

Like a previous poster, I'm replying in order to have this on my subs. list.

 

And thank you for this, it was well written and informative. I'll be checking back when I get to the point of needing help!

 

[Philmors]

Yeah at lvl 25 I was completely flooded. Honestly, we need less Courage and Cyclonic Sweeps, and more damage buffs/CD on strike reductions, or better defensive skills.

 

Yeah, I got to level 25 as well and felt a bit focus flooded as well at times. Honestly, I think some of those defensive talents in the vigilance tree need to be moved to the defense tree. The fact that it's looking more appealing to go deep vigilance for tanking means the defense tree definately needs some work at the higher tiers.

[thegreebler]

You know that the ole "Losing my religion" song comes to mind. LOL.

 

This grobble guide, has changed the way I greeble about knight. And while I have no idea whether I will greeble as a BH or a JK, I welcome this greebly guide!

[erPresidente]

Since the old forum i find this alternative build very interesting , i have just a great concern.

How's good the leaping frenesy againt fight/boss that must be kept always in one position? O when let'em turn around facing the party means wipe? (like any dragon boss in typical fantasy MMorpg), o when two or more tank must stay always close to the target cause the fight need a tricky aggro management? (THink about Vaelastraz). There'ara more example to do, fight where tank and boss have to stay still cause healers need line of sight on tank for healing but must avoid line of sight on the boss cause lethal "on sight" dot/debuff.

Again i think this hybrid build is interesting and funny to play (leaping around like Yoda is great) but i fear that when harder and tricky fight boss come , leaping around lettin the boss walk freely won't be an option.

[Madoxx]

Nice Post man really informative

[Cuaarl_Hosmi]

Thankyou a very nice, proffesional and witty little guide you have there. This will be my first proper tank in an mmo (i'm normally a healer) and i'll be sure to use this guide as a referance as i start my journey into TOR (today hopefully:)).

[Docj]

nice post going to bookmark this

[Atermon]

Nice,thank you m8.

[Alohen]

Very nice guide, Tends to bring sense to a lot of things that You dont really think about in some cases, I'd like to see though, What you think or recommend of a Leveling up Spec and Tactics when Soloing Elites or Multiples Mobs including Strong ones. Nice none the less.

[Gundrago]

Excellent post, without experience playing the game I had just assumed that I would max the defence tree. I especially love when there is actual variety in specs, reminds me of when I was able to spec my pally for threat in BC to allow our dps to go all out on fights like brutallus.

[Darkwun]

nice input

[CthulhuRyleh]

I like the spec you went with combining both Vigilance and Defense, never thought it would work but by going over it, sounds legitimate.

Although I doubt this build will remain in the game for awhile, I bet they are gonna change it to be: "If you want to tank you invest in this tree, if you want to dps you invest in this tree"

[ARowl]

I like the spec you went with combining both Vigilance and Defense, never thought it would work but by going over it, sounds legitimate.

Although I doubt this build will remain in the game for awhile, I bet they are gonna change it to be: "If you want to tank you invest in this tree, if you want to dps you invest in this tree"

 

that is what im concerned about... Im really looking forward to trying this tree out for myself, but will be upset if I will have to respec in the future cause they change things up. oh well. i guess thats the risk with specing in 2 trees

[seraphimm]

I like the spec you went with combining both Vigilance and Defense, never thought it would work but by going over it, sounds legitimate.

Although I doubt this build will remain in the game for awhile, I bet they are gonna change it to be: "If you want to tank you invest in this tree, if you want to dps you invest in this tree"

 

 

That would mean only 2 trees. There has to be a hybrid/Augmentation tree that adds a little bit to both the DPS main tree or the Tank main tree, that would allow Tanks to do a bit more damage or DPS to off tank.

 

This is what I see in the Vigilance tree

 

Situation as it is though is that some of the abilities in the vigilance tree trump those in the defense tree for both tanking AND dps (For instance, Effluence is far better than courage, is rated in the same tier and is cheaper to max out)

 

Not that you can/should really compare one tree to another, but specifically those two perks augment the same skill in the same way. If you take into effect courage also effects blade storm (one OR the other not both) it would explain why it was twice as many points... but then they added that overly complicated stacking and timed proc that just adds too much overhead.

 

Tanks already have more to pay attention to than do the average DPS, why make our skills more complicated to keep track of as well.

 

Just my opinion, to balance these trees and make defense the 'tank tree'

 

1) Solidified force and improved sundering strikes would completely swap places.

2) Hilt strike should move to tier 4 from tier 5

3) courage would be the same as effluence - cheaper to cast, but maybe only in soresu form. No reason for blade storm to complicate courage, it's already in Momentum

4)Profound resolution would swap with defiance

5) Protector would swap with stasis mastery

 

 

 

This would strengthen up the 'Tank tree" (defense) and make vigilance more of a PVP/Augmentation tree (placing the bonus holds and breaks useable more in PVP in vigilance.

 

Just my $0.02

Edited December 14, 2011 by seraphimm

[Wylfing]

Courage could actually do something entirely different, like a percent chance to finish the cooldown on Challenging Call.

[CthulhuRyleh]

To mr.seraphim, I am having a hard time finding the usefulness of Guardian strike, clearly you decided to go without and I can understand why, there are clearly very very good tanking abilities in vigilance that make up for not having guardian strike. As far as I can tell it stacks three sunder armors and does some damage, I don't care about damage I'm a tank. With the improved sundering strikes skill it which you get very early on means that your sundering strike accomplishes only one less stack of sunder.

Do you think this is slightly broken? or am I just a fool?

[seraphimm]

To mr.seraphim, I am having a hard time finding the usefulness of Guardian strike, clearly you decided to go without and I can understand why, there are clearly very very good tanking abilities in vigilance that make up for not having guardian strike. As far as I can tell it stacks three sunder armors and does some damage, I don't care about damage I'm a tank. With the improved sundering strikes skill it which you get very early on means that your sundering strike accomplishes only one less stack of sunder.

Do you think this is slightly broken? or am I just a fool?

 

You're not a fool, but it isn't really broken either.

 

When you look at all the classes as a whole, Guardian strike fairs decently among the collection of other 31 point talents. There are some better, but there are some worse (I think the vigilance 31 point talent is among the worse).

The issue arises with Vigilance's TWENTY-ONE point talent.

 

Alone; Guardian Slash > Overhead Slash, so the point differences is understandable. Add vigilance to the mix though (Almost a required tier 4 skill) and suddenly Overhead slash becomes 30% stronger.

 

Since the items you lose by moving those extra 12 points from defense to vigilance don't really lead to a net decrease in tanking (because you are adding Effluence and Unremitting) it only makes sense.

 

it simply looks to me that each tree was developed independently. Had Unremitting been placed in the defense tree all the math would be different because it would no longer matter the comparison of GS to OS, you couldn't afford to trade. Unremitting is an excellent tank skill, and would make the difference in the GS/OS differential.

Edited December 14, 2011 by seraphimm

[CthulhuRyleh]

You're not a fool, but it isn't really broken either.

 

When you look at all the classes as a whole, Guardian strike fairs decently among the collection of other 31 point talents. There are some better, but there are some worse (I think the vigilance 31 point talent is among the worse).

The issue arises with Vigilance's TWENTY-ONE point talent.

 

Alone; Guardian Slash > Overhead Slash, so the point differences is understandable. Add vigilance to the mix though (Almost a required tier 4 skill) and suddenly Overhead slash becomes 30% stronger.

 

Since the items you lose by moving those extra 12 points from defense to vigilance don't really lead to a net decrease in tanking (because you are adding Effluence and Unremitting) it only makes sense.

 

it simply looks to me that each tree was developed independently. Had Unremitting been placed in the defense tree all the math would be different because it would no longer matter the comparison of GS to OS, you couldn't afford to trade. Unremitting is an excellent tank skill, and would make the difference in the GS/OS differential.

 

Well Thank you very much for your insight it was great, I have been planning on tanking as the guardian for quite some time now and stupidly I only briefly glanced over the vigilance tree, and when I realized the usefulness of Effluence I fully understand why.

Thanks again!

[Atamasama]

That would mean only 2 trees. There has to be a hybrid/Augmentation tree that adds a little bit to both the DPS main tree or the Tank main tree, that would allow Tanks to do a bit more damage or DPS to off tank.

Actually, the developers stated numerous times (Zoeller in particular) that they do not support hybrid builds. Their intention is to allow you to do them at your peril, but that they're balancing content around the assumption that you'll pick one tree and max it out. That's intended to be the most optimal way to build a character.

 

That's why when the idea of this build was brought up on the old boards I was so skeptical. Because it shouldn't work so well. It definitely shouldn't work better than going fully into Defense for a tank. But for all appearances it does seem like it would work better.

 

Honestly, it doesn't bother me. I don't care if our trees don't work according to the developers' "vision" as long as they work. If we can tank well with some weird hybrid of the trees then that's what I'm going to do.

[seraphimm]

Another equalizer would be if guardian slash ALSO added an instance of Blade Barrier.

 

Even in Blade barrier's weak form, 2 separate ways to make it proc would change things heavily