Space Combat in The Old Republic (continued from pre launch)

[Stephenjdoug]

That sounds promising. I just hope their big plans are not more random space missions based of the current model.

That be a big disappointment. I don't mean to sound ignorant, but has Bioware ever successfully done space combat outside the current TOR model? The only games where they would have had this chance would have been KOTOR and the Mass Effects and they avoided space combat like it was the plaque in those games (although I love each every KOTOR and ME game) .

 

I guess it could just be, their pretty new to the whole idea of making something like JTL or BF2 style space combat.

[dazednconfuzed]

That sounds promising. I just hope their big plans are not more random space missions based of the current model.

That be a big disappointment. I don't mean to sound ignorant, but has Bioware ever successfully done space combat outside the current TOR model? The only games where they would have had this chance would have been KOTOR and the Mass Effects and they avoided space combat like it was the plaque in those games (although I love each every KOTOR and ME game) .

 

I guess it could just be, their pretty new to the whole idea of making something like JTL or BF2 style space combat.

 

From what I understand (so may or may not be entirely accurate), they have some people on board who have developed space games in the past, I think even a couple of people who were on the JtL team, but they have been there all along, so that doesn't really mean much.

 

So far as their previous experience goes, in comparison to that, the space combat in TOR is a step forward from the turret shooting you had to do in KotOR, but I think that is their only experience with space combat. I was sorely disappointed in ME2 though. All that time and effort spent upgrading my ship, only for the space combat section to be done entirely by cutscene

[Goretzu]

That sounds promising. I just hope their big plans are not more random space missions based of the current model.

That be a big disappointment. I don't mean to sound ignorant, but has Bioware ever successfully done space combat outside the current TOR model? The only games where they would have had this chance would have been KOTOR and the Mass Effects and they avoided space combat like it was the plaque in those games (although I love each every KOTOR and ME game) .

 

I guess it could just be, their pretty new to the whole idea of making something like JTL or BF2 style space combat.

 

They said within 6 months we'd likely be playing a couple more missions, the "something big" is a much, much more vague statement.

 

Having said that space combat was massively supported in an offical forum poll (and it is something people have been asking for.... well.. forever), so you'd have to think it would be pretty high on their priority list.

[shepardcomander]

In case someone cares that one more person agrees with the TC. Space combat like BF2, or JTL would be incredible.

 

I have not been playing this game to long. But did my first space mission and was extremely disappointed. i probably won't bother with it again unless/till it is redone. This game makes me miss SWG honestly. Don't get me wrong I love TOR. And like the TC said, if this games going to be the Ultimate SW experience then it should definitely change its current little space mini game.

 

Also considering I have not read all the pages between this one and the first. What is the Devs current statement for future plans on space combat?

 

The devs have never commented in a space combat thread pre or post launch. 6 months ago there was an obscure comment in a blog about "big plans" but to be honest, Single Gender Romance Arcs have gotten more oficial lip service from Bioware than has space combat.

[Lurchy]

 

They said within 6 months we'd likely be playing a couple more missions, the "something big" is a much, much more vague statement.

 

Having said that space combat was massively supported in an offical forum poll (and it is something people have been asking for.... well.. forever), so you'd have to think it would be pretty high on their priority list.

 

Was this shortly before they got rid of the forum poll feature?

[metalgearyoda]

From what I understand (so may or may not be entirely accurate), they have some people on board who have developed space games in the past, I think even a couple of people who were on the JtL team, but they have been there all along, so that doesn't really mean much.

 

To be fair, the space mini game was outsourced so the people in bioware who worked on JTL had nothing to do with it. Lets hope that changes.

 

I would like to remind everyone that my smart phone (droid 4) has a better space game then swtor called galaxies on fire 2.

A demonstration on a tablet

A here is the expansion

 

Here's hoping that swtors space is at least better then a phone app game by xmass.

Edited June 2, 2012 by metalgearyoda

[Stephenjdoug]

well we all know its possible, the only real question is will bioware do it and what approach will they take if they do

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

So there is a new space shooter mission coming up this year. Everyone excited?

[BoushhDC]

So there is a new space shooter mission coming up this year. Everyone excited?

 

 

... and pretty burnt out on "Ground Wars." I was hoping for a bigger indication of the rest of the IP (i.e. Space) by now.

Edited June 5, 2012 by BoushhDC

[Vego_Mohenjo]

I don't know what's so difficult. It needn't even be joystick based.

 

You use the ships we have now. Steer the way STO does, A and D steers left and right, W dives and S climbs. Accelerate and decelerate with the mouse wheel (or +/- keys). You padlock your view on an enemy or other feature in the landscape, and use the mouse as a crosshair to fire your turrets (much as we do now).

[Evironrage]

It still is subpar SC. They could have given us instanced 3D SC and chose the easy way out. As I feared SC's replay value is close to nil. Once you have completed the missions ~2x it is tough to keep trying them. The patterns are incredibly simple which I was surprised by given how old rail shooters are.

[Star-ranger]

Going to have to say "We're probably never going to see the space game we'd like in SWTOR".

 

They just cut 150-200 employees from their staff. They can't make the game work according to their game philosophy and hold customers losing 700K subscribers in the first six months. They haven't really listened to the fans yet on any meaningful issues regarding the game's design. What makes anyone think we'll ever get a 3D space game addition?

 

Nevertheless what they should have launched with was:

 

1. Launch from Planet using controls in the cockpit.--- what the hell is this with clicking on the freaking door and launching into orbit. The owner of the freaking ship can't have his friends join them in their ship or use the dang holo-communicator on a planet because the stupid ship launches into orbit when you click on the door.

Where is it in Star Wars where you see the Millinium Falcon launch when Han goes through the door leaving Luke and Obi wan on Tatooine?

 

2. Fly ship to orbit from where it enters the system, then activate landing.

Where is it in Star Wars we see ships immediately come out of hyper space into orbit? Never. When ever a ship arrived in a system they always had to fly to their destination usually through hordes of fighers, then activate their landing sequence. When did a Star Wars character every open the airlock into space and have the ship land itself? NEVER.

 

3. After flying the rails missions repeatedly you get used to the pattern and it gets dull. I never felt that about actually flying any of my ships in Elite, or X-wing, or Tie-Fighter, or X-wing vs. Tie-Fighter, or anyother flight simulator (and I use the term flight simulator loosely to include any flying experience where you have full control of your ship and actually have to fly it.).

 

4. Just converting the rails shooter to a 3D control shooter would be a start. You'd have to include joy stick options, throttle, and sensors (radar--best if it followed Elite's 3D model not X-wing's 2D model).

5. Letting folks fly their ship in from the system rim with variable events / encounters would liven up this game a lot. Yeah some people would hate it, but you could have a jump to orbit button for those stick in the muds.

 

5. Later you could create multi-player missions both PvE and PvP. Good fun.

 

There is so much you could do with this.

 

Look BW there was this game called Jump Gate a 3 faction 3D space combat game, and the company who made it was named Net Devil was working on a sequel called Jump Gate Evolution. It died because it was mishandled by the parent company Gazillion--you all know the story. There were 500,000 players who signed up for the beta test of that game. All those people are waiting for the next big space flight combat sim to hit the market. And you could get all those folks and a lot more if this game had a decent space combat aspect in it.

 

Think about it. Don't make the same mistake you did with the current rail shooter because that aspect of SWTOR won't attract anybody to play this game or hold anybody in this game.

 

If you do the space combat game right, you will attract hundreds of thousands of space combat players and up your numbers substantially. There's also a whole staff of folks who worked on JGE out there after Gazillion closed down Net Devil last year.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Star-ranger

[Hambunctious]

*burp* I can fly...I'm a pilot.

[revial]

I don't think I've ever seen more than three other people in any given space mission instance.

 

I thought Bioware realized what a fail Space Combat was.

 

Then, I see they're adding a new mission. Words fail me in my attempt to describe how tone-deaf this company seemingly seems to be.

[Duren_Col]

I remember telling my guild in SWG that without JTL I wouldn't still be here.

[williambr]

It still is subpar SC. They could have given us instanced 3D SC and chose the easy way out. As I feared SC's replay value is close to nil. Once you have completed the missions ~2x it is tough to keep trying them. The patterns are incredibly simple which I was surprised by given how old rail shooters are.

 

It's funny, I completed all the missions on my first character, I have not played a space mission in 5 months, and have never done any with any of my alts, even though they are a different faction.

 

This system has the worst replay value I've ever seen. Ever, in the history of gaming. The amazing dragonfly minigame in jade empire was more addictive.

[Bluerodian]

I don't know what's so difficult. It needn't even be joystick based.

 

You use the ships we have now. Steer the way STO does, A and D steers left and right, W dives and S climbs. Accelerate and decelerate with the mouse wheel (or +/- keys). You padlock your view on an enemy or other feature in the landscape, and use the mouse as a crosshair to fire your turrets (much as we do now).

 

That method would work better for larger scale capitol ships (Guild ships?) while smaller fighter style craft would need something that allows for more maneuverability, such as what was in the JTL expansion.

 

So you would have a tradeoff between styles if you mixed them. Larger scale capitol ships with higher firepower but slower maneuverability vs. High maneuverability and lower firepower of fighter craft.

 

It would make for some interesting guild vs guild space PVP scenarios.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Bluerodian

[Spectus]

Well said. For now, I am ignoring the space combat as if it isn't even part of the game. I am pretty sure there are Iphone apps that are better and more interesting.

There are. Even iPhone apps like Snoopy vs. The Red Baron are better than a railshooter. There's even a free-flight space-combat MMO (that's NOT EvE), that supports Windows, Linux, Mac-OS, and Android, and still manages to be better than this game's railshooter.

 

I think the announcement of "Space Combat" as a railshooter was this game's first major disappointment. I still remember how the old SWTOR forums lit up in a white-hot fury for weeks, with the front page of the General Discussion forum covered with threads on the topic, even with the mods ruthlessly locking threads on a constant basis.

 

Hopefully, a recent survey posted by the Community Manager on James Ohlen's behalf that asked us what feature we most wanted to see them develop will be a harbinger. It asked which of four major new features we most wanted: guild-owned capital ships, vehicular combat, free-flight space combat, and something else I don't remember. And free-flight space combat was the winner, by a wide margin.

 

And I would also point out that anyone who tries to argue that space combat was only a small part of the movies aren't quite seeing the issue clearly. The thing is, the bulk of the Star Wars movies is taken up by dialogue. But the action sequences are divided pretty much 50/50 between terrestrial combat and space combat. You could just as plausibly (in other words, implausibly) argue that lightsaber combat or blaster combat are only a small part of the Star Wars experience.

 

Hopefully, BioWare will restore the star wars to their Star Wars experience soon.

[Comstrike]

I just wish they'd break down and deal with adding a JTL style expansion pack. But then they also have a massive load of junk they need to contend with.

[Vego_Mohenjo]

That method would work better for larger scale capitol ships (Guild ships?) while smaller fighter style craft would need something that allows for more maneuverability, such as what was in the JTL expansion.

 

So you would have a tradeoff between styles if you mixed them. Larger scale capitol ships with higher firepower but slower maneuverability vs. High maneuverability and lower firepower of fighter craft.

 

It would make for some interesting guild vs guild space PVP scenarios.

 

I agree (and it would be cool to have access to capital ships), but I was thinking about our existing ships. They're not fighters, after all. They're small starships, and I think the controls I suggested would work well for them. Of course, if you're going to add smaller, more manueverable fighter craft for us to fly, then yes, we would need something more akin to joystick controls.

[madmikeyb]

They could of done something as simple as Moonbreaker, which is a f2p space combat on steam. Instead they keep going down the same road as before which got a lot of the Bioware employees caned for. Common sense i would think should tell you that what they did before the firings didn't work. Guess that doesn't apply.......Seriously bioware start your own company and get away from EA, dont you see what they have done to your rep and your company........I love Bioware but i don't love EA/Bioware.

[Razdek]

I despise the rail shooter... It is just so restrictive and confind and not fun at all. If there is a big shop with lots of guns i want to fly around and disable the ship all together. If there are lots of little ships i want a dog fight where i have to chase it down, not just let it zoom right past me right into my los... What sort of idiot pilot would do that?

 

Putting a rail shooter in swtor was a big slap in the face to all those people who love the star wars space genre... And bioware just keep adding insulting content (such as the cathar) and are not taking the star wars fans seriously and instead listening to te whiney non star wars fans who just love the new dodgy easy mode wow style mmos. I am rapidly loosing interest in anything produced by bioware... I now boycotte anything by blizzard because of rubbish they turned wow into. Do i now need to start boycotting anything from bioware as well?

[BoushhDC]

There are. Even iPhone apps like Snoopy vs. The Red Baron are better than a railshooter. There's even a free-flight space-combat MMO (that's NOT EvE), that supports Windows, Linux, Mac-OS, and Android, and still manages to be better than this game's railshooter.

 

I think the announcement of "Space Combat" as a railshooter was this game's first major disappointment. I still remember how the old SWTOR forums lit up in a white-hot fury for weeks, with the front page of the General Discussion forum covered with threads on the topic, even with the mods ruthlessly locking threads on a constant basis.

 

Hopefully, a recent survey posted by the Community Manager on James Ohlen's behalf that asked us what feature we most wanted to see them develop will be a harbinger. It asked which of four major new features we most wanted: guild-owned capital ships, vehicular combat, free-flight space combat, and something else I don't remember. And free-flight space combat was the winner, by a wide margin.

 

And I would also point out that anyone who tries to argue that space combat was only a small part of the movies aren't quite seeing the issue clearly. The thing is, the bulk of the Star Wars movies is taken up by dialogue. But the action sequences are divided pretty much 50/50 between terrestrial combat and space combat. You could just as plausibly (in other words, implausibly) argue that lightsaber combat or blaster combat are only a small part of the Star Wars experience.

 

Hopefully, BioWare will restore the star wars to their Star Wars experience soon.

 

Space combat was a hot topic as far back as a year before launch, it was also a hot topic on the beta forums (once I got access), and it was a hot topic after the NDA was lifted, and even I was appeased when, at launch, they indicated they had something big in the works. More than 6 months later, with them well aware of the passion that people have for this issue, to see them double down on the rail shooter by adding a new "mission" just made my jaw drop... and my spirits.

Edited June 7, 2012 by BoushhDC

[shepardcomander]

Space combat was a hot topic as far back as a year before launch, it was also a hot topic on the beta forums (once I got access), and it was a hot topic after the NDA was lifted, and even I was appeased when, at launch, they indicated they had something big in the works. More than 6 months later, with them well aware of the passion that people have for this issue, to see them double down on the rail shooter by adding a new "mission" just made my jaw drop... and my spirits.

 

You'd think after 6 months of supposed developement they'd have something worth talking about, but no.

[metalgearyoda]

Space combat was a hot topic as far back as a year before launch, it was also a hot topic on the beta forums (once I got access), and it was a hot topic after the NDA was lifted, and even I was appeased when, at launch, they indicated they had something big in the works. More than 6 months later, with them well aware of the passion that people have for this issue, to see them double down on the rail shooter by adding a new "mission" just made my jaw drop... and my spirits.

 

In all likelihood the "new" mission was probably one they made back in prelaunch development and shelved in case they needed something to throw at people. Little do they realize its probably better to just keep it collecting dust then insult us further by not giving us off rails space combat.

 

We get that they have something "big" coming.

 

But they have to come out and give us a preview of what their goal is.

 

Are they even going to make off rails space combat? We have no clue.

If they do, will there be pvp? We have no clue.

If they do, will there be space raiding? We have no clue.

If they do, will there be customization? We have no clue.

 

The one thing I know is that if their "big plan" falls short of 3d space combat I won't be here.

 

JUST LET US KNOW WHAT YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT SPACE COMBAT.

 

JUST LET US KNOW.

 

THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

 

THIS HAS GONE ON FOREVER AND ITS CRAZY.

 

Every issue in this game has been talked about or at least somewhat explained to some extent EXCEPT for space.

 

We make jokes about the "soon" stuff but nothing is quite so vague as the space content.

 

It literally makes me want to scream.

 

You've outlined the next year in terms of pve content with short clips of fights, told us about cathar, even talked about level cap increases... You then flashed up .4 seconds of on rails space combat and you were like "space mission MOVING ON". You gave us less than nothing.

 

You might as well have been playing a clip of Al Jolson circa 1927 singing Mammy. It would have been less offensive.

 

I love you bioware but if you want to communicate... tell us why we, spacers, should stay subbed.