Space Combat in The Old Republic (continued from pre launch)

[HarrisonJacob]

Did not wanna copy paste all this, but here are some additional ideas.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=401772

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

We all know the stuff shown in the video below will never be possible in TOR, because we do NOT have open world planets!!

 

 

The real interesting part starts at 2:10 by the way, watch in HD!

 

Notice the daytime? Nice day/night change too

 

also:

 

 

You see real players below running around and other player space ships around. It was incredible. One of the many reasons why space in TOR is such a huge letdown

Edited April 12, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Enemybrit]

Well i have been following this Thread for awhile and im proud to finnally step up to support it.

 

first off: exellent work devs and old republic team great game you did yourself proud!

 

now i agree with your concerens for space flight. Its to bad they chose a mini game over a fully realised flight sim thing.

I have read alot of people comparing the space ocmabt in game to Star Fox 64 and how it can be good in some cases but what im amazed i have not read as of yet (unless i missed it) was that Star Fox 64 had 3 axis flight in it as well!! you fight a boss or multiplayer and u could do 180 turns run around at will in a small enviroment.

 

If they dont want a flight sim like SWG why not do what starfox 64 did and have best of both worlds?

 

Tube shooter on Class related missions for cinimatic movie effect. and 3d mode for boss or exploration,grinding.

 

it just feels to me that when SWG ended they said. Why wasnt SWG not so exellent? (loved it btw) i got it!! Bad ground battles and boring missions! so lets make sure we have amazing fun cinimatic missions and ground battles. But they left out the 2 things in the old republic that made SWG great! Customization and Space flight. I know the customization will never be 25%( 25-40%) of what SWG was but i feel the old republic should have a fully featured and realised space combat.

 

anyway this was my first post on any mmo forum but i feel i needed to step up and support you guys in my small way.

[shepardcomander]

Well i have been following this Thread for awhile and im proud to finnally step up to support it.

 

first off: exellent work devs and old republic team great game you did yourself proud!

 

now i agree with your concerens for space flight. Its to bad they chose a mini game over a fully realised flight sim thing.

I have read alot of people comparing the space ocmabt in game to Star Fox 64 and how it can be good in some cases but what im amazed i have not read as of yet (unless i missed it) was that Star Fox 64 had 3 axis flight in it as well!! you fight a boss or multiplayer and u could do 180 turns run around at will in a small enviroment.

 

If they dont want a flight sim like SWG why not do what starfox 64 did and have best of both worlds?

 

Tube shooter on Class related missions for cinimatic movie effect. and 3d mode for boss or exploration,grinding.

 

it just feels to me that when SWG ended they said. Why wasnt SWG not so exellent? (loved it btw) i got it!! Bad ground battles and boring missions! so lets make sure we have amazing fun cinimatic missions and ground battles. But they left out the 2 things in the old republic that made SWG great! Customization and Space flight. I know the customization will never be 25%( 25-40%) of what SWG was but i feel the old republic should have a fully featured and realised space combat.

 

anyway this was my first post on any mmo forum but i feel i needed to step up and support you guys in my small way.

 

Welcome and thanks for the support.

[Goretzu]

Well i have been following this Thread for awhile and im proud to finnally step up to support it.

 

first off: exellent work devs and old republic team great game you did yourself proud!

 

now i agree with your concerens for space flight. Its to bad they chose a mini game over a fully realised flight sim thing.

I have read alot of people comparing the space ocmabt in game to Star Fox 64 and how it can be good in some cases but what im amazed i have not read as of yet (unless i missed it) was that Star Fox 64 had 3 axis flight in it as well!! you fight a boss or multiplayer and u could do 180 turns run around at will in a small enviroment.

 

If they dont want a flight sim like SWG why not do what starfox 64 did and have best of both worlds?

 

Tube shooter on Class related missions for cinimatic movie effect. and 3d mode for boss or exploration,grinding.

 

it just feels to me that when SWG ended they said. Why wasnt SWG not so exellent? (loved it btw) i got it!! Bad ground battles and boring missions! so lets make sure we have amazing fun cinimatic missions and ground battles. But they left out the 2 things in the old republic that made SWG great! Customization and Space flight. I know the customization will never be 25%( 25-40%) of what SWG was but i feel the old republic should have a fully featured and realised space combat.

 

anyway this was my first post on any mmo forum but i feel i needed to step up and support you guys in my small way.

 

 

Well I don't think anyone really wants a full on realistic space sim, realistic space combat isn't what you see in Star Wars (or most space films) what you see in most space films is basically atmospheric flight.... but in space, or "Hollywood Space" basically.

 

But there's loads of games have done that well though, they could basically stick Freelancer in with a SW skin and it would be 1000x better than what is currently in or an higher res X-wing vs Tie Fighter.

 

But I totally agree that they should make any future space combat as fun as possible, the more boring or grindy bits of SWG (or any other space game) aren't really needed if the game itself is fun enough.

 

But I would definately rather see a more "sandboxy" space combat (although not nessicarly sandbox as such, just "sandy" al la SWG JTLS) rather than a "themepark" space combat (which is basically what we've got at the moment). Star Wars is made for that IMO.

[Trenter]

I think the hint in the latest James Ohlen blog was kinda nice to see. Not much to go by granted and it can mean a lot of things, but with the activity on this topic before launch and to some extent after launch, I think I can afford to look positively on the future regarding 3d-flight space combat

 

While we managed to cover a lot of the biggest Star Wars fantasies with our initial release, we know we didn’t get them all. If you have a favorite moment from the Star Wars™ movies that you have yet to be able to experience in the game so far, be assured that we know about those as well. One day you will get to live out your Wedge Antilles, General Veers or Sebulba fantasies.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Trenter

[metalgearyoda]

In terms of customization I think they could do a lot.

 

Here's some ideas:

 

First, the beam generator. That should determine the color of your blasts. There should be a bunch for them.

 

Second, armor and shielding should be merged into a single part. However, there should be 3 types. High armor low shield, balanced, low armor high shield.

 

Third, the capacitor should have 3 types. Beam: standard damage, EMP bolt: higher damage on shields lower damage on armor, Grav bolt: Higher damage on armor lower damage on shields.

 

Last, the slot where armor use to go? Paint slot. Customize your ships appearance with patterns, colors, and eventually guild logos.

[Goretzu]

In terms of customization I think they could do a lot.

 

Here's some ideas:

 

First, the beam generator. That should determine the color of your blasts. There should be a bunch for them.

 

Second, armor and shielding should be merged into a single part. However, there should be 3 types. High armor low shield, balanced, low armor high shield.

 

Third, the capacitor should have 3 types. Beam: standard damage, EMP bolt: higher damage on shields lower damage on armor, Grav bolt: Higher damage on armor lower damage on shields.

 

Last, the slot where armor use to go? Paint slot. Customize your ships appearance with patterns, colors, and eventually guild logos.

 

 

 

Yeah I'd actually like to be able to buy different ships..... but even ignoring that it would be nice at the very least to be able to:

 

 

• Change the colour of your laser/plasma bolts
  
• Change the colour of your engine flare
  
• Change the colour of your ship
  

 

 

And it would definately be nice to be able to customise your ship to be more offensive/defensive and such as you say and to customise it in much more detail too.

[shepardcomander]

Swotor space combat is a POBS.

I have tried with my first character but never tried with one of my seven alts.

The Space combat designer is living in the past and should remain in the past.

That game is better..

http://www.play.vg/games/4-Asteroids.html

 

I tried it once on my first character and was dissappointed before the mission could end.

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

so, how long will it take until we can fly around in our ships in an explorable universe? how will it work to enter atmospheres of planets? Will every Sith Inquisitor fly in the same Fury class ship?? (does not work)

 

I'd call the planets we have now "starter planets", all new ones will have to be significantly more open world and bigger.

And it must be possible to fly and purchase different types of ships...

Edited April 18, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Tarka]

I think the hint in the latest James Ohlen blog was kinda nice to see. Not much to go by granted and it can mean a lot of things, but with the activity on this topic before launch and to some extent after launch, I think I can afford to look positively on the future regarding 3d-flight space combat

 

To me, James' words are nothing more than a poor attempt to encourage those who are a little disappointed to continue subscribing based on the mere possibility of something being introduced that may please them in the future (no date inferred of course).

 

I've seen that kind of line used way too many times by devs, and by players who use it to justify their continued subscription. I've cancelled my sub today. Maybe I'll return IF the devs decide to go beyond their "do it like wow" comfort zone.

[Tarka]

Yeah I'd actually like to be able to buy different ships..... but even ignoring that it would be nice at the very least to be able to:

 

 

• Change the colour of your laser/plasma bolts
  
• Change the colour of your engine flare
  
• Change the colour of your ship
  

 

 

And it would definately be nice to be able to customise your ship to be more offensive/defensive and such as you say and to customise it in much more detail too.

 

if memory serves me rightly, the devs essentially inferred that to allow players to obtain different ships would be way too much effort because it causes issues with the "class story" dialogue that takes place on the ships.

 

Which, in my humble opinion, is complete and utter BS being used to weakly justify their position. Just like all the other excuses they've used in the past. For example:

1. Lack of swimming excuse : "No one would want to swim on a planet like Hutta anyhow" (whilst ignoring places like Alderaan).
   .
   
2. Lack of Day / Night cycle excuse: "We wanted to capture the artistic essence of the dialogue" (whilst ignoring how other MMO's have dialogue that captures the same dialogue "essence", no matter what time of day or night it is in the game).
   

Edited April 19, 2012 by Tarka

[Tarka]

so, how long will it take until we can fly around in our ships in an explorable universe? how will it work to enter atmospheres of planets? Will every Sith Inquisitor fly in the same Fury class ship?? (does not work)

 

I'd call the planets we have now "starter planets", all new ones will have to be significantly more open world and bigger.

And it must be possible to fly and purchase different types of ships...

 

I really wouldn't hold your breath on this one. They've gotta give us reason to believe that they are willing and able to create much bigger "open" environments first.

[Trenter]

To me, James' words are nothing more than a poor attempt to encourage those who are a little disappointed to continue subscribing based on the mere possibility of something being introduced that may please them in the future (no date inferred of course).

 

I've seen that kind of line used way too many times by devs, and by players who use it to justify their continued subscription. I've cancelled my sub today. Maybe I'll return IF the devs decide to go beyond their "do it like wow" comfort zone.

 

LOL, I didn't expect those words to mean more than that to you, Tarka.

 

Take care anyways, good chatting with you over the years!

[Tarka]

LOL, I didn't expect those words to mean more than that to you, Tarka.

 

Take care anyways, good chatting with you over the years!

 

Likewise.

 

I know we've had our difference of opinions, but I'd like to think that we still had some level of mutual respect.

[ISDEnterprise]

Star Trek Online has good space combat. Why can't this much more funded game?

 

Seriously, one the rails is okay but not amazing. I find it really quite stupid when I miss an objective and can't turn around my ship myself because apparently I'm no pilot.

[Trenter]

Likewise.

 

I know we've had our difference of opinions, but I'd like to think that we still had some level of mutual respect.

 

Definately, my farewell is as sincere as they come I even think that ultimately we share the same view on what we'd like to see when it comes to space combat in TOR. I have changed my view a lot over time based on posts by yourself and a few other "veterans"

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I really wouldn't hold your breath on this one. They've gotta give us reason to believe that they are willing and able to create much bigger "open" environments first.

 

correct... that is why I think that no version below 2.0 will really catch my attention again. There are whole new aspects of gameplay which need to be added, I'm pretty sure they will come, but it's saddening that it will take quite some time. I don't care about new end game content or other content the hardcore gamers are asking for, if bioware thinks they are their core subscribers, well then I'll be back when the fun stuff gets added.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Goretzu]

if memory serves me rightly, the devs essentially inferred that to allow players to obtain different ships would be way too much effort because it causes issues with the "class story" dialogue that takes place on the ships.

 

Which, in my humble opinion, is complete and utter BS being used to weakly justify their position. Just like all the other excuses they've used in the past. For example:

1. Lack of swimming excuse : "No one would want to swim on a planet like Hutta anyhow" (whilst ignoring places like Alderaan).
   .
   
2. Lack of Day / Night cycle excuse: "We wanted to capture the artistic essence of the dialogue" (whilst ignoring how other MMO's have dialogue that captures the same dialogue "essence", no matter what time of day or night it is in the game).
   

 

 

Yeah there seems like a lot of things that were game design "choices" supposedly, but seem much more like time/money limited decisions really.

[shepardcomander]

Star Trek Online has good space combat. Why can't this much more funded game?

 

Seriously, one the rails is okay but not amazing. I find it really quite stupid when I miss an objective and can't turn around my ship myself because apparently I'm no pilot.

 

That sentiment cuts to the core of the issue. Whenever games take away a player's control of their character/avatar they lose the right to call themselves rpg's and if it's single player only, it loses the mmo title as well. The fail rails fail to meet basic definition of mmorpg content.

 

Meaning this supposed Star Wars mmorpg has no Star component to it. I've heard tor described as WoW in space but that's not true at all as tor has very little to do with space.

Edited April 22, 2012 by shepardcomander

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I can't get off the apprehension that "space" will be nothing more than a warzone you will be able to queue for. Sadly it fits into the concept, and hell will freeze before the derive from that concept.

[shepardcomander]

I can't get off the apprehension that "space" will be nothing more than a warzone you will be able to queue for. Sadly it fits into the concept, and hell will freeze before the derive from that concept.

 

Remember that scene in the movies when Han said; "hey Chewie, let's que up for a warzone."? Then Chewie roared, "but I'm just a lowly companion, I'll hide during warzones."

[madmarsh]

well i see this thread is heating back up lol.

i followed this thing constantly before lanch.

[Tarka]

Someone posted this on the "In support of Full 3D space combat in SWTOR" Facebook page:

 

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1333873/swtor_lead_dev_most_excited_by_incoming_space_features.html

 

It makes me chuckle that only NOW Daniel gets excited about the prospect.

 

But one thing to bear in mind of course is, whilst it's admirable to ask for feedback from the forums on the subject ( source ), that certainly doesn't mean that they've already got something in the pipeline. In short, it could take months (or perhaps a year or two) before we see any fruits of their labour.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Tarka

[utio]

Someone posted this on the "In support of Full 3D space combat in SWTOR" Facebook page:

 

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1333873/swtor_lead_dev_most_excited_by_incoming_space_features.html

 

It makes me chuckle that only NOW Daniel gets excited about the prospect.

 

But one thing to bear in mind of course is, whilst it's admirable to ask for feedback from the forums on the subject ( source ), that certainly doesn't mean that they've already got something in the pipeline. In short, it could take months (or perhaps a year or two) before we see any fruits of their labour.

 

Months is ok, years is without a doubt not ok.

They knew they were making a star wars mmo. They knew it was gonna be huge, and that a massive amount of fans were pinning their hopes and dreams on the game. The knew many swg players would sub, and they probably knew that swg would be shut down.

They should have known that people want proper space, it should not have been an afterthought. And now they're playing catch up. That is why, for me at least, this star wars mmo is the biggest gaming let down I've experienced.