WickedDjinn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 No, the developers are the problem. No target of target No threat system No threat meter No damage meter No macros No combat logs We are not spoiled if we would have these, these are a few of the ingredients to creating a successful MMO. These things among others are a necessity. Without key things being in a MMO, launched in 2011 with 6+ years of work put into it, why would people fund it? Makes no sense. We don't need any of those things. Some of them would be nice, but even if they never added one thing on that list it wouldn't matter one way or the other. Also... People seem to forget that most of WoWs functionality came from player made add ons, not from the devs themselves. Just like it was up to the players to fix them when they broke every patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teradek Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It's not about a learn to play issue. Your guild has the first ops on farm says nothing since it's super easy content. Then why do you need all that junk if its super easy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taurusaud Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The problem is that we have all been completely spoiled by another game engine that has had 7 years and over 100 million dollars every month in subscriptions at its peak to become finely tuned and polished. Except WoW never had the unresponsive UI that this game has, even 7 years ago. Next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OorahDoc Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You need a threat meter to know how much threat you and others are at, or would you rather just use your abilities randomly and hope for the best? Makes no sense. How are you supposed to know how the tank is doing if you have no threatmeter, if you take aggro, is it because you have alot of threat or because the tank have none? Just guess, hehe. You need a dps meter to see how you and others are performing. If you hit enrage timer on a boss for example, you check your damagemeter and you see that the other dps is doing barely half of yours, there you go that's the problem. Right now there is no way of knowing how you or others are performing, you just have to guess, which again, makes no sense. You think you have refined your rotation, most likely there are 10 others that are much better, yet again, you just guess and hope for the best. Could it be better? Yes. Does it need to be? If you want to succeed at anything, I has to be. Your comment about macros just proves how clueless you are. Currently the UI is very stupid with limited and few buttons. I have four abilities that have no GCD that I use together, this requires two to three seconds to activate because I am having to press 4 different binds aswell as game no having the best response time. With a macro I could put these into one button, making it easier and more effective aswell as saving 3 buttons where I could put other abilities to smoothen the gameplay. Macros are used to have two abilities on one key, using modifiers, very good and useful, say I want to use the same bind for different abilities? Just use macro modifier. You arguments are stupid and you proves how clueless you are. Guessing seems to be your soloution to everything. I play with people that I raided with in WoW, I know they're all good so no need to guess about anything. It takes you 2-3 seconds to click 4 buttons? Like i said earlier, i guess its hard to press buttons. Yes, the UI is clunky but this game not having addons will not be the downfall of this game because it makes the game unplayable, it will be the downfall of the game because idiots like you think it's a necessity. Once we get these addons you will be complaining that you don't have a Raid encounter addon, you know, easy mode tells you what's about to happen and when mods. **** and go back to WoW because obviously this game isn't your cup of tea. And by cup of tea, i mean Loot pinata and E-peen stroker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykologist Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Except WoW never had the unresponsive UI that this game has, even 7 years ago. Next! Preferences > Ability Queue > Set to 0.0 Next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racsofp Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Or maybe, this game will die without them. It's not about people not being able to play without them, obviously people can because everything is cleared. Another stupid "argument".Don't be silly...the game will not die because Zolthie can't function in super easy content without a threat meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudim Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Except WoW never had the unresponsive UI that this game has, even 7 years ago. Next! I remember the beginning of WoW when I had a dwarf hunter and I couldn't play because the autoattack wouldn't fire, so I had to use serpent sting and wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahlin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) WoW's combat engine had perfect response times on day 1. There were other issues, but the combat was always smooth as a baby's ***. Preferences > Ability Queue > Set to 0.0 Next! Has literally nothing to do with what's wrong with the system. Next. Edited January 5, 2012 by Ahlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Then why do you need all that junk if its super easy? People have been using player-made crutches for so long they expect them to be standard. Never mind that very few mmos include any of that beyond combat logs without addons, which most players never so much as glance at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHauntingBard Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I've been spoiled by EQ it had add ons.It also had luxury stuff like a combatlog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykologist Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 WoW's combat engine had perfect response times on day 1. There were other issues, but the combat was always smooth as a baby's ***. LOL. You must mean Burning Crusade launch. Because WoW certainly wasn't perfect response on day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Makes perfect sense. Know your rotation (which is not "using abilities randomly"), know what your abilities do. I know a Flame Burst won't generate a ton of threat. I know a Flamethrower will definitely pull aggro. Who cares how others are performing? If the boss is taking a long time to die, DPS needs to step it up. If the tank is taking a ton of damage, the healers need to step it up. Damage Meters just give you a reason to point the finger and not take the blame. Again, not a "need" (well, unless you're an elitest *****) It's called trial and error. Also it's called the "class forum boards." Plenty of discussions on rotations and *gasp* TRIAL AND ERROR happening there, sparking conversation and community involvement between the classes. Macros aren't needed. The UI is bounds better at release than any other MMO You just lost all credibility here. You can't even move the thing Sweet. Maybe you should make a program that plays the game for you too? That's called laziness. Not "need for macros" And your arguments are based on the fact that you either a) Want to put as minimal effort as possible into your gaming b) A crutch I know what I might be doing, but what about the DPS going all out, dropping cool-downs like there is no tomorrow? I guess I'll know when something is going to get pulled off when it does and Deeps die. Or maybe the tank isn't using cooldowns appropriately and it has nothing to do with the healer. Or I have a number of DPS guys and I guess I'll just guess randomly as to who isn;t pulling their weight. Or I guess I could also use them to determine things like what killed us or whether or not the healer is over-healing too much and wasting Mana/Focus/etc Since when did elitest = someone who wants to optimize their gameplay Strawman. Addons/macros =/= bots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pocketthesaurus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 i dunno, i remember wow's combat/gameplay being way more fun at launch than this game's Rose-tinted goggles. WoW was horrible in all aspects at launch. It really became refined when they released BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Rose-tinted goggles. WoW was horrible in all aspects at launch. It really became refined when they released BC. Wrong. The main issue at launch was they had waaaaay more people than they thought they were going to get and the servers couldn't handle it. Crashes and Ques were the order of the day. Other than that the game was great. 12/4/2004 Gamespy review of WOW. 11 days after launch. Summary: The worst part of reviewing any MMO is that, because of their huge size, it's impossible to discuss every little nuance in the space of one review. As I look back over the things that really impressed me about the game, I realize that I haven't said a world about the beautiful simplicity of the game's interface. I haven't gone over the excellent auction system, or how brilliant the concept of an in-game mail system is. I haven't talked about the great NPC voices, or the music. I haven't gone over about a million little "Wow, they thought of everything!" details that demonstrate time and again just how good Blizzard is at designing games. That, alas, is the nature of discussing such a huge subject in a finite space. Suffice it to say, though, that if you're a Blizzard fan, you will want to play this game. If you're a fan of MMOs, you'll want to play this game. If you're not a fan of MMOs, but are a fan of great games, you will want to play this game. Hell, if you're a gamer who's ever wanted to pull another person into the hobby, you'll want to play this game and share it with a non-gamer friend. Blizzard has once again lived up to and surpassed its reputation as one of the finest game developers on the planet. World of Warcraft is a stunning achievement destined to be become a classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McAvinue Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The problem is that we have all been completely spoiled by another game engine that has had 7 years and over 100 million dollars every month in subscriptions at its peak to become finely tuned and polished. Before we got so spoiled, the current condition of SW:ToR was more than acceptable for a newly released MMO. Back when WoW and EQ2 were first released, this was standard. We expected it. In either of those games, there were plenty of bugs, and when they released a new patch to fix 3 things, they usually broke 5 other things. Did we care back then? Nope. Sure it was annoying, but there wasn't anything out there that didn't have the same thing going on, so we just accepted it and had fun playing. Now, we have become used to a nearly flawless game engine that is the product of years of work and a ridiculous amount of money. I'm simply referring to the game engine, not your opinion of the game content or design. I know we all like to hate on WoW. If we didn't, that's where we would still be. But lets face it, it IS the standard when it comes to MMO's, and it makes any new MMO look bad in comparison simply because no other newly released MMO could possibly launch with all the features and polish that the game engine has. That takes time and money. Any MMO could reach that level of polish and stability. It's just up to the player base to stick with it and fund it. I think SW:ToR is a great game for just being released, and I think it has great potential to become even better... but only if we give it the time and the money to allow it to do so. If that is true why was Rift's launch so much better than this ones? Or that they came out with patches to fix the games problems faster? Try comparing TOR to games that came out this year alone, and your analysis fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krabcakes Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Yeah...I mean who expects their modern car to be better than a 1972 POS?! Edited January 5, 2012 by Krabcakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykologist Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Wrong. The main issue at launch was they had waaaaay more people than they thought they were going to get and the servers couldn't handle it. Crashes and Ques were the order of the day. Other than that the game was great. 12/4/2004 Gamespy review of WOW. 11 days after launch. Summary: The worst part of reviewing any MMO is that, because of their huge size, it's impossible to discuss every little nuance in the space of one review. As I look back over the things that really impressed me about the game, I realize that I haven't said a world about the beautiful simplicity of the game's interface. I haven't gone over the excellent auction system, or how brilliant the concept of an in-game mail system is. I haven't talked about the great NPC voices, or the music. I haven't gone over about a million little "Wow, they thought of everything!" details that demonstrate time and again just how good Blizzard is at designing games. That, alas, is the nature of discussing such a huge subject in a finite space. Suffice it to say, though, that if you're a Blizzard fan, you will want to play this game. If you're a fan of MMOs, you'll want to play this game. If you're not a fan of MMOs, but are a fan of great games, you will want to play this game. Hell, if you're a gamer who's ever wanted to pull another person into the hobby, you'll want to play this game and share it with a non-gamer friend. Blizzard has once again lived up to and surpassed its reputation as one of the finest game developers on the planet. World of Warcraft is a stunning achievement destined to be become a classic. You mean aside from glitching mobs, falling through the ground, items disappearing, server rollbacks, ability lag, being stuck in looting, classes with NO talent trees, abilities not even working, graphical tearing. But hey! It had a combat log! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedDjinn Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If that is true why was Rift's launch so much better than this ones? Or that they came out with patches to fix the games problems faster? Try comparing TOR to games that came out this year alone, and your analysis fails. It wasn't. This was, objectively, the most successful launch in mmo history. Whether it will be a success long term remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Githadys Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 He makes a good point you have to admit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolthie Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 It must be fun in Delusionville. You just said you know your rotation, yet argued prior that "how could you possibly know your rotation without threat or damage meters!" Totally clueless here. Except my first MMO wasn't WoW, and I played as "Threat meter" and "Damage Meter" were added to the game after guilds successfully cleared Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, etc. ****, you should call up SOE and tell them they did it wrong all those years in EQ without a threat meter, or damager meter, or macros (you know, that game based primarily on PVE and raiding?) I know my rotation for this current spec, why? Because of theorycrafting with numbers. Do I know if it's actually good or if there are any better? No, but I went with this one, and now I know it. There's no way to tell if its good or bad, I'll just have to guess, that seems you be your mantra. There's a reason EQ and all the other MMOs died, just saying. Just because EQ didn't have these, does that mean you don't need them? No. You seem to forget that EQ is very very old aswell, we live in 2012 now, you seem to live in 99. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyvian Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 No, the developers are the problem. No target of target No threat system No threat meter No damage meter No macros No combat logs We are not spoiled if we would have these, these are a few of the ingredients to creating a successful MMO. These things among others are a necessity. Without key things being in a MMO, launched in 2011 with 6+ years of work put into it, why would people fund it? Makes no sense. I'll grant you the combat log point, but no more. The rest is fluff and will come in time, probably very soon with how many people are probably already writing add-on programs now. Honestly, the game is basically playable. However, there are a few key things that IMO should be standard for a launch in this day. Customizing the UI: Resizing the UI More Hot Bars Placement of Hot Bars Moving all UI components to prefered locations Chat: System Messages in multiple categories for more precise on/off choices These are just two areas that concern me at this point in the game. These are also things that should be standard IMO. Any other issues I have with the game at this point aren't really included in this individual thread (response delays, too many quest cut-scenes, companion constantly in my way). All in all, this has been a very smooth launch. I just expected more to be included for a game coming out at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lueckjathom Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 ********. Rift did not have 100million a month or whatever figure you said, nor 7 years. and it managed to be innovative and create a fully featured MMO. Rift did not launch with all of the features that people are griping about this game not having. It also had very basic and lackluster content in terms of questing. It was innovative in terms of it's class system, you are right. Just like SW:ToR is innovative in story, companions, and crafting. It took Rift a year to get support for addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OorahDoc Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yeah...I mean who expects their modern car to be better than a 1972 POS?! Love the signature pic, hahahah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) No, the developers are the problem. No target of target No threat system No threat meter No damage meter No macros No combat logs We are not spoiled if we would have these, these are a few of the ingredients to creating a successful MMO. These things among others are a necessity. Without key things being in a MMO, launched in 2011 with 6+ years of work put into it, why would people fund it? Makes no sense.LOL. You're teasing right? Want a fair comparison? Delete everything not "Blizzard_" from the add-ons folder then spend 8 hours in Dragon Soul with your closest friends. Just give spectators enough time to dawn their Cool Rays to prevent permanent eye damage from the explosion. Edited January 5, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHauntingBard Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Rose-tinted goggles. WoW was horrible in all aspects at launch. It really became refined when they released BC. Yes and no. WOW was a terrible mess when it came to class balance and class design. Even gear was just horrible, like agility on a mage set. Now SWTOR talent trees look better organized, but the balance seems not good. How ever we can't be 100% sure since Bioware doesn't allow a combatlog. WOW had better character responsive time (setting it to 0 doesn't fix it for SWTOR) If I am perfectly honest WOW lacked a lot of things, it was clunky. How ever Blizzard put a lot of effort into it , a part of the credit goes to the modding/theory crafting community as well (just like both did a lot for Starcraft) I've always felt like they wanted to make their product work , make their fan base happy and earn money. I don't have this with Bioware. Blizzard tried failed sometimes and succeed other times, they never had a MMO that showed how to do it right. They went their own way. Bioware could have learned a lot of lessons from WOW. The best thing is improve what makes WOW bad (that's what Blizzard did with EQ and such), but they didn't instead they made the same mistakes as WOW. Even worse they failed to learn from WOW/Rift and such what people appreciated. Good UI is one for example. Bottom line if you try to copy a game do it right. If you want to make WOW with light sabers you got my blessing but put the features in game that suit a game like that. Edited January 5, 2012 by TheHauntingBard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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