Selecting Need for your companion

[Eldren]

It's really simple to boil it down to this: if you assisted in downing a boss, you have a right to stake a claim to any gear the boss drops. You aren't guaranteed to get it, but you're guaranteed to have a chance of getting it, a chance equal to everyone else who stakes an equal claim.

 

The issue arises on the assumption of a social contract which some feel is implicit, and others don't. I feel it isn't implicit. I don't subscribe to any rules set I don't explicitly agree to.

 

What any player does with gear they acquire is up to them, and isn't contingent on any other player's approval. It doesn't matter if a particular player feels companions who weren't there don't deserve an equal shot at gear. Those companions are part of their main player, and since that main player gets an equal shot at gear they feel they need, companions can benefit.

 

The "bad player" in this case isn't the one rolling Need on gear they intend to equip on their companion, it's the one rolling Need on a piece of gear that requires an alignment and/or class that they can't meet. At that point, they're literally being greedy, because they can do nothing with that item save vendor it. But if their companion can legitimately use it, it's a legitimate upgrade for them as a player.

 

I'll typically ask to be polite, but understand that if I really feel it's a necessary upgrade, I'm going to roll Need on it. I don't, nor does any other player, require the approval or permission of the others in a group. The priority other players place on their companions in no way affects, nor should it, the priority I may place on my companion, whatever my reason.

[OSUNightfall]

Another problem is everyone trying to shove down other people's throats what they consider "acceptable".

 

Welcome to the idea of the social contract. Do you not tip in restaurants because you don't agree with it? Do you make jokes at funerals? Doing either of these things are your right, but everyone else isn't wrong for calling you out for bad behavior.

[Eldren]

Welcome to the idea of the social contract. Do you not tip in restaurants because you don't agree with it? Do you make jokes at funerals? Doing either of these things are your right, but everyone else isn't wrong for calling you out for bad behavior.

 

As a matter of fact I don't tip at a restaurant out of a sense of obligation. Because servers in my state have to make at least minimum wage despite receiving tips, they average $22 an hour after tips. Minimum wage here went up to $9.08 an hour this year, the highest state minimum wage in the U.S. If they want extra money, they'd best provide exemplary service. "Just average" or "normal"... they're already receiving their pay.

 

Social contract is only as binding as an individual allows it to be. You shouldn't assume that everyone accepts it, or at least every facet of it.

[Norbix]

As a matter of fact I don't tip at a restaurant out of a sense of obligation. Because servers in my state have to make at least minimum wage despite receiving tips, they average $22 an hour after tips. Minimum wage here went up to $9.08 an hour this year, the highest state minimum wage in the U.S. If they want extra money, they'd best provide exemplary service. "Just average" or "normal"... they're already receiving their pay.

 

Social contract is only as binding as an individual allows it to be. You shouldn't assume that everyone accepts it, or at least every facet of it.

 

Actually waiters legally don't get paid minimum wage. A friend of mine gets paid I think 3 dollars and hour because of tips.

[graywulfz]

Why do I get the feeling that you played a hunter in wow?....

[owenthorn]

Actually waiters legally don't get paid minimum wage. A friend of mine gets paid I think 3 dollars and hour because of tips.

 

 

 

not everywhere is the same, do remember there are 50 states, an azzload of counties, cities, towns, villages, municipalities etc... may have there own laws

[Esproc]

It's really simple to boil it down to this: if you assisted in downing a boss, you have a right to stake a claim to any gear the boss drops. You aren't guaranteed to get it, but you're guaranteed to have a chance of getting it, a chance equal to everyone else who stakes an equal claim.

 

The issue arises on the assumption of a social contract which some feel is implicit, and others don't. I feel it isn't implicit. I don't subscribe to any rules set I don't explicitly agree to.

 

What any player does with gear they acquire is up to them, and isn't contingent on any other player's approval. It doesn't matter if a particular player feels companions who weren't there don't deserve an equal shot at gear. Those companions are part of their main player, and since that main player gets an equal shot at gear they feel they need, companions can benefit.

 

The "bad player" in this case isn't the one rolling Need on gear they intend to equip on their companion, it's the one rolling Need on a piece of gear that requires an alignment and/or class that they can't meet. At that point, they're literally being greedy, because they can do nothing with that item save vendor it. But if their companion can legitimately use it, it's a legitimate upgrade for them as a player.

 

I'll typically ask to be polite, but understand that if I really feel it's a necessary upgrade, I'm going to roll Need on it. I don't, nor does any other player, require the approval or permission of the others in a group. The priority other players place on their companions in no way affects, nor should it, the priority I may place on my companion, whatever my reason.

 

 

So I can roll on all the items that you really really really need and have been trying to get for a week because I do have a companion that will be able to use (not NEED) it as an equipped item.

 

I don't believe that a companion should get any gear without asking first if its ok to do so and state that it's for my companion (as the other players have companions that use gear too).

 

But Just For YOU, I will make an exception and roll NEED on your items, for fun.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Esproc

[UserAdept]

The issue arises on the assumption of a social contract which some feel is implicit, and others don't. I feel it isn't implicit. I don't subscribe to any rules set I don't explicitly agree to.

 

really?

 

No one can force you to play the game how they envision you should, however, going against a common MMO tradition such as NBG will probably cause your chances at grouping to suffer.

 

I would drop group if someone clicked NEED for their companion (knowingly) when another party member could actually benefit from it and that person wasn't immediately booted. Granted, there are people new to MMOs playing this game, so they might not be aware, but if an explanation such as this were given.. yeah, gone.

 

Like someone said above, best thing to do is agree beforehand. Ohh, and they do have a button for companions.. greed.

[Krashh]

I ran into this the other day running through a flash point.

 

I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that.

I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot.

 

Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion?

 

I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions.

 

My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1.

 

This is the rule I've followed in another game. Need for current spec. Need for off spec, if someone hasn't needed for their current spec.

 

So, Need for your current spec/character. Need for companion gear if no one needs for their current spec.

 

As always, it's easy to ask in party chat if you can need for your companion. Maybe mention it at the start of a run.

[Nightfox_]

Need: For your main character upgrade

 

Greed: For everything else

 

You roll greed for a companion, I roll greed to sell it so I can equip my companion. They are the same thing, therefor you greed.

[SnoggyMack]

These threads never stop amusing me.

 

But they have now prompted me to take some action. It's going to be an experiment. On my healer, I'm going to start rolling need for my companion.

 

I want to see the server justice take effect. I want to see people exclude me from groups. Exclude ... my healer.

 

Somehow I don't see that happening, so I'm really curious as to how this experiment is going to go.

[Diskonekted]

I just don't understand how anyone can try and justify taking loot from another player so their companion can equip it. Like others have stated your companion did not participate in killing the boss so it doesn't have any right to the loot.

 

Honestly that's like me saying "Me and my GF play together all the time and she is my healer, so I should be able to log her in and take my spot in the group and roll for the loot" (I know you prolly need to be there for the kill to roll but you get the idea). I mean I get this is the interwebs and selfishness seem to know no bounds but there has to be some limit somewhere to what people will come up with.

[SingleCoilPickup]

Need: For your main character upgrade

 

Greed: For everything else

 

You roll greed for a companion, I roll greed to sell it so I can equip my companion. They are the same thing, therefor you greed.

 

And that's only your opinion and the opinion of some other players.

 

I 110% agree with Eldren. If I participated in the group and pulled my weight, I have the right to roll Need for something regardless of what my reason is. If you don't like it - tough. Go ahead, threaten for you, your whole guild, and your aunt sally to /ignore me. That's fine. You're all just a drop in the bucket of the server population anyway.

 

If you feel my role in the group isn't important enough to afford me the right to roll for what I feel I need, then that's fine. Next time group with someone who doesn't do everything in his power to keep the rest of his group alive, sacrifice himself for healers, and pull aggro off of lower level players every chance I get.

 

There's nothing in any terms of service that says I need to pick Greed for a companion, and just because you choose to live by a certain code of morals doesn't mean my moral code needs to be identical, nor do I need to ask the group permission to follow my own rules of conduct.

[Dirtybomb]

I'll typically ask to be polite, but understand that if I really feel it's a necessary upgrade, I'm going to roll Need on it. I don't, nor does any other player, require the approval or permission of the others in a group. The priority other players place on their companions in no way affects, nor should it, the priority I may place on my companion, whatever my reason.

 

Thankfully, you will start to build a reputation on your server as somebody who rolls for your companions against people that need the gear for their toons. After a while, some people will refuse to group with you, and yet others will run with you and roll need on everything you want just to be funny. Which it would be imo.

 

I really don't believe in karma, but it has an odd way of coming back around.

[SingleCoilPickup]

Thankfully, you will start to build a reputation on your server as somebody who rolls for your companions against people that need the gear for their toons. After a while, some people will refuse to group with you, and yet others will run with you and roll need on everything you want just to be funny. Which it would be imo.

 

I really don't believe in karma, but it has an odd way of coming back around.

 

You guys are really confused if you think "reputations" really exist in any meaningful way in an MMO.

 

You're also really confused if you think people like us will care if you "join our group just to roll need on everything." That's fine, bro, because I'll also roll need and have an equal chance of getting the same item. If I don't get it, I'm reasonably confident I'll live. If I really want it still, it's a really good thing I can just run the quest again, now isn't it?

[Karast]

To me it rates on the same level as a sentinel taking a chest piece from a smuggler because he wants the mod look, or a sage rolling on a blaster rifle to take the + surge enhancement out of it for their gear. Your pet may use that item 90% of the time, but that player is going to use it 100% of the time. There are plenty of other ways to gear up a pet, and there are typically always going to be items that no ones main characters need that you can greed on for pets.

 

But when you pug an instance and everyone is rolling need on everything do what you want. I do not really care about gearing my pets, so I only roll on what I use on my main character.

[Spynnal]

And that's only your opinion and the opinion of some other players.

 

I 110% agree with Eldren. If I participated in the group and pulled my weight, I have the right to roll Need for something regardless of what my reason is. If you don't like it - tough. Go ahead, threaten for you, your whole guild, and your aunt sally to /ignore me. That's fine. You're all just a drop in the bucket of the server population anyway.

 

If you feel my role in the group isn't important enough to afford me the right to roll for what I feel I need, then that's fine. Next time group with someone who doesn't do everything in his power to keep the rest of his group alive, sacrifice himself for healers, and pull aggro off of lower level players every chance I get.

 

There's nothing in any terms of service that says I need to pick Greed for a companion, and just because you choose to live by a certain code of morals doesn't mean my moral code needs to be identical, nor do I need to ask the group permission to follow my own rules of conduct.

 

You are correct. You are allowed to roll. But it just remains shortsighted. Every time you roll for your companion, someone in your group will follow suit. When it's the norm, and everyone decides that all 5 of their companions need everything, it just makes acquiring what you want in the future that much more difficult to get.

 

Do I care? No, I run with RL friends or guildmates, who understand humans > NPC's, so I won;t have that problem.

 

I've seen bad strings of RNG in other games. May your die rolls haunt you, and may your attitude bite you in the ***, and make getting what you want 10x the effort.

[SingleCoilPickup]

To me it rates on the same level as a sentinel taking a chest piece from a smuggler because he wants the mod look, or a sage rolling on a blaster rifle to take the + surge enhancement out of it for their gear. Your pet may use that item 90% of the time, but that player is going to use it 100% of the time. There are plenty of other ways to gear up a pet, and there are typically always going to be items that no ones main characters need that you can greed on for pets.

 

But when you pug an instance and everyone is rolling need on everything do what you want. I do not really care about gearing my pets, so I only roll on what I use on my main character.

 

But your group mates don't OWE you anything. They don't OWE you the only roll on the loot because you say you need it. This crazy sense of entitlement that you guys think people should just fall on the proverbial sword as far as loot goes is flipping crazy.

 

Again, if I'm in that group with you, I did just as much work as you did, if not more. That means I have equal rights to the loot. It's of no consequence what my purpose for the loot is, and it's not like I can steal it from you like you guys are acting like. You have an equal chance of getting it if you roll need. I have no obligation to roll over and give you the only roll on the loot just because in your head your needs are more important than mine.

[Dirtybomb]

You're also really confused if you think people like us will care if you "join our group just to roll need on everything." That's fine, bro, because I'll also roll need and have an equal chance of getting the same item. If I don't get it, I'm reasonably confident I'll live. If I really want it still, it's a really good thing I can just run the quest again, now isn't it?

 

Not confused and I've been pretty convinced for a while that people like you don't care about much of anything other than yourselves. I stopped running with pugs a years ago and have been laughing ever since about how the pug community complains about the horrible conditions that they've created for themselves.

 

Knock yourselves out and enjoy the game any way you want. The silly self-centered s**t that you do won't ever affect me. If I wasn't bored at work, I wouldn't even be taking the time to post. And I'm not your bro pal

[monjiay]

Just stop it!

 

You'll have multiple companions soon and using your logic you can NEED on practically everything because one or more of your companions needs it.

 

You are using that new definition of 'need' that basically says "I need everything that drops because if I can't use it, I can sell it."

 

If that is your definition of need then why even have a GREED option?

 

The ultimate solution is to discus this with the group.

 

There are no name changes. There are no server transfers. Not only are you developing your character, you are also acquiring a reputation. I would caution that reputation is important. Don't lose 'affection' of your fellow players or be ready to suffer the consequences.

 

I'm just giving the OP a heads up. Play the game as you like, but don't come back here complaing you can't get groups because you are on everyone's ignore list.

[BobaFetaCheese]

I don't see the reason to roll need as long as there is someone in the group that could actually use it. If there is nobody in the group that can use it, or you know the person already has the piece, then sure, I'd roll need for it.

 

Gear grows on trees. There is no reason to rush to need for companion gear. Companion gear is important, sure, but why take it away from other actual players? Doesn't that seem a little greedy? This is a MMO, and the stronger your teammates are, the better you'll do. Your companions get sent away as soon as the party is full. Decking them out in purples don't help group missions.

[Kourage]

I'm selecting Need for my real life companion, who was not in the group, but out drinking a beer at the local tavern. He contributed just as much as those companions on your starship.

[Fonitrus]

These threads never stop amusing me.

 

But they have now prompted me to take some action. It's going to be an experiment. On my healer, I'm going to start rolling need for my companion.

 

I want to see the server justice take effect. I want to see people exclude me from groups. Exclude ... my healer.

 

Somehow I don't see that happening, so I'm really curious as to how this experiment is going to go.

 

if this catches on It will eventually, after many many forum QQ tears have been spilt, itwill lead to a WoW mechanic stopping you from rollin need on anything you cant use. so say anything with Endurance + Cunning will benefit IA/Scoundrels most and will be triggered as IA/Coundrel Gear so you wont be allowed to roll Need on it.

 

People should level their companions gear from the GTN and support the struggling crafters. if your gear comes from FPs and quests then if you bought say 2 pieces of gear from crafters PER companion tahts 10 pieces of gear that move on the market.

 

SUPPORT THE CRAFTERS please thing of their children.

[SingleCoilPickup]

Not confused and I've been pretty convinced for a while that people like you don't care about much of anything other than yourselves. I stopped running with pugs a years ago and have been laughing ever since about how the pug community complains about the horrible conditions that they've created for themselves.

 

Knock yourselves out and enjoy the game any way you want. The silly self-centered s**t that you do won't ever affect me. If I wasn't bored at work, I wouldn't even be taking the time to post. And I'm not your bro pal

 

So entertain these questions.. If I "didn't care about anything other than myself" why would I do any of the following:

 

1. Pull aggro from a low level player that's barely even helping the group get through the flash point?

2. Sacrifice myself for the healer in a battle when I'm pretty sure we could finish with him dead?

3. Pass on items I could use so that other people in the group have a better chance at getting something, especially if I've already gotten something I want from the flashpoint.

 

I do all of those things on a regular basis. I'm not selfish and inconsiderate, I just perceive my needs differently than you do, and you're not the supreme judge of video game righteousness. As far as I'm concerned, if I want something to put on my companion, it's no different than wanting a weapon for myself. It's a need I have and feel the need to fulfill. I'm not just blindly clicking Need everytime I see it, and I'm not going to click Need unless it's something I truly believe that I need. And I have every right to do that.

[WrecklessMEDIC]

Personally I won't ever roll Need on something for my companion. In my mind it's like constantly rolling Need on off-spec gear in WoW. Sure you can use it, but you don't really "need" it.

 

Even though there are a lot of people rolling Need on companion gear right now, I think eventually it will become an unwritten rule to only roll Greed on those items. We'll see though. It's still early in the game's lifespan.