Why no imperial trooper

[vinnia]

Ah now i get it xD

[Nizzemancer]

You are not the most elite in the Republic. You are not a spec ops guy who can order padawans around. A republic trooper is just a average soldier following orders.

 

wow...troll much?

 

Yes, you are the Republics most elite soldier...and obviously you can't order Padawans around because the Jedi Order is not part of the Republic military, it's a religious order with it's own agenda, that just happen to be on the same side as the Republic. The sith big wigs on the other hand call the shots in the Empire, regardless of what the moffs say.

 

Some of you people have obviously not played one iota of this game and really are just pulling stuff out of your heineys.

[DarkestDaemon]

Who the heck cares whether the sith with helmets fell. We should be discussing the trooper and not whether the helmet makes you good or not.

 

I'm making a point.

 

The Sith with helmets were dropping easily. The troopers with helmets were dropping easily. Malgus and the Commander were the only two who didn't fall under normal circumstances.

 

Neither had helmets.

[alienstalker]

Why not just do it the same way Republic tin cans do in Havok Squad? You don't have to grind through basic training and then years of grunt service in TOR before joining this "elite special forces" unit.

 

Because we want the average soldiers experience, not automatically sent to a elite squad.

[Nesta]

I'm with the op on that, it's been bugging me for some time now, given the importance of the imperial army in the lore.

 

I rolled a republic trooper and everytime I see an imperial trooper I wish I could roll one.

Their armor design is so much better I wish I could steal it from the NPCs.

The story would have so much potential (Yes I want more questionable orders, I want to strive to be respected and most important I want to serve the empire rather than the republic).

I tried the imperial agent, and it's fun but he's no trooper, he doesn't wear heavy armor nor is he part of the army.

 

The more I play the more I wish I could be an imperial trooper.

[alienstalker]

Anyway I have to go I'll be back tomorrow.

[PJEBarlow]

Because we want the average soldiers experience, not automatically sent to a elite squad.

 

The problem with this, though, is exactly the same reason why you play a special forces soldier if you play a Republic trooper. Because you won't have a whole platoon of NPC troopers with you.

 

A number of people fundamentally against the idea of an "Imperial trooper" have already mentioned that as a standard trooper you won't be sent on missions alone, or with one other trooper (your companion), which is why I think it would be better for an Imperial trooper class to also be based on some form of Imperial special forces.

 

Role-play a grunt, that's fine, but the class would need a story.

Edited January 6, 2012 by PJEBarlow

[hashieno]

I only read to page 3, but I have to remind you guys if no one has yet that this is NOT the republic/empire that we know from the movies, so troop comparisons based on that are... well... not relevant. That said, the storm trooper that we all know and love doesn't exist yet in this timeline. Thus, something different.

[Traumahawk]

More important question is, what would be the expansion class for the Empire? Maybe it's another Imp ("government") class. Edited January 6, 2012 by Traumahawk

[PJEBarlow]

I only read to page 3, but I have to remind you guys if no one has yet that this is NOT the republic/empire that we know from the movies, so troop comparisons based on that are... well... not relevant. That said, the storm trooper that we all know and love doesn't exist yet in this timeline. Thus, something different.

 

I don't think anyone on the last fourteen pages has been talking about Galactic Empire Stormtroopers, but have been talking about the black-armoured Sith Empire troopers we see in the game.

[hashieno]

I don't think anyone on the last fourteen pages has been talking about Galactic Empire Stormtroopers, but have been talking about the black-armoured Sith Empire troopers we see in the game.

 

As I said, I only read to page 3, and in those first 3 pages there are many mentions of the movies and there are even mentions of the storm troopers themselves. Apparently someone was thinking in those terms. As I said, I only read to page 3. I only read to page 3. I only.

[ColonelColt]

Actually, yeah, they probably do have that many commando squads that come from a single company. Your thinking if confined to a single planet. The Republic has a large number of planets to draw from, each having large populations.

 

So armed forces numbering upwards into the billions would not be out of the question.

 

Funny how you say my thinking is confined to a planet. Even if they have millions of soldiers and thousands of special ops soldiers. To dedicate THAT many commandos to a single planet for no reason at all is strategic suicide. Commandos do the missions normal soldiers can't do. What part of their mission on alderaan seemed like something normal soldiers couldn't do? Shooting sith, soldiers and droids are what normal soldiers are trained for, you don't waste commandos on something like that.

 

 

 

 

You're wrong on the first part. I also never said they were gods, but you're clearly able to put words into my mouth. Put it this way, if you're a regular soldier and the enemy you fight -suddenly flips over your head- chances are there's a '***' moment.

 

Also, play through The Esseles flashpoint. That's a good example of what a Sith can do that isn't overpowered.

 

 

If you're a regular soldier fighting an enemy that suddenly flips over your head, you laugh at his stupidity because he is now dead since your buddy shot him in the back. Force users are nowhere near that flashy in actual combat since they end up like I just describe. In fact the best thing they can do is deflect bolts back at the shooters. The nice thing about being a regular trooper is you don't fight alone, and jedi/sith don't handle large numbers very well.

 

 

So, as someone else said, they'd need to put in a completely new mechanic that allows for a single person to have 3-4 companions out at a time. This character class also couldn't partake in pvp, because they'd rely on 3-4 companions in a regular setting and in a pvp setting would be all but useless since they can't have companions. Now in a group setting such as heroic quests, flashpoints or ops, they would once more be useless since they can't have their 'squad' of companions.

 

They'd basically be a single-player class in a multiplayer setting. Bioware would have to devote a lot of resources to the game in redesigning it for this class. Resources that could be better spent developing new content for the heroic classes.

 

And don't even bring up 'They can function well in group settings along' because they couldn't. That wouldn't make them your everyday soldier, but a person elite enough to be joining up with Sith, Imperial Intelligence and veteran bounty hunters.

 

This is just false. As I said in another post you can come up with story-reasons for why the trooper is alone or with just his companion. I myself gave two such possibilities. This is a strawman argument at best so I wont indulge it very much.

[Scandana]

Thank you OP thank you. I been wondering that myself. I have had a blast playing republic trooper in beta, then I saw imp trooper npcs and was like wth, why can I NOT be one of those?

[UjellyTrollicus]

I don't even know if he WAS a commander of an elite commando unit. To be honest I doubt he was. I said even if HE was special, not that he was commanding something special.

 

actually he was the commander of an elite commando unit.

 

 

havoc squad to be precise.

[ColonelColt]

actually he was the commander of an elite commando unit.

 

 

havoc squad to be precise.

 

Huh, good to know. Still though, he end of the trailer shores hundreds of flares which means hundreds of other squads/platoons. It's illogical to believe they'd all be super elite commando units, commando units aren't common enough to dedicate THOUSANDS of them to a single planet.

[Liquidacid]

Because we want the average soldiers experience, not automatically sent to a elite squad.

 

then join the army in real life...

[ColonelColt]

then join the army in real life...

 

Did you honestly just say that? Really? "You want to enjoy the fantasy of being a soldier, so go risk your life, get sent to one of the most miserable places on the planet, and generally forfeit your freedoms for the next four years"

 

Go away.

[DarkestDaemon]

Funny how you say my thinking is confined to a planet. Even if they have millions of soldiers and thousands of special ops soldiers. To dedicate THAT many commandos to a single planet for no reason at all is strategic suicide. Commandos do the missions normal soldiers can't do. What part of their mission on alderaan seemed like something normal soldiers couldn't do? Shooting sith, soldiers and droids are what normal soldiers are trained for, you don't waste commandos on something like that.

 

An Imperial held planet. A strategic launching point in the system. A world with resources that could help tip the balance in either direction. That's something you send elites in for. And no, normal soldiers are no trained to kill Sith. They are trained to kill other normal soldiers and droids.

 

If you're a regular soldier fighting an enemy that suddenly flips over your head, you laugh at his stupidity because he is now dead since your buddy shot him in the back. Force users are nowhere near that flashy in actual combat since they end up like I just describe. In fact the best thing they can do is deflect bolts back at the shooters. The nice thing about being a regular trooper is you don't fight alone, and jedi/sith don't handle large numbers very well.

 

Yes they do handle large numbers very well. What they don't handle well is being surprise attacked. And chances are if you have a buddy behind you, unless he's standing -DIRECTLY BEHIND YOU- and has mirrored ever move you've made... the Sith/Jedi will know he's there.

 

This is just false. As I said in another post you can come up with story-reasons for why the trooper is alone or with just his companion. I myself gave two such possibilities. This is a strawman argument at best so I wont indulge it very much.

 

There isn't a reason for him to be alone. He isn't elite. He isn't special forces. He's your run of the mill grunt. They don't send grunts alone unless they're messengers. If you're a grunt you're going to be a part of a squad. If you're a corporal, you're going to be functioning with a squad. If you're a sergeant you're going to be functioning with a squad.

 

Unless you're special forces. Then there is leeway for functioning like Rambo.

[Liquidacid]

Did you honestly just say that? Really? "You want to enjoy the fantasy of being a soldier, so go risk your life, get sent to one of the most miserable places on the planet, and generally forfeit your freedoms for the next four years"

 

Go away.

 

 

 

if you want to play some generic grunt than video games are not for you especially BW ones... to think someone would waste the time creating a class for you to play generic unimportant trooper number 73654 is just idiotic... 0311 0317 for most of my adult life and there is nothing "videogame" worthy about the lifestyle... It's like saying they should make a "file clerk" class

 

 

 

Huh, good to know. Still though, he end of the trailer shores hundreds of flares which means hundreds of other squads/platoons. It's illogical to believe they'd all be super elite commando units, commando units aren't common enough to dedicate THOUSANDS of them to a single planet.

 

 

there are over 13 million different sapient species in the SW galaxy inhabiting Billions of worlds... even if 1 out of ever 100,000 trooper were special forces sending thousands to a planet would be next to nothing... not even a drop in the bucket... Hell the USA is just one country of many on one world and we sent over a thousand special forces troops just to the middle east...

Edited January 6, 2012 by Liquidacid

[ColonelColt]

An Imperial held planet. A strategic launching point in the system. A world with resources that could help tip the balance in either direction. That's something you send elites in for. And no, normal soldiers are no trained to kill Sith. They are trained to kill other normal soldiers and droids.

 

Alderaan actually isn't that strategic. It's position in the galaxy is not near any major supply routes... anything, really. Unless they arbitrarily gave it some amazing significance in TOR. But even so, you send an army to defend strategic locations, not a handful of commandos. Why do you think the army exists? Jesus talking with you makes me think you think the army could just be disolved, so long as we have commando units who needs an army?

 

Also, if soldiers were trained to kill force users in KOTOR, pretty sure they'd be trained to kill force users in TOR.

 

 

Yes they do handle large numbers very well. What they don't handle well is being surprise attacked. And chances are if you have a buddy behind you, unless he's standing -DIRECTLY BEHIND YOU- and has mirrored ever move you've made... the Sith/Jedi will know he's there.

 

See, you're showing your ignorance to lore. Jedi/Sith do NOT handle large numbers very well at all. Hell, episode 2 showcases this perfectly when over 200 jedi died to a swarm of battledroids. Their lightsabers can only be in one location at any given time. If two blaster bolts come at them, one from one side and another from another side, they can only deflect one of those bolts. Sure movement helps but it's far easier to move your army an inch to the side then it is for you to do flips to the side. Force users get creamed hard when fighting large numbers of enemies, this is canon fact and not something you can dispute (at least not unless you just enjoy being told you're wrong)

 

 

 

There isn't a reason for him to be alone. He isn't elite. He isn't special forces. He's your run of the mill grunt. They don't send grunts alone unless they're messengers. If you're a grunt you're going to be a part of a squad. If you're a corporal, you're going to be functioning with a squad. If you're a sergeant you're going to be functioning with a squad.

 

Unless you're special forces. Then there is leeway for functioning like Rambo.

 

Actually this is a misconception. People like going "you're special forces, go nuts". But special forces work in squads too. They never operate solo. This isn't James Bond here, this is Navy Seals. You don't send a lone Seal to Iran and expect him to get the job done. You send a squad of Seals. So it's evident by the trooper storyline that Bioware has no problem ignoring common military protocol if they feel it makes a better story.

 

And as I've said, there are a lot of ways you can explain the trooper being solo and away from his squad. Maybe his squad died in combat and he's the sole survivor fighting to get back. Maybe his squad leader sent him and a buddy (his companion) off to recon an area and then shenanigans happen along the way. Maybe something else happens that I don't feel like thinking about.

 

The fact remains that story-wise you could very well be part of a squad, but through various circumstances you find yourself operating solo on quests. This is not a justifiable reason and you really should drop it.

Edited January 6, 2012 by ColonelColt

[PJEBarlow]

if you want to play some generic grunt than video games are not for him especially BW ones... to think someone would waste the time creating a class for you to play generic unimportant trooper number 73654 is just idiotic...

 

It's funny because so many people wanted to play Imperial/Rebel "grunts" in Star Wars Galaxies.

[ColonelColt]

if you want to play some generic grunt than video games are not for you especially BW ones... to think someone would waste the time creating a class for you to play generic unimportant trooper number 73654 is just idiotic... 0311 0317 for most of my adult life and there is nothing "videogame" worthy about the lifestyle... It's like saying they should make a "file clerk" class

 

It's this very misconception that caused SoE to kill SWG. People DO want to play generic grunts because it goes back to wanting to do stuff you can't do in real life. Sure I COULD join the army, but I don't want to. In fact a lot of the stuff you do on TOR you could do in real life. You want to be a jedi cutting through a swath of enemies? Take a sword to your local college. But you're not going to, are you? Why? Because it's not the same? Because you're not psychotic? Because you don't want to die/get thrown in prison? Same applies to wanting to play a generic grunt. I don't want to join the army, I don't want to get shipped to the middle east, I don't want to risk dying in combat. Doesn't mean I don't want to live the fantasy though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

there are over 13 million different sapient species in the SW galaxy inhabiting Billions of worlds... even if one 1 out of ever 100,000 trooper were special forces sending thousands to a planet would be next to nothing... not even a drop in the bucket... Hell the USA is just one country of many on one world and we sent thousands of special forces troops just to the middle east...

 

Where, exactly, did you pull that number from? There are only a few hundred named species in SW. Moreover, factions in SW don't have very large armies. Beyond that, they certainly don't have enough super duper elite Havoc Squads running around so that they can dedicate thousands, if not hundreds of thousands to a single planet. But hey, not like this hurts my point even if they did do that.

 

It's been canonly stated that soldiers in KOTOR were trained to fight force users. In an era where there was a 30 year long war consisting of force users, I'm pretty sure soldiers would receive similar anti-force training.

[Liquidacid]

It's funny because so many people wanted to play Imperial/Rebel "grunts" in Star Wars Galaxies.

 

all infantry are called "grunts"... even special forces... but you were never in any way shape or form a standard generic one... you were always an exceptional or special one... if you weren't not only would it be extremely boring (military life is ALL hurry up and wait) but when the action started odds are you wouldn't live long enough to enjoy being one cause the first "Hero/Villain" that came along would squash you like a bug along with 1000 of your buddies

[ColonelColt]

all infantry are called "grunts"... even special forces... but you were never in any way shape or form a standard generic one... you were always an exceptional or special one... if you weren't not only would it be extremely boring (military life is ALL hurry up and wait) but when the action started odds are you wouldn't live long enough to enjoy being one cause the first "Hero/Villain" that came along would squash you like a bug along with 1000 of your buddies

 

In SWG NOBODY was special. It was a freeroam sandbox game. The quests were very plain and generic and in no way made you anything special. So in SWG people weren't even special forces, they were just entirely generic. And surprise surprise, everyone loved it.

[Liquidacid]

 

 

Where, exactly, did you pull that number from? There are only a few hundred named species in SW. Moreover, factions in SW don't have very large armies. Beyond that, they certainly don't have enough super duper elite Havoc Squads running around so that they can dedicate thousands, if not hundreds of thousands to a single planet. But hey, not like this hurts my point even if they did do that.

 

It's been canonly stated that soldiers in KOTOR were trained to fight force users. In an era where there was a 30 year long war consisting of force users, I'm pretty sure soldiers would receive similar anti-force training.

 

"There were over 20 million sentient species known to the galaxy"

 

sorry i was off there are over 20 million

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Species

 

 

and

 

"There were approximately 400 billion stars, and around 180 billion of these had planets that could support life. Ten percent of those planets developed life, while sentient life developed in 1/1,000 of those (about 20 million). Factoring in output of heat and light for advanced civilizations to form, there were 7.1 billion truly habitable stars, and 3.2 billion habitable star systems, with only 69 million systems meeting the requirements for Imperial representation, and 1.75 million planets considered full member worlds. In total, the galaxy was populated by approximately 100 quadrillion different life forms."

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_galaxy

 

keep in mind the Galactic Empire referenced there was around the same size as the the old republic

 

 

 

" factions in SW don't have very large armies"

 

this is not correct... until the Ruusan Reformation (1000 years BBY which is still around 3000 years after this games time) when the Jedi renounced all military ranks, dissolved their commander-in-chief, disbanded their army, naval and starfighter forces, and placed themselves under the supervision of the Supreme Chancellor and the Judicial Department, effectively dissolving the Military leaving only small armies in the power of planetary governments the Republic and the Jedi maintained a HUGE standing army and navy

 

 

In SWG NOBODY was special. It was a freeroam sandbox game. The quests were very plain and generic and in no way made you anything special. So in SWG people weren't even special forces, they were just entirely generic. And surprise surprise, everyone loved it.

 

again no.. you WERE special because there were thousands of NPCs which you could squash like bugs populating the world... you were not special when compared to other PLAYERS but you are not in this game either... average generic soldier does not wander around the galaxy doing whatever they want while racking up 1000s of kills...

Edited January 6, 2012 by Liquidacid