Juggernaut dps

[Mssg]

I notice that juggernaut have very small dps compare to other classes in the game. Is this even possible to have good dps on pvp and pve? at lvl 49 I am not able to crit more than 2k on pvp and pvp...

[pappersburk]

I'm note quite sure what you are doing, because my jugg is lvl 28 atm and I constantly crit for about 1400. And in warzones I have done over 3k so yeah, you are doing something incredibly wrong.

[CannotDeny]

I'm note quite sure what you are doing, because my jugg is lvl 28 atm and I constantly crit for about 1400. And in warzones I have done over 3k so yeah, you are doing something incredibly wrong.

 

I think you're just talking out of your ***, because at level 38 with 700+ strength, 63% crit damage I only crit about 1k-1.3k and my damage abilities are all maxed out. And don't even bother to say that one specific speccing boosts it up much higher 10 levels before.

 

*EDIT* Silly me, you were talking about Warzones when you're buffed to level 50 stats.

Still though, the most I hit was 2k so I have to take that with a grain of salt.

Edited January 8, 2012 by CannotDeny

[Feran_Feitwo]

Why people roll tanks and expect to put out as much DPS as Top Tier DPS classes is beyond me.

[Mosthatred]

I'm note quite sure what you are doing, because my jugg is lvl 28 atm and I constantly crit for about 1400. And in warzones I have done over 3k so yeah, you are doing something incredibly wrong.

 

Nice BS. I'm 50, with 3 piece of champion gear & all purple/orange pieces modded for my level, crushing blow will infrequently hit for 2800 but no more. I'm immortal spec'd so I'm not expecting mass damage output, however it is rather underwhelming at times. My smash will crit for around 1300-1500, but 5 targets and had a short cool down.

[Kabloosh]

Why people roll tanks and expect to put out as much DPS as Top Tier DPS classes is beyond me.

 

Cause we have 2 dps specs that aren't tank specs? Just because you've got a tank tree does not automatically make you a tank only class.

 

That being said I'm in a lot of 50 epics between pvp/pve gear and really our "heavy hitter" is smash... or at least in the rage tree. I can hit upwards to 4.5k to almost 5k with smash alone in pvp but everything else is generally between 1k to 2.5k in damage. Its really just rage generation, get back on target and smash.

 

The other dps tree I hear is better for PvE and does more sustained damage. Immortal spec hits like a wet noodle. If you are using the class to dish out damage in pvp you are playing it wrong. Just shield someone and run around spamming taunts, backhand, force choke, and interrupt crap cause that is all you are good for save for being an impossibly annoying distraction to kill. You still die easier then most healers... without a healer backing you up there.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Kabloosh

[FAPTROCITY]

tank class not hitting as hard as a dps class....unheardof

[Joelburg]

Some day, people will stop confusing crit numbers with dps. Then, St. Peter will sound the final trumpet of the apocalypse.

 

In all seriousness though, just because we don't have huge crits like other classes doesn't mean we have bad dps. Sure, they might be getting a 6k hit, but the skill might have been on a 2s cast timer. In rage spec on my jugg I was getting 3k+ crits on smash before I even had any max level pvp/pve gear (I've been running immortal since then because my guild needs me for tanking and I don't feel like spending the money respecing all the time). 3k in 1s is the same dps as 6k in 2s, it just doesn't look like it because all most people see is the big shiny numbers floating above their (or their opponents') head; they don't take the "seconds" part of "dps" into account, and thus think a class has bad dps because they can't get big crits.

 

To answer the OP's question, yes, you can do good (although slightly below top tier) dps with a jugg if specced and played properly. I'm of the opinion that veng is better for pve and rage is better for pvp, but really it all depends on your playstyle and what content you're running.

[Voeloes]

Why people roll tanks and expect to put out as much DPS as Top Tier DPS classes is beyond me.

 

I think what most of the Juggs, myself included, are a little peeved about is because of the fact that I've been crit for 6k by a tank specced Bounty hunter that could take and dish out just as much damage as me, while also having the talents to increase his/her's innate dmg reduction by a significantly larger amount than we/I can. The only reason I'm kind of ok with the the innate damage reduction on the Bounty Hunter's end only because they've got only 2 "Oh shrimp" buttons to work with. However, the fact that ours are all on 3 minute cooldowns makes it kind of a bit sad face educing considering the fact that, while the Bounty Hunter's cooldowns are on 120s cooldowns with 25% dmg Reduction and 15% health regen over 10s respectively, ours increase our health by about 6k for 10-14 seconds, reduce damage taken by 40%, and reduce melee/ranged dmg taken by 50% and Force/tech dmg by 25%.

 

Overall the only thing I'd like to see them change would be to make the talent point required dmg reduction skill, see warding call for JK's and Invincible for SW's, a 2 minute cooldown or possibly even a 90s cooldown, only because it requires a talent point that could be put elsewhere for different benefits and or cons. Maybe I'm just crazy in this. *shrug*

 

I personally don't care how much damage I do, I find that I can 1 v 1 almost everyone save for healers, Powertechs that are tank specced, and the Occasional scoundrel that crits me for somewhere between 6k-10k while I'm knocked down.

[Voeloes]

Some day, people will stop confusing crit numbers with dps. Then, St. Peter will sound the final trumpet of the apocalypse.

 

In all seriousness though, just because we don't have huge crits like other classes doesn't mean we have bad dps. Sure, they might be getting a 6k hit, but the skill might have been on a 2s cast timer. In rage spec on my jugg I was getting 3k+ crits on smash before I even had any max level pvp/pve gear (I've been running immortal since then because my guild needs me for tanking and I don't feel like spending the money respecing all the time). 3k in 1s is the same dps as 6k in 2s, it just doesn't look like it because all most people see is the big shiny numbers floating above their (or their opponents') head; they don't take the "seconds" part of "dps" into account, and thus think a class has bad dps because they can't get big crits.

 

To answer the OP's question, yes, you can do good (although slightly below top tier) dps with a jugg if specced and played properly. I'm of the opinion that veng is better for pve and rage is better for pvp, but really it all depends on your playstyle and what content you're running.

 

If I had a panda shaped cookie you would win it my good sir. Bravo!

[Noth]

Some day, people will stop confusing crit numbers with dps. Then, St. Peter will sound the final trumpet of the apocalypse.

 

In all seriousness though, just because we don't have huge crits like other classes doesn't mean we have bad dps. Sure, they might be getting a 6k hit, but the skill might have been on a 2s cast timer. In rage spec on my jugg I was getting 3k+ crits on smash before I even had any max level pvp/pve gear (I've been running immortal since then because my guild needs me for tanking and I don't feel like spending the money respecing all the time). 3k in 1s is the same dps as 6k in 2s, it just doesn't look like it because all most people see is the big shiny numbers floating above their (or their opponents') head; they don't take the "seconds" part of "dps" into account, and thus think a class has bad dps because they can't get big crits.

 

To answer the OP's question, yes, you can do good (although slightly below top tier) dps with a jugg if specced and played properly. I'm of the opinion that veng is better for pve and rage is better for pvp, but really it all depends on your playstyle and what content you're running.

 

MOst of thse skills that hit that hard have no cast time (See operative) or cast times equal to the GCD (see sniper and other caster classes) meaning they can fire them off just as fast as we can. They also tend to have lower cooldowns than our big hitters and hit from range or allow CC to be used similtaneously.

[Wikrosa]

tank class not hitting as hard as a dps class....unheardof

 

tankclasses are actually nonexistant...

[Bromo]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/23gxlab.jpg

 

There's proof of juggernaut dps. That's my juggernaut, Higgler. Juggernaut has a high skill cap, and they are by no means easy to play. If you want easy, reroll ranged class or operative, or stick it out and learn the class better and i'm sure you will end up liking the class more when you spend more time in pvp.

[Halykon]

@all the omg tank expects damage , fool, blabla

 

Wait what? Aren't the power tech and sith assassin offering competitive damage to and they're also tanks?

[Kolbenito]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/23gxlab.jpg

 

There's proof of juggernaut dps. That's my juggernaut, Higgler. Juggernaut has a high skill cap, and they are by no means easy to play. If you want easy, reroll ranged class or operative, or stick it out and learn the class better and i'm sure you will end up liking the class more when you spend more time in pvp.

 

No offense, and I'm sure you are playing your jugg well.

 

I don't see this happening in level 50 warzones when they are implemented and the trend is growing more towards ranged classes. Skill cap generally refers to what difference individual player ability brings to the class, I don't see juggs as having anything that sets them apart. If anything sorcerers and agents have a much higher skill cap by virtue of the many ways their class abilities can be used. Melee in this game are fairly "zergy" as far as thier toolbox goes.

[Fafnir]

People go on saying you´re a tank class etc etc etc. Well if my defence actually made up for dps classes offence i would not complain, but this is not the case.

[snuff]

Some day, people will stop confusing crit numbers with dps. Then, St. Peter will sound the final trumpet of the apocalypse.

 

In all seriousness though, just because we don't have huge crits like other classes doesn't mean we have bad dps. Sure, they might be getting a 6k hit, but the skill might have been on a 2s cast timer. In rage spec on my jugg I was getting 3k+ crits on smash before I even had any max level pvp/pve gear (I've been running immortal since then because my guild needs me for tanking and I don't feel like spending the money respecing all the time). 3k in 1s is the same dps as 6k in 2s, it just doesn't look like it because all most people see is the big shiny numbers floating above their (or their opponents') head; they don't take the "seconds" part of "dps" into account, and thus think a class has bad dps because they can't get big crits.

 

To answer the OP's question, yes, you can do good (although slightly below top tier) dps with a jugg if specced and played properly. I'm of the opinion that veng is better for pve and rage is better for pvp, but really it all depends on your playstyle and what content you're running.

 

your full of it and you know it. To get a high smash you have to have 4 points of shockwave up. it takes FAR more then 1 second to set all this up, then if you do set it all up you get a 3k+ smash IF the game isn't laggy and you smash next to the guy and see no damage because he really isn't there even though on your screen he is.

 

Don't even get me started with how buggy smash is, it applies damage at then END of the animation it seems and applies it to the location you STARTED the animation. So if you are chasing someone and keep him in your range while you are hitting smash you don't hit him because it doesn't do INSTA damage, and even though you land your smash right next to him the PBAOE is back where you started it.

[bliapis]

The biggest bane of any game is the gamers themselfs. Explicitly those who say "why tank should do damage" while you rolled a DPS tree.

 

 

Nothing good can get out of it if the cancer lays within the gamer himself.

[omninull]

Why people roll tanks and expect to put out as much DPS as Top Tier DPS classes is beyond me.

 

Possibly because one of the Juggernaut's class roles IS DPS.

Edited January 9, 2012 by omninull

[traemyn]

http://oi41.tinypic.com/23gxlab.jpg

 

There's proof of juggernaut dps. That's my juggernaut, Higgler. Juggernaut has a high skill cap, and they are by no means easy to play. If you want easy, reroll ranged class or operative, or stick it out and learn the class better and i'm sure you will end up liking the class more when you spend more time in pvp.

 

I PM'd you as well.. basically just wondering if you could fill us in on what you are doing differently than the people that are struggling. If its a gear/stat/spec thing please elaborate. If its a rotation/situational thing please elaborate on this too.

 

I have 8 pieces of Centurion/Champion gear and feel like I play my rotation/situation pretty well, and am Rage spec'd. However my avg end damage on huttball is about 100k and sometimes I can get over 150k but its only happened a few times.

[IreScath]

I love it when people equate big crits with dps.

 

I . just. love it!

[Sevvy]

Why people roll tanks and expect to put out as much DPS as Top Tier DPS classes is beyond me.

 

 

tank class not hitting as hard as a dps class....unheardof

 

Why you derps posting in this thread?

 

Vengeance and Rage specs are supposed to be on par with other DPS classes.

[Bromo]

I PM'd you as well.. basically just wondering if you could fill us in on what you are doing differently than the people that are struggling. If its a gear/stat/spec thing please elaborate. If its a rotation/situational thing please elaborate on this too.

 

I have 8 pieces of Centurion/Champion gear and feel like I play my rotation/situation pretty well, and am Rage spec'd. However my avg end damage on huttball is about 100k and sometimes I can get over 150k but its only happened a few times.

 

 

Well, as I am sure you are aware, rage juggs rely heavily on smash damage. I don't even smash unless i have the 100% crit and 4 stacks of power up on the target. Don't spam assault. In fact, I literally never use it; use sundering assault instead. Blow defensive cooldowns to stay up, and the real key is to stay alive long enough to maximize your damage. Use enrage when rage starved and make sure you never hit vicious slash - it is a *********** garbage ability and uses a load of rage. That's basically all I have - just stick to targets and make sure you are using interrupts. Oh yeah, and use shii-cho form. I can't tell you how many idiots I see in soresu form. There are a lot of great talents for shii-cho in the rage tree and if you really need soresu for survivability, you're doing it wrong. If you are a rage juggernaut, you are dps, not a tank, and shouldn't need to use guard. Hope that helps.

[joerumble]

PvP, Rage has amazing burst and decent mobility, this has been discussed to death.

 

PvE, I also think Rage is one of the better dps specs, possibly across ACs as well. The key is that a lot of PVE encounters emphasize short damage windows over long term sustained DPS. Everyone focuses on the Smash crits but they forget the 2.5k+ Screams and Crush crit ticking for 900. As many others have noted here the key are talents like Battle Cry who's value is two fold - not only does it make Obliterate net +1 Rage it also allows you to not use Assault as much.

 

Note - Accuracy is overly valued on Jugg DPS gear for the sake of Vengeance but serves very little purpose for Rage. You want as much Power and Surge as you can get. It's impossible to tell if mobs have resistance of any kind that can be overcome by Accuracy but in all my Operations I have never once seen Force Smash/Scream/Crush resisted.

 

Rage PvE Priority

Saber Throw

Do you have Dominate or 2+ stacks of Shockwave? Smash

Leap/Obliterate

Crush

Is Crush on cooldown, you're <9 Rage and you don't have Shockwave stacks? Choke

Is Shockwave stacking and you have Battle Cry? Scream

Smash

Scream

Vicious Throw

Are you <3 rage and a force attack is coming off cooldown? Enrage

Sundering Assault

Are you >3 rage and don't have a force attack for 3 seconds? Ravage

Assault/Vicious Strike

 

 

Obviously the first 3 Smashes should be full Shockwave + Dominate. After that it's worth delaying Smash to get one or the other but never wait to get both.

 

The key to Rage DPS is that it's heavily cooldown limited. Ideally you always want Smash, Scream, Crush, and Obliterate to be on cooldown. You then weave in Sundering Assaults/Ravage to bridge the gaps. This is why Vicious Strike is so bad - it's better to have a full rage bar when an Oblit->Scream->Smash comes off cooldown than waste time generating them.

 

There are a lot of nuances to this. For instance, you need to let Shockwave stack so really your Smash is cast 2 GCDs after you Force Crush which gives you time to burn Scream. Likewise Ravage is only used when you have enough rage sitting around to ensure your next Oblit/Scream/Crush/Smash can be used immediately.

 

This is a complex spec to play to achieve maximum dps, I make little mistakes constantly, but when you get into a good flow it's absolutely awesome damage.

Edited January 9, 2012 by joerumble