Nerf Operatives - Im in full pvp gear getting 3 shot

[Leekae]

So let's get this straight, some of the operatives here are saying "just use your trinket". What happens when your trinket is on CD? You die laying there.

 

What happens when you DO use your trinket? Ok, so you're at half health (or less) from the opening move. Great. I suppose the operatives here think they are twice as bad out of stealth than all other classes right? That's what it would take to be equal and balanced.

 

I almost forgot, they will just cc you again, almost immediately. There's no trinket going to save you against this class, you're going to die no matter how well you play.

 

Before someone quotes me, let me just say that to tell me to learn how to play or learn your class is beyond comical.

 

That opening move, as well as the sickly short cd on their cc afterwards will leave even the best players dead on the floor or standing there looking foolish. Period. Don't even try to defend it.

[Countryfiedjedi]

Whatever, the nerfs are coming.

 

That's all you got?

 

Everyone knows your class is redic. Even you know it is at some level. You are here to lobby against the inevitable.

 

Here's what I know... The amount of DPS we get from buff stacking and expertise is out of line.

 

I am here to hopefully speed up the process. Any reasonable person who is truly interested in overall PvP balance should be able to see this fairly plainly.

 

I AM HERE to make sure that any nerfs happen systematically. Nerf the buffs and implement brackets FIRST. If we are still out of line... then nerf us. But none of the "victims" here appear to be reasonable. They want the nerf bat, and they want Barry Bonds swinging it.

 

The rest of your rant isn't worth responding to.

[Dragongit]

I'm a Jedi Sentenel Watchmen spec. I just watched myself get stunned by an invisable operative, and 3 shotted before I could even break the stun. They are pretty OP and I don't care what you say about skills, being stunned and 3 shotted before you can even blink isn't being a bad player, it's being steamrolled by mechanics.

[Selout]

I will be waiting for you to show a quote from me talking about scoundrel heals.

 

If I have to explain it to you, forget it... not worth the time explaining it to you.

[BobaFurz]

Well what happens if the op/sc has no CD´up to vanish again into stealth, he will be dead of course if other players are around, most of them ranged classes.

[HOWDOUKITE]

when a operative popped everything fully geared can crit a BH in heavy armor for 8k's back to back if thats not op then we might as well play WoW and do ambush backstab to 2 shot people pre lvl 85 cuz this is same thing

[Dahalag]

If I have to explain it to you, forget it... not worth the time explaining it to you.

 

Hahahaha thought so.

[Hamstaxo]

normal operatives do no dmg on my trooper with 400 exp

they only hit for about 2k crits which is ok

but stims and surge trinkets push the dmg far beyond balanced.

don't nerf op's/scrappers. just nerf thescaling of critscaling

[Locustone]

Agreed, these guys hit way to hard. I have 18k life on my Imortal Jugg with 4 pvp pieces and I still got thrashed. I was stunned, immediatly used my stun break, choked him, ravage, he stunned me again, at this point I'm just watching my life drop fast, when it broke out, i had 25% life left he was at 65ish, i pop all my defense cooldowns and I still died.

 

When I managed to catch him almost dead he simply vanished and came back full life. They really need longer cooldowns on vanish too.

[Selout]

Hahahaha thought so.

 

I don't think you think at all is my point. Anyways, keep on not contributing to the thread.

[Countryfiedjedi]

I'm a Jedi Sentenel Watchmen spec. I just watched myself get stunned by an invisable operative, and 3 shotted before I could even break the stun. They are pretty OP and I don't care what you say about skills, being stunned and 3 shotted before you can even blink isn't being a bad player, it's being steamrolled by mechanics.

 

Another spew of misinformation. Not possible to be 3 shot FROM FULL HEALTH in a warzone before CC breaks. NOT POSSIBLE! GCD/Resolve prevents it.

 

You were either already hurt, extremely low level vs a 50, slow to react, took some hits from a 3rd party, or any mixture of the above.

[BobaFurz]

normal operatives do no dmg on my trooper with 400 exp

they only hit for about 2k crits which is ok

but stims and surge trinkets push the dmg far beyond balanced.

don't nerf op's/scrappers. just nerf thescaling of critscaling

 

For how much do you crit on them with your trooper ?

[cloudxshadowbane]

Another spew of misinformation. Not possible to be 3 shot FROM FULL HEALTH in a warzone before CC breaks. NOT POSSIBLE! GCD/Resolve prevents it.

 

You were either already hurt, extremely low level vs a 50, slow to react, took some hits from a 3rd party, or any mixture of the above.

 

 

Incorrect. Resolve is a crap system to begin with, and CC break does not pull you off the ground. Incorrect about the GCDs as well

[Locustone]

when a operative popped everything fully geared can crit a BH in heavy armor for 8k's back to back if thats not op then we might as well play WoW and do ambush backstab to 2 shot people pre lvl 85 cuz this is same thing

 

Lol, I remember doing this on my rogue when lvl 60 was the cap and it was pre-honor system. Cold blood, ambush backstab, dead. People really didn't have a chance regardless of skill. there is no way to survive being 2 shotted. I have to admit being on the giving side was much funner. I can see why operative are defending against a nerf, who doesn't want to play sill free and still two shot people.

 

One of our guildies initially was going to be a healer, but when he realized how much damage an operative put out he stopped healing. He says the damage burst is insane and the survivability is equally insane. He is now facerolling people in Warzones and laughing his *** off.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Locustone

[Sevvy]

Another spew of misinformation. Not possible to be 3 shot FROM FULL HEALTH in a warzone before CC breaks. NOT POSSIBLE! GCD/Resolve prevents it.

 

You were either already hurt, extremely low level vs a 50, slow to react, took some hits from a 3rd party, or any mixture of the above.

 

I've done it to a 50 Sage with the Expertise WZ buff, my Champ relic, and a surge adrenal.

 

And I've been 4 shotted by my guildmate Merc who did the same thing. NERF EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING AHHHH!!!

[Dragongit]

Oh, and that argument about a paper tiger, my aunt fanny.

 

With that sort of name a single hit should take out an operative. Well, when that mechanic kicks in let me know, because all I saw was a guy stun locking me, and takeing less then 3 seconds to kill me. What defenses do I have against that? how do I counter a guy who can kill me in less then a few seconds? You describe to me in full detail, every classes defense against it, and I will call off my desire for it's nerf.

[Hamstaxo]

For how much do you crit on them with your trooper ?

 

i'm a healer and the highest crit i get is 2,5k with charged shot on a lvl10 with luck

i got 16k life and 400exp. its just like dying between 2 frames. the class is not broken. its the statsystem which is

[MrGif]

Initially I thought this was way over powered too, (I play as a BH Merc). Orginally when I was playing Arsenal if I got jumped I'd be done. No question about it.

 

Since I've switched to Pyrotech though, my rate of death from OP/SC have diminished substantially, and I find I'm not dying nearly as often from them.

 

Lots of back and forth here to be said, their nerf doesnt need to be to their play style by potentially to the type of toons they can burst down. They should be able to burst down Medium or Lower Armour toons, and pick off those DPS characters. But never every tanks. Also only issue I really have is their ability to do a combo like that, cloak, and perform it again shortly after. Maybe a bit longer Cooldowns on some of their abilities, but I dont know what they are I dont play them.

 

I dont care so much 1v1 if I get caught I die, it sucks, but guess what if I catch them out of cloak or walking by me I detect them, and get a DoT on them, they're as good as dead. I care that 1v2 he can take me out, cloak, and do it to my buddy too (depending on who my buddy is).

 

It's hard to say definitively right now if a class is OP since we dont have a 50 only bracket yet, but once we do, I can see it leveling out a bit, and less people shouting on high about nerfs.

[Lina_Inverse]

. Just trinket the initial stun and get away.

 

This argument never ceases to amaze me. Shoot first/hidden strike has 0 cooldown. Talened cloaking screen has an identical cooldown with all CC breaks. If they really want to cheese you all they have to do is vanish every time their enemy uses a CC break. Or you know, they could just ignore the fact you're not stunned and just shoot first/hidden strike twice and gib you. The knockdown is a problem but only when added to the real problem is the 0 setup damage for 50% of most players' hp bar. No way to see it coming, no way to run cd's to counter it, no way to re actively counter it.

 

You start out too far behind to really do anything about it half the time anyway even assuming your 2m cd is up to break the kd. It's not like operatives are helpless out of stealth either. They still hit pretty hard with out of stealth abilities, have snares and roots that ignore resolve, and also have decent (2k+ crits) on 30 yard ranged abilties to finish you off. They've even got some defensive skills to hold up toe to toe for a short while! Sure they're weaker after the opener and a nerf to their opener should likely result in a slight shift in damage, no one should argue that. However, most of them time your teammates can't even react in time to a double hidden strike(which is up every time your cc break is up).

 

For those that like to use the group argument. You have 1.5s to target an untargetable(because he just cloaked) enemy and try to peel him or heal 50% of your buddies hp. Good luck.

 

All these defenders of the damage on hidden strike probably haven't seen it geared, or are turning an extremely blind eye to how cheese it is, or are just really really hoping that the "only" good thing about operatives doesn't get nerfed without any other buffs (which isn't likely to happen).

Edited January 6, 2012 by Lina_Inverse

[Rexell]

What happens when you DO use your trinket? Ok, so you're at half health (or less) from the opening move. Great. I suppose the operatives here think they are twice as bad out of stealth than all other classes right? That's what it would take to be equal and balanced..

 

Opening move doesn't do 1/2 health by itself.. even on a crit. I'm in decent gear for lvl 50 and have over 15k health unbuffed. Opening hit isn't doing 8k without massive buffs, stims, relics, etc. Or they have a ton of expertise and you have none.. in which case, sorry get some pvp gear.

 

I almost forgot, they will just cc you again, almost immediately. There's no trinket going to save you against this class, you're going to die no matter how well you play.

 

You can't be CC'd again. You are immune to CC after the initial knockdown.

 

Before someone quotes me, let me just say that to tell me to learn how to play or learn your class is beyond comical.

 

I don't think I need to repeat what you already said.

That opening move, as well as the sickly short cd on their cc afterwards will leave even the best players dead on the floor or standing there looking foolish. Period. Don't even try to defend it.

Which CC afterwards is on a sickly short CD?... especially the one you aren't immune to after the initial attack? why aren't you using your CC on them after you stand up? What level are you? What level are they? What gear do each of you have? What buffs do each of you have? Are you using your tradeskill items? Stimpacks?

[Countryfiedjedi]

Agreed, these guys hit way to hard. I have 18k life on my Imortal Jugg with 4 pvp pieces and I still got thrashed. I was stunned, immediatly used my stun break, choked him, ravage, he stunned me again, at this point I'm just watching my life drop fast, when it broke out, i had 25% life left he was at 65ish, i pop all my defense cooldowns and I still died.

 

When I managed to catch him almost dead he simply vanished and came back full life. They really need longer cooldowns on vanish too.

 

This just smells fishy. We'll assume that no other 3rd parties were involved in anyway...

 

You say you were stunned, and not knocked down. That tells me that Hidden Strike was not used. Therefore, the best the Op could have done was blind you (which you broke) backstab with acid blade, and then an Evis. 2 attacks that crit hard... but not near as hard as Hidden Strike. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that he managed to do ~6.5K damage (which is above avg for those 2 attacks if they both crit with no expertise/stim stacking).

 

Then you choked him. And you did what? Ravage? Does Ravage break choke like our Flash Bang? If so, why didn't you use a health stim 1st while the Op was dangling in the air, then Ravage? Or... just get some distance if you felt disadvantaged?

 

Ok... then he stuns you back... which has to be debilitate. This gives him a few more seconds to do another BS/Evis, maybe another Evis if it procs. BTW, you should have saved your CC break for this rather than use it on Flash Bang... since Flash Bang automatically breaks with dmg. So lets assume your were REALLY unlucky and he crit everytime he hit you... which is astronomically unlucky. You now down to about 2.5K health...

 

Had you healed during your choke, you still would have been in a good situation to deal with him EVEN if he crit you everytime! Because now he's blown his wad, and the rest of his attacks will do 300 to 600 dmg, while you hit for 1.5K - 2K.

 

It would have been close at least.

 

Most people see their health drop fast, and expect it to be over, and just roll over at that point. They are so intimidated by 50% drop in HP's, they just give up, then come here and cry.

[Sevvy]

Hidden Strike = full resolve bar

 

Just a reminder!

Edited January 6, 2012 by Sevvy

[Leekae]

Opening move doesn't do 1/2 health by itself.. even on a crit. I'm in decent gear for lvl 50 and have over 15k health unbuffed. Opening hit isn't doing 8k without massive buffs, stims, relics, etc. Or they have a ton of expertise and you have none.. in which case, sorry get some pvp gear.

 

 

 

You can't be CC'd again. You are immune to CC after the initial knockdown.

 

 

 

I don't think I need to repeat what you already said.

 

Which CC afterwards is on a sickly short CD?... especially the one you aren't immune to after the initial attack? why aren't you using your CC on them after you stand up? What level are you? What level are they? What gear do each of you have? What buffs do each of you have? Are you using your tradeskill items? Stimpacks?

 

I don't know why you took the time to multi-quote me. What I said is correct.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Leekae

[Sevvy]

I don't know why you took the time to multi-quote me. What I said is correct.

 

If someone can point out to me where ANYONE has cc IMMUNITY at any point in this game, I'd like to know about it.

 

After we Hidden Strike you, we can't stun you again until your resolve bar is gone. If you can't kill use or force us to run away by then, you're dead.

[Countryfiedjedi]

Incorrect. Resolve is a crap system to begin with, and CC break does not pull you off the ground. Incorrect about the GCDs as well

 

The resolve system is crap... nerf Ops?

 

I'm not incorrect about the GCD's. It is 1.5s. It takes 3s to activate 2 abilities, 4.5 to activate 3, etc...

 

And CC break does break the knockdown... I watch it happen to me all the time.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Countryfiedjedi