The game isn't the problem

[darthdoll]

Implying you doing a ICC run makes you experienced.

 

I am not replying because I've already answered your stupid comments in my other posts. Go back and read them, learn something.

 

Do you know what the word completed means? By chance?

 

I have COMPLETED ICC.

 

The fact is you need crutches (addons) to play because you are bad at endgame.

[GalacticKegger]

Yes it is, for obvious reasons.

 

And if this game isnt focusing on end game, it WILL die.

BW has come out and stated they modeled TOR's gameplay after seeing how the industry leaders did it. They didn't say they were modeling gameplay after how the industry leaders did it. BW already stated they intend to add some mod functionality to the game. They just won't allow 3rd party hacks to butcher their product.

 

Dev is already focusing on end game. SWTOR right now has more end game than WoW did 6 months into release. A combat log will come but a DBM-style cheat won't - thank goodness.

Edited January 5, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[zolthie]

While you are guessing these things I'm going ahead and asking my partymembers what basic rotation they are using, is the sith marauder making sure his rage is low instead of spamming basic attack with max rage, checking does the tank actually have tanking stance on and asking him what abilities he's mostly using.

 

 

Sorry for "trollish" response but.. people make these things appear HUGE just because they got used in WoW that unless everyone does exactly top performance you can't down a boss before it's on farm. I don't know how tough hardmodes are, nor operations, but what if.. just what if they are designed so that slightly "slack" doesn't instantly mean fail? Would we need damage/threatmeters then?

 

If there are no "recount" why would you even care if your rotation (which you can figure out without tons of theorycrafting) is only 95% of what it could be damagewise (besides spamming the parse in /gu or /p to show your e-superiority)

 

But even more importantly.. are these tools necessary yet? could use some insight from people who have done HM's alot. Are the operations and HM's doable without tons of theorycrafting?

 

Combat log parsers will be implemented once combat log is implemented. Damagemeters will probably be implemented later on too. But they are not top priority, bug fixes and other features are atm. Take a chillpill and enjoy the game.

 

Which features others than those listed would be a priority?

 

As I said, your party members could use a rotation that they think is good, or that works for them. Fine, it works for them, it is most likely worse than other rotations that they don't know about until damage meter, combat log and stuff comes. That says nothing really.

 

The operations and hardmodes are doable without theorycrafting because gearing in champion gear is super easy and the hardmodes aren't hard at all.

[ToraZalinto]

Way back in the thread people mentioned "how am I supposed to know how much threat I have?" and I thought back to FFXI. Before Kaeko reverse engineered the enmity system (a monstrous feat) people just had a "feel" for how much hate (threat) something was worth. Provoke obviously dished out a chunk and cures gave a fairly steady amount as well, etc. And people played the game this way for a long time. Even after the enmity table was released by Kaeko it only let us know how much hate an action caused. And that's it.

[zolthie]

BW has come out and stated they modeled TOR's gameplay after seeing how the industry leaders did it. They didn't say they were modeling gameplay after how the industry leaders did it. Dev has stated they intend to add some mod functionality to the game. They just won't allow 3rd party hacks to butcher their product.

 

Dev is already focusing on end game. SWTOR right now has more end game than WoW did 6 months into release. A combat log will come but a DBM-style cheat won't - thank goodness. To borrow from another post: just curious how many would stand in the street staring down an oncoming garbage truck because they didn't have DBM telling them to get out of the way.

 

Again, you are comparing WoW, released in 04' with SWTOR, released a week before 2012, right?

 

Stupid, very stupid.

[Kemosobe]

Don't look at it as "How does this compare to WoW", think of it as, "How good is the game I'm playing right now?"

 

I have been telling people this for years. Well, not the WoW-SWTOR thing, just that people need to stop comparing games and saying they are crap or need certain implementations simply because it is in their favorite game. Each game is built the way the developer wants it to be. If you do not like it, do not play it. There is no reason for the developers to bow down to anyone simply because they want something that they are used to.

 

Put it this way, if you do not like a single player game, do you whine and complain to the developer for months until they patch it to make it the way YOU want? Or do you just stop playing it and move on to your next game?

[Celestry]

Let me ask a question. You are DPS. You are wacking away at some boss. You have a threat meter. It shows you are getting close to overtaking tank on threat table. What happens next?

 

a) You keep doing what you are doing, pull aggro and die

b) the addon takes controls and adjusts your gameplay so that you don't pull aggro

c) You consciously process that information and adjust your DPS or use a threat wipe/reduction

 

I'll give you a hint. It isn't B. Addons don't play the game for you. You must still have situational awareness, think, and act.

 

Situational awareness could just simply mean you notice you are getting hit. Seems like that is a fairly good indication you have some aggro. Does basically the same thing an addon would do, but it means you will take some damage at times. I think it simply means BW wanted to design a system where everyone has the chance of actually getting hit once in awhile. Not a totally tank and spank system where the tank gets all the aggro, and everyone else that is hitting the NPC never has to worry about getting hit. I also do not think BW has the same type of aggro system as other games. It seems much more difficult to hold aggro in general in this game. Either dps draws aggro more quickly, or the NPCs random rotate aggro regardless of held aggro to a degree.

 

As for what you said in b... the add-on takes control and ajusts your game, well that sounds like the addon is playing the game for you. I think you ment C, meaning the add on says you are getting too much aggro and then you ajust your game. I know it upsets people, and if you like addons etc, I really have little issue with it. BW has made a decision to not allow them at this point, and complaining about it does little it is their game. Kinda related, I wonder how much of limiting addons, meters, etc has to do with limiting the ability of people to alter and change the game in an effort to avoid things like bots? When I have played modable games, those have always been the games infested with bots. I have not seen a bot here to my knowledge.

[spicycookie]

The funny thing is... where do you think all these things you listed below came from?

 

In the end everyone is spoiled by that other game not be mentioned.

 

It's obvious the list below is from that other game... with the exception of combat logs because every MMO has combat logs, not sure why they didn't include that. Server instability possibly?

 

The other game didn't have a threatmeter either when it first came out or any other things... hard to compare since people will say that this dynamic has been out for years... why not include it...

 

It's hard to say... but maybe they just want to roll things out slowly to keep you paying

 

No, the developers are the problem.

 

No target of target

No threat system

No threat meter

No damage meter

No macros

No combat logs

 

We are not spoiled if we would have these, these are a few of the ingredients to creating a successful MMO.

 

These things among others are a necessity.

 

Without key things being in a MMO, launched in 2011 with 6+ years of work put into it, why would people fund it? Makes no sense.

Edited January 5, 2012 by spicycookie

[Andryah]

No, the developers are the problem.

 

No target of target

No threat system

No threat meter

No damage meter

No macros

No combat logs

 

Nice to have? sure.

 

Necessity? no, not really. you are just spoiled is all.

 

We are not spoiled if we would have these, these are a few of the ingredients to creating a successful MMO.

 

lmao. yeah, spoiled rotten, IMO. This MMO IS successful without these. The failure lies with the player who cannot cope without them, IMO.

 

Without key things being in a MMO, launched in 2011 with 6+ years of work put into it, why would people fund it? Makes no sense.

 

Subscription to this game is by your choice. If these are game breaking issues for you then maybe unsubscribe and go play a game that meets your needs. That other game is thata way ------------->

 

And people wonder why some thread posts earn a "go back to that other game" stamp on them.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Andryah

[TheHauntingBard]

I have been telling people this for years. Well, not the WoW-SWTOR thing, just that people need to stop comparing games and saying they are crap or need certain implementations simply because it is in their favorite game. Each game is built the way the developer wants it to be. If you do not like it, do not play it. There is no reason for the developers to bow down to anyone simply because they want something that they are used to.

 

Put it this way, if you do not like a single player game, do you whine and complain to the developer for months until they patch it to make it the way YOU want? Or do you just stop playing it and move on to your next game?

 

 

A lot of single player games allow modding.

Look at the Sims, so many mods for that game that fix the gamebreaking bugs the devs didn't bother fixing.

Skyrim/Oblivion , we can also go back a bit doom 2 had a lot of mods as well.

 

Bioware messed up a lot of things and so did BLizzard.

In fact add ons fixed a lot of mess for WOW and are a part of the reason why that game became popular.

SWTOR well no add ons and lot's of mistakes.

[Perfik]

No, the developers are the problem.

 

No target of target

No threat system

No threat meter

No damage meter

No macros

No combat logs

 

We are not spoiled if we would have these, these are a few of the ingredients to creating a successful MMO.

 

These things among others are a necessity.

 

Without key things being in a MMO, launched in 2011 with 6+ years of work put into it, why would people fund it? Makes no sense.

 

all this you posted are "features" that you get used to see + a lie

there is threat system

 

the rest are not either gamebreaking bugs or musthavetogame features. You can play without them but since another game gave you some addons so you can slack more effectively doesnt' means that those "features" are a MUST have in a MMO.

 

PANDAS this way>>>>>>>

[Lyvean_gr]

I have been telling people this for years. Well, not the WoW-SWTOR thing, just that people need to stop comparing games and saying they are crap or need certain implementations simply because it is in their favorite game. Each game is built the way the developer wants it to be. If you do not like it, do not play it. There is no reason for the developers to bow down to anyone simply because they want something that they are used to.

 

People must compare in order to choose, it's human.

 

And developers should do better to listen to the community instead of their own misplaced pride.

[Wolfbad]

Try end game, try pvp, then come back and say that.

 

You just come from Rift, kid? Real men can PvP without macros, and target of target isn't as big of a deal as you make it out to be. You want to know who his target is? It's probably the guy he's throwing stuff at.

[spicycookie]

But Why are addons such a necessity? I barely use addons in the other game just fine... this is the problem because we are all pampered to the point that we can't proceed without something.

 

Can you imagine if one day the world shut down the internet? What would happen? People jumping off bridges, rise in crime. Society is becoming too dependent on crutches. Convenience yes but necessity? Only necessity is a stable game.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by zolthie

I am 50, done ops, done hardmode, done nightmare.

 

They are all stupid and addons are needed.

 

This is the last respone to you, cba clueless people.

[Kemosobe]

A lot of single player games allow modding.

Look at the Sims, so many mods for that game that fix the gamebreaking bugs the devs didn't bother fixing.

Skyrim/Oblivion , we can also go back a bit doom 2 had a lot of mods as well.

 

Bioware messed up a lot of things and so did BLizzard.

In fact add ons fixed a lot of mess for WOW and are a part of the reason why that game became popular.

SWTOR well no add ons and lot's of mistakes.

 

I see no mistakes at all. And seeing as I went years playing WoW without a single add-on, I saw no mistakes there either. Maby you should just play the game the way the developer intened rather than whining they change it because you want them to change it. If all you people are so against allowing a developer to do things the way they want, why don't you go become the COE of EA or Activision or whoever so you can instruct all the developers uner your publishing brand to make the game how YOU want it to be made?

[PjPablo]

Situational awareness could just simply mean you notice you are getting hit. Seems like that is a fairly good indication you have some aggro. Does basically the same thing an addon would do, but it means you will take some damage at times. I think it simply means BW wanted to design a system where everyone has the chance of actually getting hit once in awhile. Not a totally tank and spank system where the tank gets all the aggro, and everyone else that is hitting the NPC never has to worry about getting hit. I also do not think BW has the same type of aggro system as other games. It seems much more difficult to hold aggro in general in this game. Either dps draws aggro more quickly, or the NPCs random rotate aggro regardless of held aggro to a degree.

 

As for what you said in b... the add-on takes control and ajusts your game, well that sounds like the addon is playing the game for you. I think you ment C, meaning the add on says you are getting too much aggro and then you ajust your game. I know it upsets people, and if you like addons etc, I really have little issue with it. BW has made a decision to not allow them at this point, and complaining about it does little it is their game. Kinda related, I wonder how much of limiting addons, meters, etc has to do with limiting the ability of people to alter and change the game in an effort to avoid things like bots? When I have played modable games, those have always been the games infested with bots. I have not seen a bot here to my knowledge.

 

Thank you for your feedback. I did mean B in the example. I was just saying B wouldn't happen since addons aren't going to play for you.

 

To your point if BW is designing endgame encounters such that a DPS won't be 2 shot when pulling aggro, then yes you are right, threat meters wouldn't be as important.

 

Nice to see rationale reply even when there isn't necessarily agreement.

[Cranberries]

You just come from Rift, kid? Real men can PvP without macros, and target of target isn't as big of a deal as you make it out to be. You want to know who his target is? It's probably the guy he's throwing stuff at.

 

WoW has the most successful PvP in any MMO, ever. It's the only one with high paying cash tournaments, after all.

[flunkorg]

i remember wow's combat being fun

 

Nostalgia tends to damage your memories.

[zolthie]

Basically, everyone against vital MMO things that should be implemented are telling people they are spoiled.

 

We're all spoiled in the western world, beds to sleep in, fresh water every morning. We should all go back to our roots, kind of how they are living in most parts of Africa today. We shouldn't have clean water, barely any food and we should all inject some serious viruses into your bodies, we're just spoiled to have what we have in the western world.

 

Braindead arguments that makes no sense. You can deny it if you want, but that doesnt change the fact that this game will not last very long if they don't implement these things that a MMO needs to survive today.

[lueckjathom]

Put it this way, if you do not like a single player game, do you whine and complain to the developer for months until they patch it to make it the way YOU want? Or do you just stop playing it and move on to your next game?

 

No, but single player games are not living communities, and MMO's do, in fact, change to meet the needs of the communities.

 

Hopefully, BW is focusing on fixing the glaring bugs they have right now. After that, we will begin to see the additions and changes that the community, or what BW perceives as the largest portion of its subscriber communty, want to have implemented.

 

It won't be next week's patch or probably next month's patch... but the changes will come. Look at Rift.. the game launched without addons. The forums were on fire with people who did and didn't want them, just like this game. It took a long time, but guess what Rift has now? Addons.

 

MMO's change. If there is a feature that a large majority of the community wants, it will happen sooner or later.

[darthdoll]

Basically, everyone against vital MMO things that should be implemented are telling people they are spoiled.

 

We're all spoiled in the western world, beds to sleep in, fresh water every morning. We should all go back to our roots, kind of how they are living in most parts of Africa today. We shouldn't have clean water, barely any food and we should all inject some serious viruses into your bodies, we're just spoiled to have what we have in the western world.

 

Braindead arguments that makes no sense. You can deny it if you want, but that doesnt change the fact that this game will not last very long if they don't implement these things that a MMO needs to survive today.

 

Mhm, Where have I heard "wont last very long" before?

 

WoW when it came out?

EQ when it came out?

 

Before those too?

 

See you in 7 years.

 

Pandas ------>

 

EDIT:

 

Your analogy is horrible btw.

Edited January 5, 2012 by darthdoll

[youwillburn]

This is such a stupid argument. Using this logic, everyone can be excuse for making inferior products because "when the competition first started, they were just as bad as this."

[Mrgorgun]

I am so sick and tired of the WoW comparison,granted this game aint the flawless out there or doesnt bring a genre breakin change to the table but cmon ffs..arent you tired of that 7 year old pos game already??? If you want wow,go play that game,why does it have to be star wars universe wow? which already is more than enough similar tbh...

[DLvegas]

I really don't understand the need for DPS meters and threat meters or whatever. Macros? Get a clue guys.

 

You may as well ask for a button which plays the game for you then notifies you when you get a loot drop. Thats how simple you make it by using so-called addons.

 

Take control and stop letting the game play you!

[Kemosobe]

No, but single player games are not living communities, and MMO's do, in fact, change to meet the needs of the communities.

 

Hopefully, BW is focusing on fixing the glaring bugs they have right now. After that, we will begin to see the additions and changes that the community, or what BW perceives as the largest portion of its subscriber communty, want to have implemented.

 

It won't be next week's patch or probably next month's patch... but the changes will come. Look at Rift.. the game launched without addons. The forums were on fire with people who did and didn't want them, just like this game. It took a long time, but guess what Rift has now? Addons.

 

MMO's change. If there is a feature that a large majority of the community wants, it will happen sooner or later.

 

I have no problem with add-ons. If people want to create/use add-ons that make the game play itself so they can smash their face against the keyboard and win, go ahead and use them. What I hate is how most people come onto the forums (not necissarily this thread) and just complain how Bioware needs to put straight into the game something they they want simply because they have no clue how to play the game without it.

 

EDIT: Also, I forgot to say in my previous post that Skyrim, Doom, Oblivion, and most other games that have mods and such are single player ONLY games. Having mods for you to personally use will not effect anyone else in anyway. When you start making/using add-ons in a multiplayer scenario is when shat starts hitting the fan and people start F'ing up other's experience.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Kemosobe