elenas Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 scalable UI is what is needed. None of this other crap should ever dilute TOR. Don't you mean 'pollute', not 'dilute'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renzetsu Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 im all for improving the UI and allow more customization to it.. but im totally against any sort of add-ons, like damage meters, combat logss, etc, etc, etc.. to me its pretty much just another form of cheating albeit a more milder one... it'll only benefit people who actually took the time and effort and risk to download or create those stuffs and is just not fair to the general public. so NO! if there is going to be such capabilities it should be something that is inherently available IN THE game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToliverGrey Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's about supply and demand. If you want to keep your customer base happy, allow the usage of community made addons. If you're a person who feels this ruins the game, no one is forcing you to use them. If they ruin the game by causing design and content changes, then it will ruin the game for the people who don't want addons too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemonjax Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Their UI needs to be improved in the following way to achieve perfect functionality: Debuffs need to be displayed in real time on party and ops framesCast bars need to be displayed prominently and in real time on target/focus framestarget selection via raid and ops frames needs to be more crisp/responsive And then you're good. Maybe that's good for you, but I really need the following before it feels good for me: Make everything on my screen movable, scalable, fade-able outside of combat, and let me set the visibility alpha on each. If I had the tools, I'd do it myself. Edited January 7, 2012 by Daemonjax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronamo Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Those of us playing MMO's since the 90's, understand addons (while useful) are a crutch, unnecessary fluff that appeals to the illusion of false elitism adopted by many (again, from WoW). And "useful" does not always mean "good" - in this particular case at least, it's my opinion that mods would severely hurt SWTOR, and bring it one step closer to that other game we already played for years... something we are all trying to distance ourselves from. Explain to me again how community driven user interface customization is harmful and "a crutch," please. I'm really not clear on the point of how being forced to watch square debuff timers with no numerical values as opposed to numerical values or bars is beneficial. I'm also severely confused about why wanting to be able to move my quickslot bars, enable better keybinding schemes (still one keypress one action), or remove useless interface chrome makes me or anyone else "bad." The sooner people quit believing that "addons" means "boss mods, meters, and gearscore," the sooner we can get around to a useful and innovative interface experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Once you have them it's hard to go back. which is why they should never add them. some of the functionality (like improved AH and better UI) can be added without third party addons, as for deadly boss mods? learn to special awareness. its gotten so bad in WoW that developers have to design encounters WITH addon use in mind. the damn things are required now.. no. just no. there's improving quality of life and then there's turning the game into mindless text/bar watching, all the while you try to mash your rotation as quickly as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insideman Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Not everyone gives a crap about your immersion. If you want to be immersed, fine, don't use addons, or parsers, or whatever else, but not all of us enjoy being smashed down to your level of mediocrity because the buff bar is literally too small to see, for instance, and the entire UI is equally atrocious. You sound ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The sooner people quit believing that "addons" means "boss mods, meters, and gearscore," the sooner we can get around to a useful and innovative interface experience. the problem is - OP and others DO want things like meters, boss mods and gearscore. I would love to have more UI customization. I would love to have better raid frames and keybinding capabilities, cast bars, target of target, etc. but. either this should be part of default game, or if bioware does allow for third party addons, they need to figure out how to disable creation of things like meters, bossmods and gearscore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairless Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 the problem is - OP and others DO want things like meters, boss mods and gearscore. I would love to have more UI customization. I would love to have better raid frames and keybinding capabilities, cast bars, target of target, etc. but. either this should be part of default game, or if bioware does allow for third party addons, they need to figure out how to disable creation of things like meters, bossmods and gearscore. Keep dreaming. BW already confirmed that damage meters are coming. Look, you are never going to get better if you don't know your DPS in comparison to other players. Why CHOOSE to be bad? Do you not have the intellectual ability to learn simple things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronamo Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) the problem is - OP and others DO want things like meters, boss mods and gearscore. I would love to have more UI customization. I would love to have better raid frames and keybinding capabilities, cast bars, target of target, etc. but. either this should be part of default game, or if bioware does allow for third party addons, they need to figure out how to disable creation of things like meters, bossmods and gearscore. That's incredibly easy. Just don't allow a hook in the API for reading from the as-yet-to-be-implemented combat log, or to the inspection frame. It's not a difficult thing for the developers to do when creating an API and UI framework. Keep dreaming. BW already confirmed that damage meters are coming. Look, you are never going to get better if you don't know your DPS in comparison to other players. Why CHOOSE to be bad? Do you not have the intellectual ability to learn simple things? Quote your source. They did confirm that a combat log is on the way, but anything beyond that is unsubstantiated inference or speculation. Edited January 7, 2012 by Ronamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Addons lead to easy Easy leads to bad kids Bad kids lead to hate Hate leads to suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I think addons gimp the game. Addons are to fix broken elements, some are. Others are used to give players an advantage over others, the latter are cheesy IMO. Maybe they plan to implement all the features we need to get the job done. Ui scaling is in the works and other features similar to the ones you say u need Addons for. But yeah no Addons or macros is a good thing IMO. Less it turn into a 2button rotation game and recount watching dpsers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 there's improving quality of life and then there's turning the game into mindless text/bar watching, all the while you try to mash your rotation as quickly as possible. Actually, that's what it is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Quote your source. They did confirm that a combat log is on the way, but anything beyond that is unsubstantiated inference or speculation. This is actually irrelevant. All it takes is a combat log and players will have a damage meter whether Bioware allows it or not. ACT makes overlays for games that don't have addon support. It's what we used way back in Everquest and it's only gotten better since then. Damage meters are literally inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronamo Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 This is actually irrelevant. All it takes is a combat log and players will have a damage meter whether Bioware allows it or not. ACT makes overlays for games that don't have addon support. It's what we used way back in Everquest and it's only gotten better since then. Damage meters are literally inevitable. I'm actually perfectly fine with damage meters one way or another. I believe that useful metrics help improve gameplay when people understand how to use them. That people are capable of being total jerks is not a function of the tools provided. The same people are the ones that ragequit warzones and earn zero rewards instead of waiting a few minutes on a loss and receiving rewards, or rather than offering constructive criticism on how to avoid future wipes, simply type "...." in chat. If meters happen, they happen. If they don't, they don't. But a dislike of meters is no reason to completely eliminate any opportunity for any other community driven interface modification. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Game doesn't need add-ons, it needs in game features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Actually, that's what it is right now. maybe the way you play it. i actually have to watch my screen, ALL of my screen, because if I don't want to get out of stuff, i don't have text in the middle of the screen yelling at me, I need to watch where I'm standing and where I'm going. and need to watch for casts, instead of getting a "handy" INTERRUPT NOW! and I need to decide what to interrupt and what to leave alone. etc, etc. Keep dreaming. BW already confirmed that damage meters are coming. Look, you are never going to get better if you don't know your DPS in comparison to other players. Why CHOOSE to be bad? Do you not have the intellectual ability to learn simple things? right. because being good is all about maximizing numbers and nothing else amirite? the thing about combat logs is that smart players use them to analyze the fight in general, see what they died from, see if an ability hit too late or too early, if there was an issue with triage/priority, etc. shortsighted people, which sadly are the majority of those who like damage meters, would rather "win the recount" then be a team player. I cannot tell you how many times I was *****ed at for being lower on the "damage" or "healing" numbers, because i was the only one interrupting and decursing. and lets not even start on "discipline priests suck for healing" becasue unlike reading combat logs, for the longest time damage meters didn't register damage absorption. and they don't register if someone did try to hit interrupt or decurse or anything else and just missed it by half a second, unlike reading combat logs. (why is it important you ask.. well, why are they missing casts? is it becasue someone else sniped them? is it becasue they may be lagging? or something else? those situations have different solutions to them) any addons that boil down multifaceted encounters and situations to simplified numbers make you a worse player instead of a better one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnia Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 To make swtor good = A Proc alert (around ur character and the icon). Focus, Target of Target, and Bigger buf frames, like WoW has, i cant barely see mines. AND MOUSEOVER:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodimaster Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Glad there wont be any Addons that will help people defeat a boss in an encounter! Do people really have ADD that play these games? can't you simply just pay attention to the boss fights? If you're about to get mugged, does a addon in life says you're about to get mugged in 5 secs please RUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodimaster Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 addons lead to easy easy leads to bad kids bad kids lead to hate hate leads to suffering. 10/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanomancer Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 im glad add-ons will not be authorized. Go play WoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Seriously, this thread is still going? There are still people trying desperately to "prove" that their addon driven hand holders who help them play the game don't actually help them play the game? Edited January 7, 2012 by SlickDevlan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Play the game.....Addon provided by common sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) maybe the way you play it. i actually have to watch my screen, ALL of my screen, because if I don't want to get out of stuff, i don't have text in the middle of the screen yelling at me, I need to watch where I'm standing and where I'm going. and need to watch for casts, instead of getting a "handy" INTERRUPT NOW! and I need to decide what to interrupt and what to leave alone. etc, etc. right. because being good is all about maximizing numbers and nothing else amirite? the thing about combat logs is that smart players use them to analyze the fight in general, see what they died from, see if an ability hit too late or too early, if there was an issue with triage/priority, etc. shortsighted people, which sadly are the majority of those who like damage meters, would rather "win the recount" then be a team player. I cannot tell you how many times I was *****ed at for being lower on the "damage" or "healing" numbers, because i was the only one interrupting and decursing. and lets not even start on "discipline priests suck for healing" becasue unlike reading combat logs, for the longest time damage meters didn't register damage absorption. and they don't register if someone did try to hit interrupt or decurse or anything else and just missed it by half a second, unlike reading combat logs. (why is it important you ask.. well, why are they missing casts? is it becasue someone else sniped them? is it becasue they may be lagging? or something else? those situations have different solutions to them) any addons that boil down multifaceted encounters and situations to simplified numbers make you a worse player instead of a better one. The problem is no matter how hard you, others and myself try to explain that to the pro dps meter people all they come back with you must suck at dps if you do not want a dps meter. Whats so funny is we do not have dps or any addons right now and shockingly we can kill raid bosses. We do not have healbot yet i somehow can heal everyone. I do not have a decurser but i can tell who i have to check for a debuff and then cleanse it. We do not have DBM yet we are able to tell when a boss is about to cast a big attack and move out of its way. Somehow, without all these addons to make the fight better for the "elites players", we succeed and can actually watch and enjoy the fights. Edited January 7, 2012 by Baaddare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOG_Hammer Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Glad they won't allow these. Such addons force the developers to change the content to suit the addons, meaning it changes the content of the game for everyone. WoW entered that cycle where addons simplified the game, so developers had to throw more crap into every encounter to overcome the addons, leading to the steaming pile of junk WoW is today. Completelly untrue. Add-ons is a functionnality of the WoW game. It is actually a button that you can activate, provided you have some add-ons. Add-ons in WoW mostly always have been authorized, if you only used the provided Lua code to create them. In my experience, Blizzard might have updated the game in order that CERTAIN add-ons that might give an advantage in PvP should be rendered obsolete, but most of the most popular add-ons are still authorized and updated when the game itself gets updated. Having a quest helper does not provide any advantage over anyone, it just render quest runs a lot less annoying. Having a boss fight add-on does only provide information that would otherwise be hidden to the player. Their code is secured enough in order to block certains functions inside the game so that you would not be able to program add-on that would circonvent the rules of the game. I would understand the position of Bioware that since it is a new game, and since they are still ruling bugs out of it, letting add-ons to be created would lead to more problems then it would resolve. WoW is stable enough to allow add-ons to be written, and in some cases, even run while the version might be out of date. They might have not included any scripting language for you to create add-ons. But why would you want add-ons for swtor is beyond comprehension. That game is already easy like it is. If you can't figure that when you see ground marking that should hint at AoE attack, no addon will help. Watching what a boss is doing prior to certain attacks should help a lot. You do not need addons to do that. I will concede that the UI might be a little weak in many areas. DPS counter and heal helpers are never necessary. You can still do a great job in healing just by looking at the health bars of your party members. DPS counters are only for bragging rights, nothing else. It doesn't tell anything about your skill. Put the greatest gear possible, the closest possible to your char level, optimized for your class, and you should be good. Do a lot of side quests, flashpoints, and heroics, collect every possible <planet name> recommendations, and you should always have an edge, gear wise. Most of the quest rewards have a choice between a nice piece of gear or a recommendation token. By the time you complete a planet, you should have enough reccomendations to buy a good piece of gear, or a nice mod for one that you already equip. Edited January 7, 2012 by MOG_Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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