blackcerberus Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Guess I have "military reflexes" because I can trinket something within 3 seconds...which is the time it takes from the knockdown to actually get the backblast in. ok, so the operative is only 8m from you and you have 7k-8k health less left...even if we leave vanish aside (big IF, but whatever floats your boat) I woulnt say you have the upper hand on the upcoming battle, huh? If I don't trinket a stun from ranged? I am just as dead. If you trinket an op/sc after the opener but you get no backup, you are quite likely dead too if the op/sc has keybinded more than 3 skills ... ....... ok, I concede, most of them dont. A BH/Commando can kill me just as fast with trinket/adrenal/expertise potion stacking, plus warzone buff, plus sent/marauder buff. not as fast, not without you having to reaction as fast, and the op/sc dont need half of that to produce similar results. but we both know that, dont we? only one of us is willing to admit it, and the other one wants to sweep the issue under the rug. You are harming noone but yourself with your pig-headedness, as I said bioWare is gonna go medieval on yer as.s Im trying to save you from yourself, bro, but you keep making this difficult. I got bored, Im out, have fun your way. I just hope the upcoming career balance patch doesnt get me drowned in op/sc tears because their class has ended up in shambles. Edited January 8, 2012 by blackcerberus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 So if you attack an organised group you die quick? What has that got to do with anything? Anyone attacking a group gets smashed, the difference is, if your group attacks another group you are free to sneak in and kill one of them in seconds, then vanish, then kill another in seconds. It would take an extremely well organised group to counter your insane opening dmg output whilst simultaneously concentraing on the fight they are already engaged in. They are worse in every single way then an assassin/shadow in group combat where mouthbreathers are not playing. Their opener fills resolve bar = CC on a healer. Sin/shadow is the BEST interupt class. Their stun is melee range and their aoe mez breaks on dmg which makes it useless with tank stacking (SiN/Shadow dps). Sin/shadow's stun is ranged. Sin/Shadow can stealth and instagib people out of stealth in 2 of 3 warzones. Knock off bridges and into fires. That is a 15-20,000 dmg opener on multiple people. People don't want to look at it that way though cus they are stupid... If they fail to get their opener they are the most useless class in the game. Meanwhile sin/shadow is as good as it gets out of stealth. Most importantly? Guard/taunts which is all that matters in this game. Shared dmg is easy to heal. Shared dmg negates half the CC's in this game. Like I said come back after they introduce rated. Op's scoundrels MIGHT have a place as heals. Not as dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voidsurvivor Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 they made very clear with the slicing overnerf that was a plain lie. If you keep believing after that they dont concede to he who cries the loudest, you are in for a really, really, REALLY awful surprise. I am amazed, you actually believe they read posts in the pvp forum. Without a combat log, which has been asked for many times, there really is no point in providing feedback. Wait, let me post this screenshot of class X doing Y amount of damage without the tools to provide any details or context... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulukord Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 All I can say enjoy it will it lasts. Nerfhammer a comminl' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRygarr Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 All I can say enjoy it will it lasts. Nerfhammer a comminl' True dat. Bye bye Operatives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theMornox Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 scoundrels/operatives take greatest advantage of consumables like adrenals, relics etc. the nerf needs to be aimed at consumables. the class is not op in my perspective (rank 45 focus guardian). there is a post of an operative where he precisely describes HOW he maximized his burst with several consumables and called for a nerf himself:http://www.swtor.com/de/community/showthread.php?t=141362 take a look at it. it will change your view on the issue (as it changed mine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 All I can say enjoy it will it lasts. Nerfhammer a comminl' As sad as It may sound, they are not going to nerf op/scoundrels, they are going to nerf the adrenals/medpacks/pvp exp buffs, that I can guarantee, because that is the source of their OP'ness. Then we are back to square one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virre Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm not understanding why they would nerf these classes when we've got Sorcs and BHs spamming high DPS attacks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchAUstin Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 yeah Sorc and Commando do more DPS at the end of every warzone, so you guys are next. So have fun spamming 1 move and dealing more damage than us while it lasts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djvapid Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 All classes can do the same with stacking buffs (the real problem). Ranged shouldn't be able to 100-0 melee from ranged by your logic. The fastest I have died has involved an assasssin. Second fastest was probably a bounty hunter. PvP is not balanced in WoW until endgame either. WoW is balanced by the resilience stat, this game is balanced by the expertise stat. NOONE is forcing you to pvp at low levels. In fact seeing that you can cap badges from like 40-44? I would say anyone leveling only in warzones? Wasting their time. If you are a tank crying about scoundrels/ops? Wait until you get gear. 20 k health in warzones? 3 shot? Yeah right... Balanced...by...the...expertise...stat. Wow. Just...wow. Expertise is the most broken concept out there for any PvP mechanic. And guess what? How exactly is it balancing anyone when 50s get bracketed off and -everyone- has it. When everyone has this stat, everyone is on the same level and it's as if the stat didn't exist at all. So if everyone has it, ipso facto, things are balanced, ipso facto, putting everyone on a level playing field as if it didn't exist, ipso facto - it shouldn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxxs Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm not understanding why they would nerf these classes when we've got Sorcs and BHs spamming high DPS attacks... Probably because stealth+stuns galore make the kill the Op/scoundrel engage in risk free in the sense that the attackee has no chance to respond. This is an entirely risk free kill for the Op/scoundrel. In what you mention those classes can engage in powerful attacks but can be seen and at least the attackee can fight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrian_ Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I lost a warzone today. Obviously the only reason is because every class except mine is OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 All classes can do the same with stacking buffs (the real problem). Ranged shouldn't be able to 100-0 melee from ranged by your logic. The fastest I have died has involved an assasssin. Second fastest was probably a bounty hunter. PvP is not balanced in WoW until endgame either. WoW is balanced by the resilience stat, this game is balanced by the expertise stat. NOONE is forcing you to pvp at low levels. In fact seeing that you can cap badges from like 40-44? I would say anyone leveling only in warzones? Wasting their time. If you are a tank crying about scoundrels/ops? Wait until you get gear. 20 k health in warzones? 3 shot? Yeah right... So true. I oprative/scoundrel have no chance take down tanks in WZ. Put a oprative in pug, he is insane. Put a oprative in premade vs tanks, healers etc they are useless. only burst you see vidoes by opratives is when they 3 second shot ppl from lvl 10 to 40. at lvl 50 with full gear no way...then its much better play assassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappywag Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm not touching most of this with a 50 foot pole. However - I did want to point out that the OP was actually trying to help you Smuggler/Operative players. I agree that a LOT of people need to take a good long look at how to play their classes in Warzones, but I honestly just don't have the ambition or the desire to have the same conversation again. Sorry. I would take the first post in this thread to heart, though. If you don't think the Operative/Smuggler should be nerfed, it would do you well to /really/ gather that info. The OP is absolutely right whether you like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jansports Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Truth I feel bad for you man. everything you say makes sense and noone wants to listen. My friends and I were forming up our Ideal 8 man PvP team and Both Operative and Sniper were left out excepting Alderan where an operative/smuggler wouldn't be a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchAUstin Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) What do you suggest they do then? If they nerf our burst we are useless, there is already a small percentage of people playign scoundrel compared to Sorc/Assassin. with no defense, no mobility and no sustainable damage. ALl we have is burst so if they take that away we will all have to reroll Sorc/Assassin just like you guys. EDIT: on top of that i just said in guild chat that people are complaining about scoundrels they just fell over laughing... Trinket the stun and start kiting, i know a lot of you are bioware or starwars fanboys and this is your first mmo, but you will get the hang of it and once you do you will realize we are barely top tier. Rated warzones will be filled with Troopers and Sorcs. Edited January 8, 2012 by ArchAUstin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laran Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Its all about the player, and frankly there are many more bad scoundrels and ops than there are good ones. I finish almost every warfront in the top 3, sometimes it takes multiple people to kill me but guess what? Im specced for it. Im scrapper/sawbones for the healing aspect and i always have upperhand stacked. I use my resolve bar to get around CC and defense screen to lessen damage. Guess what? scoundrels arnt the only class that can do this, sages can make a ranged dps/healing spec and be quite lethal, troopers and bounty hunters have good heals and survivability not to mention heavy armor. People just like to cry overpowered as an excuse for their suck and lets be fair in any mmo with a stealth class everyone always cries "nerf" because noone likes fighting stealthies. Which makes me realize you are all just class racists! gunslingers suck go scoundrel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pylock Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 WoW is balanced by the resilience stat, This made me laugh a bit, ever try to jump into the 3-4 arena season of an xpac wit ha new toon or been a new player that started the game late? Cuz a new pvp player getting 2-3 shotted or globled the the FOTM comp was fun... Heck I did it to new players cuz it got me my points but, on the other hand it was boring due to low competition, then on my alts it was annoying as hell because it felt like you were forever locked out of 2400+ MMR if you started late. Even on my good FOTM toons that I played since launch and got multi glad titles it was rough if you started late or skipped a few seasons before starting. My rogue was glad season 1,2,3, and 5 I skipped arena till season 7ish due to it being the same boring grind came back mid season with the same partners and we all 3 got destroyed due to the resilience gear imbalance. Waited for next xpac started from scratch new level cap and boom 2400 was easy mode again. My point being as long as BW keeps the exptise capped at 15% things will be fine even for new players they will not get globaled most encounters, but we will have to worry if they raise the cap higher then 15%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xchimux Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Operatives deserve the nerf hammer and of course will get it here soon. The fact that any class can get me to 60% before I can even open up is pretty stupid. And im sitting at 11% expertise and still get my *** handed to me before I can move on my Sage. Overpowered classes always pop up and ALWAYS get a nerf hammer to the face. So look forward to it ;]. -Athen the Sage who makes Emp's mad. Why are you crying? You can do the same to melee that you get the drop on. To kill the ops just trinket the knockdown, stun, kite with slows and dots. He'll likely pop evasion to clear the dots now reopening on you with a new 3 sec knockdown and no consumables or relics to buff his damage. Without a crit it'll scratch off of your bubble, knockback this time then get back to kiting with dots and instants. omg dead op. Yeah with heavy cd, consumables, expertise buff and lucky RNG for the chain crits Ops will kill 1 person, 2 if they're hunting lowbies with a cloaking screen. If you let them restealth without CS its your own fault and you deserve to be opened on with their CDs still running. Does Hidden Strike crit for an asston with cds and good gear? Yes. However, if you nerf it without buffing other operative skills they'll useless. During beta they already nerfed our sustained damage so that we'd be stealth burst. Now you guys want them to take that too? Ok fix our sustained. I'd love to not be crippled after I open if I cant immediately restealth after my cds and consumables are down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIGAR Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 OP = Winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnesium Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hopefully the Devs are taking a look at feedback but also looking at real numbers and seeing how much DPS an Operative/Scoundrel does on that burst with stun is WAY too high and while I don't know the class or it's skills the crit chance seems almost 100%? I have pretty much all Champion gear and 136 armour and with that I don't see how I can be taken down that fast and no other class is capable of that and they have plenty of tricks from melee and vanish. Shadows have 0 skills that do high damage from Stealth which has also shocked me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFurz Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) I have a Jugg with centurion. ops/scoundrels with half a brain know they should ignore me and look for greener pastures. I also have a lowbie Sorc, and ops/scoundrels kill me in the duration of the stun. my average day involves me being on the receiving end of lots of 6k and 7k crits. I know both sides of the fence. and one of the sides being fine doesnt mean the other side should be a hell. Thats the kind of as.s backwards logic that will have you rerolling anytime soon after a developer wrecks your class due to complains. Lowbie...every lvl 50 can crash a lowbie. Why dont you level up your toon first and get him Centurion aswell and then lets see how you do, but dont come here complaining but you did forget to activate your bubble. Your tank would be crashed aswell as with a low level, but with Centurion you do fine. Another thing, people moan about op/sc which did use consumeables+buff stucks, yet nobody shows acutally what other classes can do with such a tactic...why nobody shows any videos or tests...because the whole subject about op/sc is dishonest if nobody else contributes at least some facts...too much talks. There are threads where people report that Guard alone will reduce the dmg for 50% and even up to 80% when you add the other tank skills, making healers almost unkillable, tanking several players...what about that ? You see post where BH´s or other classes consume such buffs and allegedly hit for 6k but ranged, why are there no videos or screenshots about this ? As long there are no comparisons with facts in form of videos/screenshots and detailed infos about the characters in such a test, the whole talks are like a hamsterwheel and is one sided. Edited January 8, 2012 by BobaFurz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchAUstin Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hopefully the Devs are taking a look at feedback but also looking at real numbers and seeing how much DPS an Operative/Scoundrel does on that burst with stun is WAY too high and while I don't know the class or it's skills the crit chance seems almost 100%? I have pretty much all Champion gear and 136 armour and with that I don't see how I can be taken down that fast and no other class is capable of that and they have plenty of tricks from melee and vanish. Shadows have 0 skills that do high damage from Stealth which has also shocked me. Lol please someone watch the recruitment video in this guys sig, I hope more importantly the devs know these are the kinds of players ask for nerfs on the scounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnesium Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Lol please someone watch the recruitment video in this guys sig, I hope more importantly the devs know these are the kinds of players ask for nerfs on the scounds... Eh, I think you will find plenty of people asking for nerfs on many areas, I've had them said to me about my own class too but the Devs will surely just look at the figures themselves? Oh and nice to know you took the time to watch our pre-game launch vids Edited January 8, 2012 by Magnesium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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