Why do people consider TOR a single player experience? I don't understand.

[Vydor_HC]

I think this is an older style though, perhaps a better one, but its not what most people seem to want out of an mmo currently.

 

I agree that it is possible to solo too much of the content, but i would not say that this game is anything close to a single player game. I have grouped up easily 20 times in the first 20 levels, for the heroics and running multiple hammer stations. I have also done PVP which is obviously impossible in single player. The PVP needs refinement and the combat system needs to be more responsive, but neither turns the game into a single layer experience. I still have had more fun grouping in flashpoints than doing solo quests.

 

I know...like I say, you CAN group if you want. The game does not encourage group though. You dont level faster, you don't really get better rewards, it's not needed to progress your character.

 

The game pushes the solo mentality. That's not what I look for in an MMO, I can go out and look for groups all day long if I like to group, but the majority of the players will be taking the easy route and playing solo. In the end you get a much more desolate game because the players are really oblivious to others around them. Not because they want to, but just because its easier.

 

The flashpoints are nice, but not required by any stretch of the imagination.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Vydor_HC

[Irishbrewed]

I think this is an older style though, perhaps a better one, but its not what most people seem to want out of an mmo currently.

 

I agree that it is possible to solo too much of the content, but i would not say that this game is anything close to a single player game. I have grouped up easily 20 times in the first 20 levels, for the heroics and running multiple hammer stations. I have also done PVP which is obviously impossible in single player. The PVP needs refinement and the combat system needs to be more responsive, but neither turns the game into a single layer experience. I still have had more fun grouping in flashpoints than doing solo quests.

 

You want to do multiplayer activities, some people just wanna nerd out on star wars storylines and those ppl will play it single player and enjoy it. So yes it has something for both gamers, the mp guy and the sp one too.

[JMacneish]

lets face the god awful truth about MMOs these days: its agame with many diffrent ways to reach the lvl cap with a chatroom! the days of haveing to group and or being in charicter even while out levling is long gone!

[Irishbrewed]

I know...like I say, you CAN group if you want. The game does not encourage group though. You dont level faster, you don't really get better rewards, it's not needed to progress your character.

 

The game pushes the solo mentality. That's not what I look for in an MMO, I can go out and look for groups all day long if I like to group, but the majority of the players will be taking the easy route and playing solo. In the end you get a much more desolate game because the players are really oblivious to others around them. Not because they want to, but just because its easier.

 

The flashpoints are nice, but not required by any means of the imagination.

 

You get more xp while in group and social points that unlock additional gameplay features. Not to mention the heroic quest and the flaspoints and wz if you want the best gear. Those are pretty encouraging to group up IMO.

[Blurble]

Because compared to every other MMO they have ever played, this game is far more invested in the single player experience.

[Culveren]

I know...like I say, you CAN group if you want. The game does not encourage group though. You dont level faster, you don't really get better rewards, it's not needed to progress your character.

 

The game pushes the solo mentality. That's not what I look for in an MMO, I can go out and look for groups all day long if I like to group, but the majority of the players will be taking the easy route and playing solo. In the end you get a much more desolate game because the players are really oblivious to others around them. Not because they want to, but just because its easier.

 

The flashpoints are nice, but not required by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I do not believe that they are pushing the solo mentality, its faster to level in a group, they have social points, no automated lfd system. The only reason for me that it pushes single player is that is functions so well as a single player game. But improving upon the story is a plus, not a negative in my view. MMOs for me have always been about grouping up, and i have been able to do that very easily in this game, even if others are enjoying a more solo journey.

[Vydor_HC]

I do not believe that they are pushing the solo mentality, its faster to level in a group, they have social points, no automated lfd system. The only reason for me that it pushes single player is that is functions so well as a single player game. But improving upon the story is a plus, not a negative in my view. MMOs for me have always been about grouping up, and i have been able to do that very easily in this game, even if others are enjoying a more solo journey.

 

-nods-

 

Thats my point. The functions better as a solo, except on the rare occasion. Questing is easier and faster, the exp comes in faster....along with the cool story. People take the least path of resistance. Withing nothing requiring groups for progression, that aspect of the game takes a back seat to the solo aspect. Thus giving the game a single player feel.

 

When you join a group, in this game, it's like your playing outside the way it was made to be played, where games in the past were designed for just the opposite...if you were not with a full group or close, you were in for a much more difficult time.

[MasterEddard]

The reason people perceive it as a single player game is obviously because this game is very story driven. There is also a much higher level of interaction with NPC's than there is in any other MMO.

 

However this does not mean it involves less multiplayer than any other MMO. The fact of the matter is, this game involves more interaction with other players than most other MMO's, notably WoW. I've played WoW, EVE, and WAR and out of them and this game I have had more interaction with other players in SWTOR than any other mmo I have played. The only exception is Guild Wars.

 

I have been part of plenty of crazy and random conversations in general chat that makes Barrens general look like a funeral and I have had to group up with players often for heroics and also for world pvp. I've made a lot of friends from this. In the first thirty levels I have collected so many fun experiences with other players. I also always run into someone I have met before in the next planet.

 

I also suspect that most of the players who complain about the lack of interaction with other players come from the Republic side. I have played on both Imperial and Republic and I have to say that on the Imperial side there is a much higher volume of interaction with other players simply because of the massive faction imbalance. However I am leveling a JK right now and even in Alderaan with an average population of 40 players I am still finding plenty of ways to interact with other players. I suggest some players should just work on their social skills.

 

As I said earlier, the idea that this game is a singleplayer game is an illusion created by the heavy NPC interaction and overarching story.

[Teakbois]

I am baffled by people that say they dont see other players. Its just the farthest thing from my own personal experience. Chat channels have mostly died down because people have guilds now, but I see players everywhere.

 

 

The solo to cap style is nothing new. Rift has this too, outside of the dungeons the only group content in Rift is invasions, which are mindless autogroup zergs that rarely have any interaction. there is far more socializing in a typical heroic 4 swtor group than a Rift invasion.

 

I think the fact that single player portion is better than any other mmorpg (and since people typically solo most of their leveling time anyway, why shouldnt it be?) it gives the illusion that there is less group content.

 

Id be very curious to see a study that shows how often the average player groups while leveling in an MMO. Im betting SWTOR is at worst average, if not ahead of the curve. People do the h2s and h4s constantly.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Because people apparently choose to ignore guilds, Flashpoints, Heroics, world bosses, or just teaming up for the fun of doing quests together... this game is singleplayer only if you want it to be, and if you want to skip a huge amount of content.

[gannonmoss]

As the title suggests, I don't really understand. I'm a little new to MMOs, but certainly not single players. Am I missing something?

 

I understand that people are considering it a single player because the game I guess, is linear? But, I don't really think that. If you do every quest in an area, your space missions and a pvp daily, you'll out level your planet, letting you hop to different ones.

 

I guess it's because the planets are one after another though?

 

The questing doesn't feel single player, either... Take Skyrim. Skyrim is an awesome single player game, I love it. When I compare that to TOR, I don't see a comparison.

 

I've never seen a single player game where you're given a quest to kill 20 guys, or collect 20 things... for every single quest as the side quests go.

 

The main story quests are really cool and interesting, but otherwise - the side quests feel like, aside from the voice acting lore, repetitive and redundant. This makes me think of a normal MMO grind that doesn't give it a single player feel.

 

Could some one explain it to me, please?

 

It is a mutt between a BioWare RPG and a Blizzard Style MMO-RPG. The companions allow soloing in almost every occasion outside of at level, multiple elites+. However with some classes the gear from the heroic quests/FP's are almost a must to be able to thrive in the beginning quests on the following planet. So you can solo the game if you want, however you are making it harder on yourself and really missing a lot of great content.

[Culveren]

-nods-

 

Thats my point. The functions better as a solo, except on the rare occasion. Questing is easier and faster, the exp comes in faster....along with the cool story. People take the least path of resistance. Withing nothing requiring groups for progression, that aspect of the game takes a back seat to the solo aspect. Thus giving the game a single player feel.

 

When you join a group, in this game, it's like your playing outside the way it was made to be played, where games in the past were designed for just the opposite...if you were not with a full group or close, you were in for a much more difficult time.

 

No you missed what i said. it is faster to level in a group, you can still access story quests, there are social points and teirs to encourage groups, and there is heroic content and flashpoints. I have not had an issue finding a group either. So for me i have had zero issues with this being too much like a single player game. For me it has been very group friendly. The fact that others enjoy it as a more solo experience is fine because i am still having a great group experience. I do not need the game to force everyone into my category, even if i think it is superior.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Culveren

[Teakbois]

I know...like I say, you CAN group if you want. The game does not encourage group though. You dont level faster, you don't really get better rewards, it's not needed to progress your character.

 

The game pushes the solo mentality. That's not what I look for in an MMO, I can go out and look for groups all day long if I like to group, but the majority of the players will be taking the easy route and playing solo. In the end you get a much more desolate game because the players are really oblivious to others around them. Not because they want to, but just because its easier.

 

The flashpoints are nice, but not required by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Name a AAA MMO released in the last 7 or 8 years that isnt like this. The last one that doesnt fit this mold was FFXI

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

The flashpoints are nice, but not required by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Here is my question: why does it have to be ''required'' to group to feel like a multiplayer game? What is this ''requirement'' crap anyway? I plan this game to have fun, it's not a job, I don't try to get to 50 in the quickest way possible. If people want to get to 50 solo, good luck, it's possible I guess. But the game is clearly meant to be played with others. The conversation system, heroics, everything points to that.

[UjellyTrollicus]

Because there is no way that you will interact with other players other than PvP.

 

End game is non existant.

 

2 raids, 3 difficulties each, hard mode flashpoints, dailies, pvp.

 

 

yep that sure is no endgame there.

 

 

troll harder.

[knightblaster]

As the title suggests, I don't really understand. I'm a little new to MMOs, but certainly not single players. Am I missing something?

 

I understand that people are considering it a single player because the game I guess, is linear? But, I don't really think that. If you do every quest in an area, your space missions and a pvp daily, you'll out level your planet, letting you hop to different ones.

 

I guess it's because the planets are one after another though?

 

The questing doesn't feel single player, either... Take Skyrim. Skyrim is an awesome single player game, I love it. When I compare that to TOR, I don't see a comparison.

 

I've never seen a single player game where you're given a quest to kill 20 guys, or collect 20 things... for every single quest as the side quests go.

 

The main story quests are really cool and interesting, but otherwise - the side quests feel like, aside from the voice acting lore, repetitive and redundant. This makes me think of a normal MMO grind that doesn't give it a single player feel.

 

Could some one explain it to me, please?

 

It feels single player because in the other large theme park MMO at this point most people level their characters by running instances one after the other using the LFD tool. It's faster, and it's 100% multiplayer. And that's what people are used to now.

 

People will also always find the most efficient per hour way to level. In WAR, it was the opposite -- noone did the quests, because when the numbers were crunched, PvP scenarios provided far better "xp/hour" than questing, so the world was desolate and everyone was crammed into warcamps doing multiplayer PvP repeatedly.

 

Solo or multiplayer isn't the issue People will use the most efficient xp/hour to get themselves leveled, because in an MMO most people want to get leveling out of the way ASAP. Yes, that may not be appropriate in an MMO designed this way, but that's why so many are railing against the design -- people generally don't want to saunter through leveling in an MMO or focus on story, they want to cap and get all their abilities and then do competitive multiplayer PvP and PvE.

Edited January 7, 2012 by knightblaster

[senshi]

I have grouped more in this game in my first 3 weeks than I did in 6 months of Everquest 2 at release. The last game I can remember grouping more was FFXI and I don't think anyone wants to go back to a system where you have to group just to kill an even level enemy.

 

The only reason some people are saying it feels like a single player game is because it has the quality of a single player game. Go play Mass Effect and then jump on another MMO and then log into SWTOR. Which of the 2 games does SWTOR feel more like. It's not because of the lack of group content, not because it is lacking players, not because it is lacking all of the other MMO grinds we have become accustomed to, it is because of the presentation and I truly appreciate it.

[xioix]

play another mmo and you'll see the difference

[SlickDevlan]

It feels single player because in the other large theme park MMO at this point most people level their characters by running instances one after the other using the LFD tool. It's faster, and it's 100% multiplayer. And that's what people are used to now.

 

People will also always find the most efficient per hour way to level. In WAR, it was the opposite -- noone did the quests, because when the numbers were crunched, PvP scenarios provided far better "xp/hour" than questing, so the world was desolate and everyone was crammed into warcamps doing multiplayer PvP repeatedly.

 

Solo or multiplayer isn't the issue People will use the most efficient xp/hour to get themselves leveled, because in an MMO most people want to get leveling out of the way ASAP. Yes, that may not be appropriate in an MMO designed this way, but that's why so many are railing against the design -- people generally don't want to saunter through leveling in an MMO or focus on story, they want to cap and get all their abilities and then do competitive multiplayer PvP and PvE.

 

The LFD is exactly as "multiplayer" as your companion is.

 

Also, was WoW single player back when grinding was the best method of leveling?

 

WoW driven MMO ADHD...sad.

[Klarick]

They consider it so cause you can solo all the game ( i mean you can get to 50) , ... that is what makes a single player game dont considered if it is a good game or not.

I like the story im playing , actually the story i found cool ... doing all the side quests is what i find boring like hell.

 

You can Solo LOTRO, WoW, and Rift all the way to its end-cap. Are they not MMO's either?

[mbernert]

Because the game is so instanced you can get to 50 without ever see'ing anyone or barely(outside of city) it feel like a coop RPG more than a mmo

 

^ This

[Klarick]

^ This

 

In WoW if you stay out of Org or Stormwind, you can quest all the way to 85 and rarely see anyone either.

[Smurfsauce]

People are wrong about the "Nobody talks to each other; even in chat" thing. That has to be something going on in your server and even then I think you're likely exaggerating. People will speak to each other in General very often on my server for example. There are plenty of moments when its dead, though occasionally it just depends on where most people are at the moment.

 

All the higher/max level people are usually at the Imperial Fleet. But that said, the majority of players are still around on two of three planets on the server, just separated due to trying to enjoy the game.

 

On the note of enjoying the game, I'll address OP.

 

As the title suggests, I don't really understand. I'm a little new to MMOs, but certainly not single players. Am I missing something?

 

I understand that people are considering it a single player because the game I guess, is linear? But, I don't really think that. If you do every quest in an area, your space missions and a pvp daily, you'll out level your planet, letting you hop to different ones.

 

I guess it's because the planets are one after another though?.....

 

.....The main story quests are really cool and interesting, but otherwise - the side quests feel like, aside from the voice acting lore, repetitive and redundant. This makes me think of a normal MMO grind that doesn't give it a single player feel.

 

Could some one explain it to me, please?

 

If you ask me, a guy who has only grouped just to finish a quest or four before I left a planet (you know, those really annoying Heroics), the game feels single player simply because the main story itself can be done alone. That's the only reason you even need.

 

Take another example from me; you have these Social Points in the game which basically require you to group with people in initiate/finish quests in order to obtain them. The problem I found here was the system of there being a roll to determine who speaks. Not just that, but due to me being in a group, I'm forced to think much harder about decisions-- I can't simply view them on my own time because I wanted to see what the outcome was in the end; and that's assuming I even win the damn roll.

 

This also ruins getting affection for characters because from how I've seen it; if you lose, there's nothing no matter what option you picked. You only gain or lose whenever you win a roll, and THAT'S assuming your damn companion cares at the time. The Social Points and Social System is great and all, but didn't you ever ask yourself why it's there? Because it's the true incentive to grouping in this game; aka they're rewarding players that play with each other because they literally don't have to for 80% of this game.

 

The main quest can be done alone, and to enjoy most quests, regardless of if they're side or main, you might want to be alone so that you can discover all of the options. This gives it a single player feel. The fact that you can just play alone. Even if there's a teeny tiny bit of grind (which I haven't encountered anyway), it still feels single player.

 

Expand your horizons with RPGs in general; I guess I'll leave it at that.

[Mudanie]

I consider it mostly a single player game because:

 

1. BW designed the game to where it is completely quest based, so if you're on different quests than your buddy/guildies, they're better off just doing their own quests. There is no "grinding" of any sorts really where you can get with a group of guildies and just shoot the breeze grinding when you are sick of quests.

 

2. Instanced worlds. Even for guild members I have to change instances to do anything with them. Ridiculous.

 

3. No attempt what-so-ever from BW to encourage community building. No server forums, no guild functions, instancing/sharding, no chat bubbles, list goes on and on.

 

 

Those are the reasons why this game feels mostly single-player TO ME.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Mudanie

[Ainianu]

ive been playing the entire game with my missus, the game is as 'single player' as you choose it to be.

 

Heroics and Flashpoints are designed to bring people together and group, are they required to progress and play? NO because everyone wants something different from a MMO. Since WoW the solo option has been very viable in mmo, until then most mmo's was designed around grouping being the norm of play...

... the soloers need to be catered for, but at the same time there are many (like me) who prefer to group and there is content for us too, honestly i find it a perfect balance.