Dubbss Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Wasnt showing that its decent. Im showing that its not completely awful compared to every other class as everyone else is claiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathoran Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You've clearly never PvP'd or played another class if you think Juggernaut DPS is fine. Her let me fill you in on what 'fine' DPS looks like. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!! sorry i had to get your attention. This video is ********. This is only a small small small fragment of the pvp, wich is the best 10 sec of a full bg. Ill start saying this for people who played rift. Pyromancer. You need all the planets align to do that. Just look at her buff bar, what do you see? Double dps increase battleground buff most of the time, epic adrenals, maxed out stims, cooldowns popped. So you are asking that a tank class that you probably play badly seeing how impressed you are with this video to compare with an AC that can only be dps (gunslinger and sniper have only 3 dps tree) that you will never be a healer and a tank, you are confined to only dps will match head to head? Thats ******** look on the jedi forum , in the new post there is some pvp video. A jedikngiht with some pvp buff too reach some 7k crit in aoe etc. It is doable but you need to align stars and consumable , blow cooldowns to reach that your video is just some pvp ******** hyped moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Someone told me they were playing on PTS and they were buffed but I can't find any patch notes on what they did. Only Bioware knows the answer to this. I have yet to see the acknowledgement to Jugg DPS complaints and comment about it being addressed in a patch, including google cache searches. I don't doubt that it will happen though. Sucks the most iconic classes went live in crappy shape but that seems to be the MMO curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolbenito Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You've clearly never PvP'd or played another class if you think Juggernaut DPS is fine. Her let me fill you in on what 'fine' DPS looks like. Do you have any idea how retarded this game would be if everyone did that kind of damage? There is nothing 'fine' about it. A damage increase for Juggs/Guardians is in order, I won't be shocked if Ops/Smugglers and possibly Sorcerers get a damage reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brene Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Do you have any idea how retarded this game would be if everyone did that kind of damage? There is nothing 'fine' about it. A damage increase for Juggs/Guardians is in order, I won't be shocked if Ops/Smugglers and possibly Sorcerers get a damage reduction. I was simply showing him the vast gap between a single class and Juggernaut. I could have used Merc... Operative... Sorc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubbss Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I was simply showing him the vast gap between a single class and Juggernaut. I could have used Merc... Operative... Sorc... And i couldve gone onto my warrior and frapsed me critting for loads. It shows nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTBolt Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Please, don't tease me. I cant wait for the fanbois to drop the class. The good players know how to utilize the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses of the class. If you're juggernaut for straight dps, you're probably not part of this group. i so agree. I woop some *** in both pvp and pve and i just hit 50 not too long ago ^^ If you play him well you do well. Enough said ^^ Note: Some jugg buffing wont hurt anyone though...but that will just make him OP i think^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brene Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 And i couldve gone onto my warrior and frapsed me critting for loads. It shows nothing. Please, go FRAPS even ONE fight where you kill them in under 10 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 And i couldve gone onto my warrior and frapsed me critting for loads. It shows nothing. It would not be 5k crits followed by 3k crits followed by other 2k+ crits. You may get 5k crits with a smash build if you get all the damage buffs and stims, but otherwise the highest smash you would see is a 4k, then you'd hit like a wet noodle. Vengeance can get a string of 3k, 2.5k, 1.5k crits, but that is nothing compared to what gunslinger/snipers, scoundrels/operatives, and shadows/assassins can output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-SWA- Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It still eludes me if people talk about (a possibly) underperforming PvP-DPS or PvE-DPS, in regards to the Juggernaut. I haven't fought a single PvP-battle in this game yet, so I have absolutely no idea how the Juggernaut performs in PvP. As for PvE though, to state that DPS-specced Juggernauts cannot find teams to get on - is this for a certain stage in the game? For 50's and Hardmodes only? Or the entire Juggernaut's career? I haven't heard a SINGLE complaint yet about my spec or ability to deal damage and I play on a large PvP-server. I have been playing nothing but a Vengeance Juggernaut, and I absotely love the class / spec. Would not play anything else! It seems to perform mostly as advertized. Or is there something I am unaware of, not having played other classes yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glocknall Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 No Jugg love coming in 1.1 as the PST notes state currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonerjohn Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It would not be 5k crits followed by 3k crits followed by other 2k+ crits. You may get 5k crits with a smash build if you get all the damage buffs and stims, but otherwise the highest smash you would see is a 4k, then you'd hit like a wet noodle. Vengeance can get a string of 3k, 2.5k, 1.5k crits, but that is nothing compared to what gunslinger/snipers, scoundrels/operatives, and shadows/assassins can output. Lets say you were married to an ugly woman. You didn't know the woman was ugly because you hadn't seen any other women. Now if someone came along and told you how incredibly ugly she was, would you want to hear it? Let them stay happy! Tell them she is a fox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsexy Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I do more damage than that in PVP currently with those buffs running. I'm missing about 6 PVP pieces, and I don't have tier 2 dps items to fill those spots as I'm tanking for raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzle_flash Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 They need to be really careful with buffing this class. The majority of people out there are just playing the class badly and screaming for help, its not in any way shape or form broken. If they give this class a hefty buff, those who are proficient in its use are going to become killers, and the ones who are really good? well... unkillable god-like savages. We need the juggernaut community, those who enjoy and can play it anyway, to be a little more vocal about the issue I think. We don't want a class that either A) Provides no fun because you just faceroll anything or B) gets nerfed and buffed so often that its a pale shade of its once true greatness Seriously peeps, be patient, and accept the fact that you ARE going to have to work harder than other classes for the big numbers etc (or whatever floats your boat) Juggy aint broken, ask anyone who comes up against a seriously skilled and equally expertise geared juggernaut how it went Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naselus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Can we quit with the endless videos and SSs of crits and damage outputs? It ALWAYS goes like this: JUGGSUX: Here is a SS of the end of a warzone where a level 11 Juggernaught was outdpsed by a fully-buffed level 50 Sorc who was spamming AOEs for 20 full minutes. JUGGROX: Ha, there are so many problems with that video. Here is another video of a level 50 Jugg with all buffs coming top on a warzone scoreboard full of healers. JUGGSUX: That video is nonsense. Here is a SS of a Sorc getting a 5k crit on someone. JUGGROX: Pfah, that proves nothing! here is an SS of a Smash-specced Jugg in full PVP gear getting 5 5-7k smash crits on a pack of enemies. JUGGSUX: Ha, I spit upon your SS, clearly the phases of the moon had aligned to make this happen and it is so extraordinarily rare as to never, ever happen. Here is yet another SS of a Sorc critting someone for 6k, and I will solemnly swear that this happens every time the sorc presses any button anywhere, including the button on the lift in the Imperial fleet, because they are such unlimited puddles of pure spunky awesomeness. I will also insist that when my Jugg attacks things, I actually heal them because my DPS is so bad. JUGGROX: Lies! I prove it thus. Here is a photograph of a gay kitten. Every time I enter a Warzone, all of my opponents instantly turn into this and I stride through them with my amazing skillz. You clearly just suck at the class, for I am the greatest player who has ever lived, and I rrecently soloed all the FPs and Operations single-handed with no consumables in the space of fifteen minutes, onehanded, without a lightsaber, while writing a sonnet in Mandarin and engaged in oral sex. JUGGSUX: No, it is completely impossible that I might not be getting the full potential out of the class, in spite of well-known combat bugs such as the ability delay and the GCD-refresh-on-defense bug. These things cannot possibly impact on my own munificent playing skills, and so therefore it is obvious the class is broken beyond repair. I shall now ramble for ten minutes about how marvellously amazing I would have been as a sorc, assassin or Powertech, for there are no disadvantages whatsoever to the mechanics of these classes and they are made of pure win. And on and on and on. One side of the debate posts an SS showing something, and the other side instantly point out the buffs, the rarity of the event, the gearing of the participants etc, and then IMMEDIATELY POST ANOTHER SS WITH THE SAME FLAWS to support their own argument. There's about twenty different threads that have followed this pattern, and it's just getting silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheToony Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/wOwam.jpg http://i.imgur.com/pB9kP.jpg Also that video is clearly not "fine" dps if the whole video is there just to show high sets of crits It may be worth noting the consular right below you on the list in the first pic is 16 levels below yet did very comparable damage while at the same time doing ten times as much healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heith Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 ya i have a level 43 juggernaut im giving up on until they get buffed and im gonna focus on my powertech. hes level 23 and so far he feels significantly stronger in every aspect, including the one i care about most, tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 They need to be really careful with buffing this class. The majority of people out there are just playing the class badly and screaming for help, its not in any way shape or form broken. If they give this class a hefty buff, those who are proficient in its use are going to become killers, and the ones who are really good? well... unkillable god-like savages. We need the juggernaut community, those who enjoy and can play it anyway, to be a little more vocal about the issue I think. We don't want a class that either A) Provides no fun because you just faceroll anything or B) gets nerfed and buffed so often that its a pale shade of its once true greatness Seriously peeps, be patient, and accept the fact that you ARE going to have to work harder than other classes for the big numbers etc (or whatever floats your boat) Juggy aint broken, ask anyone who comes up against a seriously skilled and equally expertise geared juggernaut how it went The issues lie in the dps area. If the Jugg specs dps and uses the given form for the tree they are squish mode with the lowest survivability of any dps class while putting out lesser dps (yes rage can burst, but it's burst is something other classes can do more often). Hell my level 18 Op that lacks it's survivabilty cooldowns can put up numbers better than my jugg. (please note I often lead in medals, protection and top 5 in damage in most warzones I do so I'm not bad at playing one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzle_flash Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The issues lie in the dps area. If the Jugg specs dps and uses the given form for the tree they are squish mode with the lowest survivability of any dps class while putting out lesser dps (yes rage can burst, but it's burst is something other classes can do more often). Hell my level 18 Op that lacks it's survivabilty cooldowns can put up numbers better than my jugg. (please note I often lead in medals, protection and top 5 in damage in most warzones I do so I'm not bad at playing one). I think whats happening here though is that your playstyle is suited to protection, guard duty and healer/friendly uptime, and your good at it. This is of course being vital to a winning team, but its also not the direction that all juggs go. In shien form, we're arent really as squishy as you make it sound We do lose a chunk of survivability of course, but we can still take a pounding if we play to our strengths and use positioning, effective cooldown use and knowing when to get out of a situation. (You have to remember in dps mode your not there to take a beating, your there to spike dps high priority targets and pressure healers.) In relation to how our burst works, using force choke as a refiller for shockwave instead of popping it whenever its up means the smash build damage can be brought to bare almost constantly. (Your going to want to get the obliterate off of course aswell so that adds further time to the shockwave cycle) If you have a level 18 op doing more than your juggy in terms of dps, your filling a tank role and not looking for damage, or your... afk Anyway, it all seems to me that our different playstyles in terms of WZ's is where we're getting caught up, and really, that won't ever change, and its good too because you certainly dont want everyone playing the same Give a rage smash build a try for a while, if you have the expertise gear to negate the dps drop that the expertise the enemies have provides, I think you'll be happy with the results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubbss Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It may be worth noting the consular right below you on the list in the first pic is 16 levels below yet did very comparable damage while at the same time doing ten times as much healing. You realise that as a ranged class it is incredibley easy to get high damage yeh? no positional requirments, huge ranges on abilities. They can just sit back dot everything up and spam **** whilst i can hit single targets within melee range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naselus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You realise that as a ranged class it is incredibley easy to get high damage yeh? no positional requirments, huge ranges on abilities. They can just sit back dot everything up and spam **** whilst i can hit single targets within melee range I think that might be his entire point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubbss Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I think that might be his entire point... This has been the same with every single other MMO tbh. Any ranged class with DoTs get high damage very easily. Damage != doing well, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naselus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 This has been the same with every single other MMO tbh. Any ranged class with DoTs get high damage very easily. Damage != doing well, though Yeah, range has all the advantages really - greater aggro tolerances, more damage output, better positioning etc. And tbh, I am on the 'we don't suck' side of the debate. But since screenshots, WZ scoreboards, video evidence and all the rest don't seem to sway the 'juggs suck completely' crowd at all, I've pretty much given up arguing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubbss Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yeah, range has all the advantages really - greater aggro tolerances, more damage output, better positioning etc. And tbh, I am on the 'we don't suck' side of the debate. But since screenshots, WZ scoreboards, video evidence and all the rest don't seem to sway the 'juggs suck completely' crowd at all, I've pretty much given up arguing it. Indeed. In my opinion its a huge PEBCAK (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair). We could do with some changes, ravage for example, useless ability. But we arent terrible and useless as a class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naselus Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Indeed. In my opinion its a huge PEBCAK (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair). We could do with some changes, ravage for example, useless ability. But we arent terrible and useless as a class. I don't know - I'm loathe to make assumptions on a player's skill level without all the details. Stuff like gearing and level play a big part - at level 25, a jugg is pretty cack because all the good abilities unlock later, tho if you're only level 25 you probably shouldn't be claiming the class is shafted. And there's enough people on the 'there's nothing wrong' side to make the various dismissals silly - enough of us have alt characters, or played in the Beta, or have a decent understanding that you can't brush it off with 'play another class and you'll see how broken we are'. But yes, we need a fair bit of work. Our talent trees buff too many abilities, so you're trying to manage 10 or more medium-high c/d damage skills rather than 4 mediums and a couple of big hitters; and yes, Ravage is useless all round. But those are minor things rather that the Earth-shattering, class-breaking ruination that it's painted as. If you're getting more damage out of your level 19 Op than your level 50 Jugg, then you're doing something horribly wrong, so it's not a great statement of support for a class problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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